Eden Park
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@nzzp said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@canefan said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
Here we go again
I, for one, think we should have a goddamn long term plan for accommodating multiple professional sports team in teh Auckland region.
People jus tneed to make smart decisions, and bring fans along for the ride. Warriors don't want to go to Eden Park. I don't blame them. I love Eden Park when full, but it's a soulless, poorly designed monstrosity otherwise. It sucks for cricket (short form).
Transport links are all to the city centre. Pubs are all in the city centre. A good stadium down there would be amazingballs.
If they built a purpose built stadium for code, that could also house concerts downtown they just need a main ground for cricket. Eden Park and Mt Smart ultimately become secondary venues. Am i right that the eden park trust is a separate entity from the council anyway? There was talk of developing Western Springs but the parking is terrible.
@canefan said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
If they built a purpose built stadium for code, that could also house concerts downtown they just need a main ground for cricket. Eden Park and Mt Smart ultimately become secondary venues. Am i right that the eden park trust is a separate entity from the council anyway? There was talk of developing Western Springs but the parking is terrible.
If you develop downtown, EdeN park becomes defunct and you probably sell it.
Google shows me that it is around 380 x 650 m, or around 247,000m2. Not sure fo the zoning, but with the transport links it's goign to be able to developed as high intensity housing. If yo ucan get $1k/m2, you're talking $250M or so. That gets you a very long way towards a new stadium downtown, and a cricket facility somewhere else. Shows teh folly of pumping money into Eden Park over the last 20 years, with masterplanning that can't even get a concourse on one level around the stadium.
Obviously, this ignores the issue of it being owned by a private trust, but is posted for discussion
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@canefan said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
If they built a purpose built stadium for code, that could also house concerts downtown they just need a main ground for cricket. Eden Park and Mt Smart ultimately become secondary venues. Am i right that the eden park trust is a separate entity from the council anyway? There was talk of developing Western Springs but the parking is terrible.
If you develop downtown, EdeN park becomes defunct and you probably sell it.
Google shows me that it is around 380 x 650 m, or around 247,000m2. Not sure fo the zoning, but with the transport links it's goign to be able to developed as high intensity housing. If yo ucan get $1k/m2, you're talking $250M or so. That gets you a very long way towards a new stadium downtown, and a cricket facility somewhere else. Shows teh folly of pumping money into Eden Park over the last 20 years, with masterplanning that can't even get a concourse on one level around the stadium.
Obviously, this ignores the issue of it being owned by a private trust, but is posted for discussion
@nzzp said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@canefan said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
If they built a purpose built stadium for code, that could also house concerts downtown they just need a main ground for cricket. Eden Park and Mt Smart ultimately become secondary venues. Am i right that the eden park trust is a separate entity from the council anyway? There was talk of developing Western Springs but the parking is terrible.
If you develop downtown, EdeN park becomes defunct and you probably sell it.
Google shows me that it is around 380 x 650 m, or around 247,000m2. Not sure fo the zoning, but with the transport links it's goign to be able to developed as high intensity housing. If yo ucan get $1k/m2, you're talking $250M or so. That gets you a very long way towards a new stadium downtown, and a cricket facility somewhere else. Shows teh folly of pumping money into Eden Park over the last 20 years, with masterplanning that can't even get a concourse on one level around the stadium.
Obviously, this ignores the issue of it being owned by a private trust, but is posted for discussion
My thoughts exactly. But I was unsure how their ownership structure works. Who are the eden park trust, and if the funding dried up and they sold, who gets the money, the council or the trust?
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@nzzp said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@canefan said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
If they built a purpose built stadium for code, that could also house concerts downtown they just need a main ground for cricket. Eden Park and Mt Smart ultimately become secondary venues. Am i right that the eden park trust is a separate entity from the council anyway? There was talk of developing Western Springs but the parking is terrible.
If you develop downtown, EdeN park becomes defunct and you probably sell it.
Google shows me that it is around 380 x 650 m, or around 247,000m2. Not sure fo the zoning, but with the transport links it's goign to be able to developed as high intensity housing. If yo ucan get $1k/m2, you're talking $250M or so. That gets you a very long way towards a new stadium downtown, and a cricket facility somewhere else. Shows teh folly of pumping money into Eden Park over the last 20 years, with masterplanning that can't even get a concourse on one level around the stadium.
Obviously, this ignores the issue of it being owned by a private trust, but is posted for discussion
My thoughts exactly. But I was unsure how their ownership structure works. Who are the eden park trust, and if the funding dried up and they sold, who gets the money, the council or the trust?
