European Club Rugby
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@steven-harris said in NH club rugby:
@pot-hale thanks for your insight,Will agree to disagree on some of your points however I do have a couple of questions for you..?
I have always watched many NZ players that have headed to the North to persue professional careeres.
It’s almost like some have embraced the challenge as you have mentioned ,and others it’s almost like the have just used it to pick up a big cheque and see out their careers.
Is that a perception with a lot of rugby followers in the North..?Those were the Walrus's points. Not Pot Hale's.
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yeah I think some players do go north and maintain thier own high standards, while others do see it as building thier retirement nest egg.
Dont get me wrong I think they still give it thier all, but if they have spent the last 10-12 years working thier arses off to be an AB, now without that carrot, the drive just drops off 5%, and we keep getting told there is only a few % between the top players, then that 5% drop off in intensity or lack of desire will be telling.I look at someone like Ranger, when he was in the Blues last year, was poor, and then came back to Northland and recaptured some of his form (yeah yeah albeit at a lower level) but on talking to him and those that know him, his heart is in Northland, so being part of NH (and when in France) his play has regressed so far that he didnt even get a super contract...now he is struggling to get game time in France.
Have heard the odd whisper that he may even be leaving French rugby again.,,be interesting if he came back here again to see what happens (was speaking to a ferner yesterday and he suggested he might end up in Japan for the Sunwolves...which would be great as he could be back playing for Northland if that was the case
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@taniwharugby personally I think Japan is a better fit for some NZ players,especially if they want to keep their standards high,the season in Japan is quite short which still leaves the opportunity to play Super Rugby.
In the case of Ranger whilst he is currently injured,he seems to have fallen out of favour in terms of even making the match day 23 at La Rochelle.looking very similar to his stint at Montpellier.
A good result for the Taniwha,would be a contract with the Sunwolves which would leave a window for Mitre 10 Cup. -
@taniwharugby said in NH club rugby:
yeah I think some players do go north and maintain thier own high standards, while others do see it as building thier retirement nest egg.
Dont get me wrong I think they still give it thier all, but if they have spent the last 10-12 years working thier arses off to be an AB, now without that carrot, the drive just drops off 5%, and we keep getting told there is only a few % between the top players, then that 5% drop off in intensity or lack of desire will be telling.I look at someone like Ranger, when he was in the Blues last year, was poor, and then came back to Northland and recaptured some of his form (yeah yeah albeit at a lower level) but on talking to him and those that know him, his heart is in Northland, so being part of NH (and when in France) his play has regressed so far that he didnt even get a super contract...now he is struggling to get game time in France.
Have heard the odd whisper that he may even be leaving French rugby again.,,be interesting if he came back here again to see what happens (was speaking to a ferner yesterday and he suggested he might end up in Japan for the Sunwolves...which would be great as he could be back playing for Northland if that was the case
Some do well, some don’t. And those that do don’t have to be big name stars. Hayden Triggs finished two years at Leinster last year. He had a terrible family tragedy whilst here with the loss of a child at birth. But he and his wife stayed and looked to get on with life. Triggs was superb in my view, never gave an inch in any match he played. I was in the RDS for his last match that he started as usual. He was subbed with ten minutes to go. The entire ground stood up and clapped him off the pitch. Sterling guy.
Scott Fardy has been brilliant even at 34. Rocky Elsom. Isa Nacewa. Jim Williams. Shaun Payne. Some might dub them journeymen but give me a guy who puts 80 mins into each match any day over someone who’s fading in and out of matches looking like they don’t give a shit at times as was my view of Piutau for some time.
It also matters which comp they play in. The experienced ones who come to Ireland are given a specific mentoring role as,part of their contract. Foreign NIE contracts don’t get renewed - in a sense they’re there to help put themselves out of a contract.
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@pot-hale well I think it seemed form the outset Piutau was driven by the money, so for him to then be viewed as not giving a shit, then is that surprising?
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@taniwharugby said in NH club rugby:
@pot-hale well I think it seemed form the outset Piutau was driven by the money, so for him to then be viewed as not giving a shit, then is that surprising?
Maybe not. It’s disappointing all the same. When I see guys like Nacewa and Triggs put their heart into everything and probably not rewarded as well, it pisses me off. I have a thing for honest endeavor I suppose. Strauss, Payne, Aki and Stander tick the boxes on those too. I admire their commitment.
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@rapido said in NH club rugby:
@steven-harris said in NH club rugby:
@pot-hale thanks for your insight,Will agree to disagree on some of your points however I do have a couple of questions for you..?
I have always watched many NZ players that have headed to the North to persue professional careeres.
It’s almost like some have embraced the challenge as you have mentioned ,and others it’s almost like the have just used it to pick up a big cheque and see out their careers.
