All Blacks v France Test #2
-
One thing to keep in mind when talking about them taking how a player lands into consideration is that removing that part is likely to just lead to harsher red cards because they would need a definition that fit situation like the one tonight (and worse) and ones where the player taken out doesn't get flipped dangerously but still gets taken out.
There needs to be a red card threshold somewhere otherwise you will get guys flying into a jumping player and claiming they were going for the ball by just throwing an arm up or watching the ball. The Boks did it lots in 08/09 and it was shit.
A modified card system and a more clearly defined set of tackle thresholds which are strictly and consistently applied is the only way out of this mess. Giving ref more freedom to pluck something out of their arse would only swing it another inconsistent direction.
-
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@pukunui said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
What a shit game, ruined by the red card.
Just on the card: it was red all day. Anyone who says otherwise hasn't been watching rugby for the last 5 years. Whether it SHOULD be red is a totally different discussion.Just listening to the post game conference and Shag's saying what a lot of people are; except in clear cases of deliberate foul play, make it yellow with automatic citing.
In effect, that's just raising the standard for red cards.
Yes. We know foul play when we see it.
Richard Loe gouging eyes or crushing someone nose, deliberate filth. Send him off.
Someone falling on their head in a contested kick, or fracturing their scull in 2 places while ducking into a double tackle? I, as a rugby 'consumer' don't fucking care. They're grown men voluntarily playing a contact sport . I can accept unwanted outcomes from genuine, or even passably genuine actions.
Find a way to make this sport work.
No matter how many Will Smith movies, BOD almost dieing, and Alistair Campbell's screechng journos who were putty in his hands .
Find a way, because this sport is getting shit.
@rapido said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@pukunui said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
What a shit game, ruined by the red card.
Just on the card: it was red all day. Anyone who says otherwise hasn't been watching rugby for the last 5 years. Whether it SHOULD be red is a totally different discussion.Just listening to the post game conference and Shag's saying what a lot of people are; except in clear cases of deliberate foul play, make it yellow with automatic citing.
In effect, that's just raising the standard for red cards.
Yes. We know foul play when we see it.
Richard Loe gouging eyes or crushing someone nose, deliberate filth. Send him off.
Someone falling on their head in a contested kick, or fracturing their scull in 2 places while ducking into a double tackle? I, as a rugby 'consumer' don't fucking care. They're grown men voluntarily playing a contact sport . I can accept unwanted outcomes from genuine, or even passably genuine actions.
Find a way to make this sport work.
No matter how many Will Smith movies, BOD almost dieing, and Alistair Campbell's screechng journos who were putty in his hands .
Find a way, because this sport is getting shit.
Maybe for these kind of 'behavioural change' issues they have stricter bans? Say any accidental or careless contact with a jumper is a penalty on the field but followed up with an automatic 8 week ban; no hearings, appeals, or exacerbating or mitigating factors. Just learn to time your run. Still a heavy disincentive for the player but without ruining the game.
-
@justanotherfan said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
How much do you pay the refs?
Fuck off. He never tried to catch the ball. Barret could have been seriously hurt. Stamp that shite out.
@baron-silas-greenback said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@justanotherfan said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
How much do you pay the refs?
Fuck off. He never tried to catch the ball. Barret could have been seriously hurt. Stamp that shite out.
Did you ban that idiot?
-
The small explosions you can hear all the way from the UK after that Red Card are from Stephen Jones brain....
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
The small explosions you can hear all the way from the UK after that Red Card are from Stephen Jones brain....
Oxymoron
-
Thats the difference between looking to make something happen for yourself (DMC) and looking to set up someone else (Reiko, ALB).
-
@dingo said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
Thats the difference between looking to make something happen for yourself (DMC) and looking to set up someone else (Reiko, ALB).
Eh? Who started that move and put Rieko into space?
@booboo said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@dingo said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
Thats the difference between looking to make something happen for yourself (DMC) and looking to set up someone else (Reiko, ALB).
Eh? Who started that move and put Rieko into space?
Yep, attracted two defenders and recognised it.
-
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@hydro11 said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
That sending off is correct under the rules but bloody harsh. The player is in a position to catch the ball, he just doesn't put himself in danger by jumping in the air. Meanwhile Beauden jumps on top of him and gets away with nothing.