@canefan said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
My thoughts exactly. But I was unsure how their ownership structure works. Who are the eden park trust, and if the funding dried up and they sold, who gets the money, the council or the trust?
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@canefan said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
My thoughts exactly. But I was unsure how their ownership structure works. Who are the eden park trust, and if the funding dried up and they sold, who gets the money, the council or the trust?
@canefan it sounds like the trust is a bit farked
"Despite the very generous financial contributions from the government and the council, Eden Park does not have a viable long-term future as it is not able to fund depreciation or pay down its debt while its operating environment remains constrained... we do not believe Eden Park can trade its way out of the current situation without ongoing financial support from either the government or the Council, and even then the stadium will continue to have limited use.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11888811
Basically they are losing money operationally, even without considering depreciation. Not viable long term. Amazing that we as taxpayers pumped a couple of hundred million into it a few years ago.
also, for the leagle beagles amongst us:
http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/private/1955/0003/latest/DLM102010.htmland from Schedule 1
The Objects for which the Trust is continued are:
(a)
To promote, operate and develop Eden Park as a high quality multi-purpose stadium for the use and benefit of rugby and cricket (including under the organisations of ARU and ACA respectively pursuant to their rights under this deed) as well as other sporting codes and other recreational, musical, and cultural events for the benefit of the public of the Region; and
(b)
To administer Eden Park and the Trust Assets on a prudent commercial basis so that Eden Park is a successful financially autonomous community asset.
4.2
In promoting, operating and developing Eden Park, the Trustees in fulfilling the Trustees’ duties as prescribed by this deed will have due regard to the needs of, and contributions made by, and historical interests of, ARU and ACA, and the contributions of the Crown, and shall make relevant determinations as regards use and access to Eden Park in implementing the Objects based on these and all other relevant circumstances which the Trustees shall in their discretion deem appropriate. -
@canefan it sounds like the trust is a bit farked
"Despite the very generous financial contributions from the government and the council, Eden Park does not have a viable long-term future as it is not able to fund depreciation or pay down its debt while its operating environment remains constrained... we do not believe Eden Park can trade its way out of the current situation without ongoing financial support from either the government or the Council, and even then the stadium will continue to have limited use.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11888811
Basically they are losing money operationally, even without considering depreciation. Not viable long term. Amazing that we as taxpayers pumped a couple of hundred million into it a few years ago.
also, for the leagle beagles amongst us:
http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/private/1955/0003/latest/DLM102010.htmland from Schedule 1
The Objects for which the Trust is continued are:
(a)
To promote, operate and develop Eden Park as a high quality multi-purpose stadium for the use and benefit of rugby and cricket (including under the organisations of ARU and ACA respectively pursuant to their rights under this deed) as well as other sporting codes and other recreational, musical, and cultural events for the benefit of the public of the Region; and
(b)
To administer Eden Park and the Trust Assets on a prudent commercial basis so that Eden Park is a successful financially autonomous community asset.
4.2
In promoting, operating and developing Eden Park, the Trustees in fulfilling the Trustees’ duties as prescribed by this deed will have due regard to the needs of, and contributions made by, and historical interests of, ARU and ACA, and the contributions of the Crown, and shall make relevant determinations as regards use and access to Eden Park in implementing the Objects based on these and all other relevant circumstances which the Trustees shall in their discretion deem appropriate.@nzzp said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@canefan it sounds like the trust is a bit farked
"Despite the very generous financial contributions from the government and the council, Eden Park does not have a viable long-term future as it is not able to fund depreciation or pay down its debt while its operating environment remains constrained... we do not believe Eden Park can trade its way out of the current situation without ongoing financial support from either the government or the Council, and even then the stadium will continue to have limited use.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11888811
Basically they are losing money operationally, even without considering depreciation. Not viable long term. Amazing that we as taxpayers pumped a couple of hundred million into it a few years ago.
also, for the leagle beagles amongst us:
http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/private/1955/0003/latest/DLM102010.htmland from Schedule 1
The Objects for which the Trust is continued are:
(a)
To promote, operate and develop Eden Park as a high quality multi-purpose stadium for the use and benefit of rugby and cricket (including under the organisations of ARU and ACA respectively pursuant to their rights under this deed) as well as other sporting codes and other recreational, musical, and cultural events for the benefit of the public of the Region; and
(b)
To administer Eden Park and the Trust Assets on a prudent commercial basis so that Eden Park is a successful financially autonomous community asset.