Is that a perception with a lot of rugby followers in the North..?Those were the Walrus's points. Not Pot Hale's.
When I first read it I thought it was Pot Hale's too - I thought, damn that's ban-able trolling (even posting it should probably be a yellow card and trip to the judiciary
). Same old same old for Jones, but because he's pay walled now he has to be even more outrageous to try and catch the NZ Herald's eye so they'll print parts of the story. -
@nepia said in NH club rugby:
@rapido said in NH club rugby:
@steven-harris said in NH club rugby:
@pot-hale thanks for your insight,Will agree to disagree on some of your points however I do have a couple of questions for you..?
I have always watched many NZ players that have headed to the North to persue professional careeres.
It’s almost like some have embraced the challenge as you have mentioned ,and others it’s almost like the have just used it to pick up a big cheque and see out their careers.
Is that a perception with a lot of rugby followers in the North..?Those were the Walrus's points. Not Pot Hale's.
When I first read it I thought it was Pot Hale's too - I thought, damn that's ban-able trolling (even posting it should probably be a yellow card and trip to the judiciary
). Same old same old for Jones, but because he's pay walled now he has to be even more outrageous to try and catch the NZ Herald's eye so they'll print parts of the story.Errr why would I be trolling the PRO14 and Leinster?
It’s standard stuff from Jones on both topics.
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@pot-hale said in NH club rugby:
@nepia said in NH club rugby:
@rapido said in NH club rugby:
@steven-harris said in NH club rugby:
@pot-hale thanks for your insight,Will agree to disagree on some of your points however I do have a couple of questions for you..?
I have always watched many NZ players that have headed to the North to persue professional careeres.
It’s almost like some have embraced the challenge as you have mentioned ,and others it’s almost like the have just used it to pick up a big cheque and see out their careers.
Is that a perception with a lot of rugby followers in the North..?Those were the Walrus's points. Not Pot Hale's.
When I first read it I thought it was Pot Hale's too - I thought, damn that's ban-able trolling (even posting it should probably be a yellow card and trip to the judiciary
). Same old same old for Jones, but because he's pay walled now he has to be even more outrageous to try and catch the NZ Herald's eye so they'll print parts of the story.Errr why would I be trolling the PRO14 and Leinster?
It’s standard stuff from Jones on both topics.
I skim read right to the middle of it - missed your opening sentences.
So he hates you guys as much as us?
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@pot-hale it's easy for us to sit here and say how we would act...I can say if I was in the position I wouldnt turn down an AB jersey for Euro money...but then I have never actually been in teh position to have to make the decision, and I guess if you worked towards something, while the extra euros/pounds/dollars make you feel better, leaving behind a dream must take a little bit away from you.
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@taniwharugby said in NH club rugby:
@pot-hale it's easy for us to sit here and say how we would act...I can say if I was in the position I wouldnt turn down an AB jersey for Euro money...but then I have never actually been in teh position to have to make the decision, and I guess if you worked towards something, while the extra euros/pounds/dollars make you feel better, leaving behind a dream must take a little bit away from you.
+1
Jobs are easy to come by, Caps not so much
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News emerging today that 2-3 more SA teams will join PRO14 in two years time with at least three in place for 2020/21 season. Natal-based Sharks to lead the way with Lions and Stormers to follow.
If it reaches 18 teams then it’s possible that three conferences would be created with IRFU, WRU and SARU teams anchoring each one.
SARU would probably join the 3 Celtic shareholders in Celtic Rugby DAC who own the PRO Rugby competition.
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Lets row the boat back a bit there. An unsubstantiated report has appeared in Walesonline making such claims. Click bait at present.
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@pot-hale we have a cool pool format you could use
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@rapido said in NH club rugby:
@steven-harris said in NH club rugby:
@pot-hale thanks for your insight,Will agree to disagree on some of your points however I do have a couple of questions for you..?
I have always watched many NZ players that have headed to the North to persue professional careeres.
It’s almost like some have embraced the challenge as you have mentioned ,and others it’s almost like the have just used it to pick up a big cheque and see out their careers.
Is that a perception with a lot of rugby followers in the North..?Those were the Walrus's points. Not Pot Hale's.
I glanced at it and have only just now realised it was Walrus not @Pot-Hale
Was thinking it was rather over provocative from our Irish friend ...
Knowing it was Jones means I can safely file as verbal sewage, ignore, flush the dunny and move on.
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@booboo said in NH club rugby:
@rapido said in NH club rugby:
@steven-harris said in NH club rugby:
@pot-hale thanks for your insight,Will agree to disagree on some of your points however I do have a couple of questions for you..?
I have always watched many NZ players that have headed to the North to persue professional careeres.