What drugs are you on? Beaudy was in the air when Fall arrived.
@shadowtrooper said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
Shit Cane gonna go for that
Lucky Parra didn't land on his head.
Huh? That's exactly my point. Beauden puts himself in a dangerous position. If Beauden wasn't there jumping at his head, the French player would have caught the ball. So it makes no sense to say he wasn't in a position to catch it. Rugby should just ban jumping for the ball if it is so inherently dangerous.
@hydro11 said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@hydro11 said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
That sending off is correct under the rules but bloody harsh. The player is in a position to catch the ball, he just doesn't put himself in danger by jumping in the air. Meanwhile Beauden jumps on top of him and gets away with nothing.
What drugs are you on? Beaudy was in the air when Fall arrived.
@shadowtrooper said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
Shit Cane gonna go for that
Lucky Parra didn't land on his head.
Huh? That's exactly my point. Beauden puts himself in a dangerous position. If Beauden wasn't there jumping at his head, the French player would have caught the ball. So it makes no sense to say he wasn't in a position to catch it. Rugby should just ban jumping for the ball if it is so inherently dangerous.
But he was. That's the point. Fall had a responsibility not to careen into him.
It's not about intent. A high tackle is not often intentional but can still be a card.
-
@gt12 said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@dingo said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
Thats the difference between looking to make something happen for yourself (DMC) and looking to set up someone else (Reiko, ALB).
That’s harsh because he helped make the space for Rieko to use there.
I think he’s been pretty good. Some runs for himself, but also some good kicks and well-timed passes. He’s certainly not the reason we are playing poorly.
Sorry, but can't agree. It was always on out wide and DMC actually almost wasted the opportunity to my mind. I'd also suggest that the DMC pass was within a gnat's pubic hair of being within intercept range.
@dingo said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@dingo said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
Thats the difference between looking to make something happen for yourself (DMC) and looking to set up someone else (Reiko, ALB).
That’s harsh because he helped make the space for Rieko to use there.
I think he’s been pretty good. Some runs for himself, but also some good kicks and well-timed passes. He’s certainly not the reason we are playing poorly.
Sorry, but can't agree. It was always on out wide and DMC actually almost wasted the opportunity to my mind. I'd also suggest that the DMC pass was within a gnat's pubic hair of being within intercept range.
DMACDS
-
@hydro11 said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@hydro11 said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
That sending off is correct under the rules but bloody harsh. The player is in a position to catch the ball, he just doesn't put himself in danger by jumping in the air. Meanwhile Beauden jumps on top of him and gets away with nothing.
What drugs are you on? Beaudy was in the air when Fall arrived.
@shadowtrooper said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
Shit Cane gonna go for that
Lucky Parra didn't land on his head.
Huh? That's exactly my point. Beauden puts himself in a dangerous position. If Beauden wasn't there jumping at his head, the French player would have caught the ball. So it makes no sense to say he wasn't in a position to catch it. Rugby should just ban jumping for the ball if it is so inherently dangerous.
But he was. That's the point. Fall had a responsibility not to careen into him.
It's not about intent. A high tackle is not often intentional but can still be a card.
@booboo the French centre reckons it was partly BBs fault....
Doumayrou conceded it was "the straight application of the regulation" but felt the match officials should have taken into account that there had been "a fault of the All Blacks" with Fall "unbalanced" while challenging for the ball.
-
Geez no one better get hurt or TJP is going to be the worlds most annoying flanker.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
Geez no one better get hurt or TJP is going to be the worlds most annoying flanker.
Was thinking Ngani to the side of the scrum ...
-
@booboo the French centre reckons it was partly BBs fault....
Doumayrou conceded it was "the straight application of the regulation" but felt the match officials should have taken into account that there had been "a fault of the All Blacks" with Fall "unbalanced" while challenging for the ball.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@booboo the French centre reckons it was partly BBs fault....
Doumayrou conceded it was "the straight application of the regulation" but felt the match officials should have taken into account that there had been "a fault of the All Blacks" with Fall "unbalanced" while challenging for the ball.