4.2
In promoting, operating and developing Eden Park, the Trustees in fulfilling the Trustees’ duties as prescribed by this deed will have due regard to the needs of, and contributions made by, and historical interests of, ARU and ACA, and the contributions of the Crown, and shall make relevant determinations as regards use and access to Eden Park in implementing the Objects based on these and all other relevant circumstances which the Trustees shall in their discretion deem appropriate.Right, so they can sell off the land just like they did in Wellington. The land around there is worth heaps, will be a significant chunk of the cost. Perhaps the government can designate EP a kiwi build site and pay over the odds for it? The EP residents association will be thrilled with all that construction for a few years, and the traffic, the consolation is their house prices will continue to rise
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The drums continue to beat for the end of EP. Speedway at waikaraka park, cricket at Western Springs, code and concerts at a new purpose built stadium. Sorted.
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The drums continue to beat for the end of EP. Speedway at waikaraka park, cricket at Western Springs, code and concerts at a new purpose built stadium. Sorted.
@canefan said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
The drums continue to beat for the end of EP. Speedway at waikaraka park, cricket at Western Springs, code and concerts at a new purpose built stadium. Sorted.
Hoorrraaahh!!! Western Springs is fairly easy to get to isn't it? Test Cricket at Eden park is just wrong.
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More evidence that the downtown stadium is just an ego project for Goff.
Cricket going to Western Springs is a good thing. Also it would also free up more event days for Eden Park
Eden Park is fine for Rugby. It's walking distance from the city and has a train station outside.
The North Stand is 20 years old and the South Stand isn't even 8 years old! I am extremely sceptical about the urgent need for $800 million in upgrades. That seems like a number Goff is throwing around to make the $1.5 billion new stadium appear more reasonable.Could something better be built for $1.5 billion? Of course. Thats a lot of ratepayer/taxpayer money
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More evidence that the downtown stadium is just an ego project for Goff.
Cricket going to Western Springs is a good thing. Also it would also free up more event days for Eden Park
Eden Park is fine for Rugby. It's walking distance from the city and has a train station outside.
The North Stand is 20 years old and the South Stand isn't even 8 years old! I am extremely sceptical about the urgent need for $800 million in upgrades. That seems like a number Goff is throwing around to make the $1.5 billion new stadium appear more reasonable.Could something better be built for $1.5 billion? Of course. Thats a lot of ratepayer/taxpayer money
@duluth said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
Could something better be built for $1.5 billion. Of course. Thats a lot of ratepayer/taxpayer money
The Cake Tin cost $130M in late 90's dollars.
$1.5B is if you have unilimited amounts of other peoples money to throw around. Like Phil does.
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More evidence that the downtown stadium is just an ego project for Goff.
Cricket going to Western Springs is a good thing. Also it would also free up more event days for Eden Park
Eden Park is fine for Rugby. It's walking distance from the city and has a train station outside.
The North Stand is 20 years old and the South Stand isn't even 8 years old! I am extremely sceptical about the urgent need for $800 million in upgrades. That seems like a number Goff is throwing around to make the $1.5 billion new stadium appear more reasonable.Could something better be built for $1.5 billion? Of course. Thats a lot of ratepayer/taxpayer money
@duluth said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
More evidence that the downtown stadium is just an ego project for Goff.
Cricket going to Western Springs is a good thing. Also it would also free up more event days for Eden Park
Eden Park is fine for Rugby. It's walking distance from the city and has a train station outside.
The North Stand is 20 years old and the South Stand isn't even 8 years old! I am extremely sceptical about the urgent need for $800 million in upgrades. That seems like a number Goff is throwing around to make the $1.5 billion new stadium appear more reasonable.Could something better be built for $1.5 billion. Of course. Thats a lot of ratepayer/taxpayer money
It's all cool bruv, it will be covered by the petrol tax.
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@duluth said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
More evidence that the downtown stadium is just an ego project for Goff.
Cricket going to Western Springs is a good thing. Also it would also free up more event days for Eden Park
Eden Park is fine for Rugby. It's walking distance from the city and has a train station outside.
The North Stand is 20 years old and the South Stand isn't even 8 years old! I am extremely sceptical about the urgent need for $800 million in upgrades. That seems like a number Goff is throwing around to make the $1.5 billion new stadium appear more reasonable.Could something better be built for $1.5 billion. Of course. Thats a lot of ratepayer/taxpayer money
It's all cool bruv, it will be covered by the petrol tax.
@hooroo said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@duluth said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
More evidence that the downtown stadium is just an ego project for Goff.