It’s almost like some have embraced the challenge as you have mentioned ,and others it’s almost like the have just used it to pick up a big cheque and see out their careers.
Is that a perception with a lot of rugby followers in the North..?Those were the Walrus's points. Not Pot Hale's.
I glanced at it and have only just now realised it was Walrus not @Pot-Hale
Was thinking it was rather over provocative from our Irish friend ...
Knowing it was Jones means I can safely file as verbal sewage, ignore, flush the dunny and move on.
The real learning form this incursion of walrusitis is that @Steven-Harris, thinking it was @Pot-Hale's verbal sewerage, is extremely polite when disagreeing .....
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@pot-hale said in NH club rugby:
News emerging today that 2-3 more SA teams will join PRO14 in two years time with at least three in place for 2020/21 season. Natal-based Sharks to lead the way with Lions and Stormers to follow.
If it reaches 18 teams then it’s possible that three conferences would be created with IRFU, WRU and SARU teams anchoring each one.
SARU would probably join the 3 Celtic shareholders in Celtic Rugby DAC who own the PRO Rugby competition.
Not sure how I'd feel about this.
The Saffa teams are just starting to get interesting again.
Yet, a Trans- Ta$man or South Pacific based comp would be good (for me) if NZ more teams (7, split the Blues into South of the Harbour and North of the Harbour, split provincial Hurricanes from Wellington).
But, Australian teams are so poor at the moment. I would resolve this by not restricing All Black selection from Australian teams allowing some transfer of talent to Australia, until they rebuild their depth & interest ....
God knows what it would mean to Jaguares and Sunwolves. Without the Saffas I don't think the Jaguares remain viable. Unless ......
I'm not a huge fan of the comp crossing the hemisphere into Japan, although I feel if the Saffas go then rump-SANZAR would probably actually go further down this route and bring in North America. Whereas I would actually prefer a smaller same season, sameish timezone South pacific comp. Less travel, better viewing times, more local relevance.
7 NZ teams
4 Aus
1 Pacific
12 teams in totalor
6 NZ teams
5 Aus
1 Pacificor
7 NZ teams
5 Aus
0 PacificA Pacific team, based in Suva, with a mandate to employ most of their players from those committed to the 3 PI nations would be great I think, but would require either outside private ownership or outside subsidisation.
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@rapido said in NH club rugby:
Yet, a Trans- Ta$man or South Pacific based comp would be good (for me) if NZ more teams (7, split the Blues into South of the Harbour and North of the Harbour, split provincial Hurricanes from Wellington)
Central Vikings?
NZRU doesn't seem to want more pro sides. However it could be an opportunity to link the franchises back to their NPC unions more. 14 NPC sides, 2 NPC sides per franchise.
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@duluth said in NH club rugby:
@rapido said in NH club rugby:
Yet, a Trans- Ta$man or South Pacific based comp would be good (for me) if NZ more teams (7, split the Blues into South of the Harbour and North of the Harbour, split provincial Hurricanes from Wellington)
Central Vikings?
NZRU doesn't seem to want more pro sides. However it could be an opportunity to link the franchises back to their NPC unions more. 14 NPC sides, 2 NPC sides per franchise.
Yeah, that would fit quite well. Only difficult one (geographically) would be probably Wellington plus one other of the 3 Canes NPC teams. Would probably link Wellington and Hawkes Bay.
Just ignoring the ridiculous Tarankai switcheroo to the Chiefs.
Poor old Manawatu can be lumbered with that cursed union .....
NZRU doesn't seem to want more pro sides
Yeah, they don't seem to.
If it retracts, they won't have much choice.
If it just switches to Pacific + Americas Super Comp then they will want to remain at 5.I do think the NZRU have been guilty of ignoring paying crowds when doing their financials.
I think they underestimate having say 7 x 18,000 ave crowds rather than 5 X x,000.
Having all games in timezone for overall TV Rights value for the NZ and Aus market.
Having enough NZ games each weekend that one or two are played in an afternoon slot rather than every pro game being at 7:30 so capturing the kids and families market (and ensuring there's actually still a market in 20 years time ....). AT the moment we even sometimes get a situation in SR that there is only 1 NZ game in a weekend (NZ derby on a Friday night, 1 team on a bye, 2 other teams playing overseas - meaning 7:30 sat night is vacant etc)
At the moment their market is quite narrow.
- TV = Adults or adults with older kids, with sky, probably with either 2 TVs or a rugby interested spouse.
- Attendance = Adults, after work drinks crowd, Families with older kids. Only those 'travelling' from immediate surroundings due to late finishes.
This may not, probably won't, make up for the immediate loss of SA TV money. But there are other revenue sources that are sacrificed in NZ to meet the narrow confines of only 5 teams.