ABDS
Mind you someone said he ran into a shoulder prior to. Maybe that's what he means?
-
@canefan said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@hydro11 said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@hydro11 said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@hydro11 said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
That sending off is correct under the rules but bloody harsh. The player is in a position to catch the ball, he just doesn't put himself in danger by jumping in the air. Meanwhile Beauden jumps on top of him and gets away with nothing.
What drugs are you on? Beaudy was in the air when Fall arrived.
@shadowtrooper said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
Shit Cane gonna go for that
Lucky Parra didn't land on his head.
Huh? That's exactly my point. Beauden puts himself in a dangerous position. If Beauden wasn't there jumping at his head, the French player would have caught the ball. So it makes no sense to say he wasn't in a position to catch it. Rugby should just ban jumping for the ball if it is so inherently dangerous.
You might want to rephrase what you're saying. Beaudy was already there and in the air, not jumping at Fall's head.
He put himself in a position where his body could hit Fall's head.
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@hydro11 said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@hydro11 said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
That sending off is correct under the rules but bloody harsh. The player is in a position to catch the ball, he just doesn't put himself in danger by jumping in the air. Meanwhile Beauden jumps on top of him and gets away with nothing.
What drugs are you on? Beaudy was in the air when Fall arrived.
@shadowtrooper said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
Shit Cane gonna go for that
Lucky Parra didn't land on his head.
Huh? That's exactly my point. Beauden puts himself in a dangerous position. If Beauden wasn't there jumping at his head, the French player would have caught the ball. So it makes no sense to say he wasn't in a position to catch it. Rugby should just ban jumping for the ball if it is so inherently dangerous.
You might want to rephrase what you're saying. Beaudy was already there and in the air, not jumping at Fall's head.
Beauden put himself in that position though. Of course Beauden was going for the ball, as was Fall.
I think you need to look at rhe replay again. Are you saying it's BBs fault that he can jump early and high?
I'm saying that Fall was red carded for putting Barrett in a dangerous position because a player in the air gets protection. I don't see why that should be the case. If going into the air is so dangerous, why are players allowed to do it? It is completely arbitrary. You could easily look at it the other way. It is the player in the air who put the player in the ground in a dangerous position.
It is also laughable to say that Fall was not in a position to catch the ball. If Barrett wasn't there it would have fallen into his mits.
@hydro11 said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@canefan said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@hydro11 said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@hydro11 said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@hydro11 said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
That sending off is correct under the rules but bloody harsh. The player is in a position to catch the ball, he just doesn't put himself in danger by jumping in the air. Meanwhile Beauden jumps on top of him and gets away with nothing.
What drugs are you on? Beaudy was in the air when Fall arrived.
@shadowtrooper said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
Shit Cane gonna go for that
Lucky Parra didn't land on his head.
Huh? That's exactly my point. Beauden puts himself in a dangerous position. If Beauden wasn't there jumping at his head, the French player would have caught the ball. So it makes no sense to say he wasn't in a position to catch it. Rugby should just ban jumping for the ball if it is so inherently dangerous.
You might want to rephrase what you're saying. Beaudy was already there and in the air, not jumping at Fall's head.
He put himself in a position where his body could hit Fall's head.
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@hydro11 said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@hydro11 said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
That sending off is correct under the rules but bloody harsh. The player is in a position to catch the ball, he just doesn't put himself in danger by jumping in the air. Meanwhile Beauden jumps on top of him and gets away with nothing.
What drugs are you on? Beaudy was in the air when Fall arrived.
@shadowtrooper said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
Shit Cane gonna go for that
Lucky Parra didn't land on his head.
Huh? That's exactly my point. Beauden puts himself in a dangerous position. If Beauden wasn't there jumping at his head, the French player would have caught the ball. So it makes no sense to say he wasn't in a position to catch it. Rugby should just ban jumping for the ball if it is so inherently dangerous.
You might want to rephrase what you're saying. Beaudy was already there and in the air, not jumping at Fall's head.
Beauden put himself in that position though. Of course Beauden was going for the ball, as was Fall.
I think you need to look at rhe replay again. Are you saying it's BBs fault that he can jump early and high?