Cricket going to Western Springs is a good thing. Also it would also free up more event days for Eden Park
Eden Park is fine for Rugby. It's walking distance from the city and has a train station outside.
The North Stand is 20 years old and the South Stand isn't even 8 years old! I am extremely sceptical about the urgent need for $800 million in upgrades. That seems like a number Goff is throwing around to make the $1.5 billion new stadium appear more reasonable.Could something better be built for $1.5 billion. Of course. Thats a lot of ratepayer/taxpayer money
It's all cool bruv, it will be covered by the petrol tax.
Am I going to get my rubbish collected, a sewerage system and sealed roads as well?
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@hooroo said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@duluth said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
More evidence that the downtown stadium is just an ego project for Goff.
Cricket going to Western Springs is a good thing. Also it would also free up more event days for Eden Park
Eden Park is fine for Rugby. It's walking distance from the city and has a train station outside.
The North Stand is 20 years old and the South Stand isn't even 8 years old! I am extremely sceptical about the urgent need for $800 million in upgrades. That seems like a number Goff is throwing around to make the $1.5 billion new stadium appear more reasonable.Could something better be built for $1.5 billion. Of course. Thats a lot of ratepayer/taxpayer money
It's all cool bruv, it will be covered by the petrol tax.
Am I going to get my rubbish collected, a sewerage system and sealed roads as well?
@snowy said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@hooroo said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@duluth said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
More evidence that the downtown stadium is just an ego project for Goff.
Cricket going to Western Springs is a good thing. Also it would also free up more event days for Eden Park
Eden Park is fine for Rugby. It's walking distance from the city and has a train station outside.
The North Stand is 20 years old and the South Stand isn't even 8 years old! I am extremely sceptical about the urgent need for $800 million in upgrades. That seems like a number Goff is throwing around to make the $1.5 billion new stadium appear more reasonable.Could something better be built for $1.5 billion. Of course. Thats a lot of ratepayer/taxpayer money
It's all cool bruv, it will be covered by the petrol tax.
Am I going to get my rubbish collected, a sewerage system and sealed roads as well?
When it becomes a great white elephant, it is purpose built for rubbish.....
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All the cases that are based on the development value of EP land ignore the significant outstanding debt,
@canefan Planning for parking at a sports venue is plain dumb. One of the main advantages of a CBD site is public transport access.
Getting to and from EP is piss easy. Actually better served than Western Springs although if there was a light rail station there that could change the dynamic. Both are city fringe anyway. To hear some talk they are in Kumeu or Papakura
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All the cases that are based on the development value of EP land ignore the significant outstanding debt,
@canefan Planning for parking at a sports venue is plain dumb. One of the main advantages of a CBD site is public transport access.
Getting to and from EP is piss easy. Actually better served than Western Springs although if there was a light rail station there that could change the dynamic. Both are city fringe anyway. To hear some talk they are in Kumeu or Papakura
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@dogmeat said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
To hear some talk they are in Kumeu or Papakura
Or Albany.
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All the cases that are based on the development value of EP land ignore the significant outstanding debt,
@canefan Planning for parking at a sports venue is plain dumb. One of the main advantages of a CBD site is public transport access.
Getting to and from EP is piss easy. Actually better served than Western Springs although if there was a light rail station there that could change the dynamic. Both are city fringe anyway. To hear some talk they are in Kumeu or Papakura
@dogmeat said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
Both are city fringe anyway. To hear some talk they are in Kumeu or Papakura
It gets repeated without any thought.
I live in the CBD. I go to every game. I walk every time unless its raining.
Then people that don't go to games, or aren't even from Auckland, tell me its too far away.
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@dogmeat said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
Both are city fringe anyway. To hear some talk they are in Kumeu or Papakura
It gets repeated without any thought.
I live in the CBD. I go to every game. I walk every time unless its raining.
Then people that don't go to games, or aren't even from Auckland, tell me its too far away.
@duluth said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@dogmeat said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
Both are city fringe anyway. To hear some talk they are in Kumeu or Papakura
It gets repeated without any thought.
I live in the CBD. I go to every game. I walk every time unless its raining.
Then people that don't go to games, or aren't even from Auckland, tell me its too far away.
Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with Eden park but I jst think it is poke for Test Cricket.
I agree, it's simple as to get to.
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Also, Eden Park would probably have a better perception if the rugby broadcast was filmed from the North Stand.
It sounds silly but if casual rugby fans were always looking at the 7.5 year old stand they might not be so eager to knock it down.
There's probably logistical reasons for it staying on the South side though (comms box etc)