I'm saying that Fall was red carded for putting Barrett in a dangerous position because a player in the air gets protection. I don't see why that should be the case. If going into the air is so dangerous, why are players allowed to do it? It is completely arbitrary. You could easily look at it the other way. It is the player in the air who put the player in the ground in a dangerous position.
It is also laughable to say that Fall was not in a position to catch the ball. If Barrett wasn't there it would have fallen into his mits.
I say again: "And?"
-
-
@booboo said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@donsteppa said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
Arse throw from Harris
Where's Aumua?
Or Coltman ... or Makaleo (sp?) ...
Or even Funnell ...Harris looking like he wants out of the ABs.
-
TJ surprised at a card finally being given. Gobby halfback colleague Marshall also surprised..
@donsteppa said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
TJ surprised at a card finally being given. Gobby halfback colleague Marshall also surprised..
I'm not 100% on this but did he have a right to pick that up as tackler or does he have to go back through the gate now? That law changed didn't it?
So pen (therefore YC) was correct this year but tough last year?
-
@gunner said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
Really really tough card, there was no ruck there.
TJP knows - he has to come back around through the gate to contest as the tackler. They've played like that all year.
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@gunner said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
Really really tough card, there was no ruck there.
TJP knows - he has to come back around through the gate to contest as the tackler. They've played like that all year.
Thanks ... just need to keep reading the thread
-
@hydro11 said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@canefan said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@hydro11 said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@hydro11 said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@hydro11 said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
That sending off is correct under the rules but bloody harsh. The player is in a position to catch the ball, he just doesn't put himself in danger by jumping in the air. Meanwhile Beauden jumps on top of him and gets away with nothing.
What drugs are you on? Beaudy was in the air when Fall arrived.
@shadowtrooper said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
Shit Cane gonna go for that
Lucky Parra didn't land on his head.
Huh? That's exactly my point. Beauden puts himself in a dangerous position. If Beauden wasn't there jumping at his head, the French player would have caught the ball. So it makes no sense to say he wasn't in a position to catch it. Rugby should just ban jumping for the ball if it is so inherently dangerous.
You might want to rephrase what you're saying. Beaudy was already there and in the air, not jumping at Fall's head.
He put himself in a position where his body could hit Fall's head.
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@hydro11 said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@hydro11 said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
That sending off is correct under the rules but bloody harsh. The player is in a position to catch the ball, he just doesn't put himself in danger by jumping in the air. Meanwhile Beauden jumps on top of him and gets away with nothing.
What drugs are you on? Beaudy was in the air when Fall arrived.
@shadowtrooper said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
Shit Cane gonna go for that
Lucky Parra didn't land on his head.
Huh? That's exactly my point. Beauden puts himself in a dangerous position. If Beauden wasn't there jumping at his head, the French player would have caught the ball. So it makes no sense to say he wasn't in a position to catch it. Rugby should just ban jumping for the ball if it is so inherently dangerous.
You might want to rephrase what you're saying. Beaudy was already there and in the air, not jumping at Fall's head.
Beauden put himself in that position though. Of course Beauden was going for the ball, as was Fall.
I think you need to look at rhe replay again. Are you saying it's BBs fault that he can jump early and high?
I'm saying that Fall was red carded for putting Barrett in a dangerous position because a player in the air gets protection. I don't see why that should be the case. If going into the air is so dangerous, why are players allowed to do it? It is completely arbitrary. You could easily look at it the other way. It is the player in the air who put the player in the ground in a dangerous position.
It is also laughable to say that Fall was not in a position to catch the ball. If Barrett wasn't there it would have fallen into his mits.
I say again: "And?"
@booboo yep, take Fall away BB catches it clean and NO concussion and both team still have 15
-
Bloody hell Harris needs to have a rest - who's next cab off the rank - Coltman? Makalio?
@shadowtrooper said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
Bloody hell Harris needs to have a rest - who's next cab off the rank - Coltman? Makalio?
Great minds
-
TJP just played to his ranking. AS was shit so it stands to reason that the second string has to be shitter.
A lot of the rubbish we dished up stemmed from AS having one of the worst games I have seen from him. It was like he had just just come out of the disabled dunnies at Wellington Airport after a Shag and was dreading the morning papers.
