All Blacks v France Test 3
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@wreck-diver said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
Did it have any bearing on the result, NO. They still would have lost by 40.
Yep - the whinging about the adversity suffered by the French - which basically amounted to an unlucky yellow card and a bit of ref shepherding - is way over the top.
On the back of those two events they suffered two defeats that would have been the heaviest in AB history if sustained by us.
You've got to be able to overcome a bit of adversity!
@chris-b Can they really look at themselves in the mirror and say I did all I could. I dont think so, they did show any any backbone in 2 test matches.
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Two clips from last night have been posted on twitter:
https://twitter.com/RichardLastSKY/status/1011807591599562753
https://twitter.com/RichardLastSKY/status/1011809019873226752
@stargazer said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
Two clips from last night have been posted on twitter:
https://twitter.com/RichardLastSKY/status/1011807591599562753
https://twitter.com/RichardLastSKY/status/1011809019873226752
Very interesting
Couple of questions/thoughts
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WTF is up with the Irish guy's beanie?
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Depth is all well and good, but if you have the best players in the world at that position you have to play them hence Carter and Read's high %s in the '1014 Show' depth chart.
On the '1014 Show' depth scale, not desireable.
On a NZ winning matches scale, overwhelmingly important.
I would argue that lots of teams would have the desired 50/30/20 depth ratio but not the 50/30/20 depth quality.
Once again, that's what seperates the ABs from the chasing pack IMHO
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@pakman said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@pukunui said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
Not like Kaino was fast.
JK was not a bad sprinter at school.
And from 2011-2015 when he was at his rugby peak?
His running speed would be well down the list of attributes i would use to describe Kaino.
It may never happen anyway but lack of speed is a silly reason for saying Barrett couldn't cover 6.
I would much prefer that than Fifita covering lock.@pukunui said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@pukunui said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
Not like Kaino was fast.
JK was not a bad sprinter at school.
And from 2011-2015 when he was at his rugby peak?
His running speed would be well down the list of attributes i would use to describe Kaino.
It may never happen anyway but lack of speed is a silly reason for saying Barrett couldn't cover 6.
I would much prefer that than Fifita covering lock.Kaino certainly slowed as age and injuries took their toll.
Given how the ABs play, they don't need someone who's fast at 6 (e.g. Fifita), but need an adequate level of speed to get to rucks (c.f. Carthorse Robshaw). Not sure how fast SB actually is, but his brothers are no slouches. Had his best performance in black and he meant business in the hit -- to me the AB's most dominant tackler on Sunday.
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Just watching 1014 on sky sport and they analysis they do on the play patterns is farken good. Really interesting review of the series v France
@jk said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
Just watching 1014 on sky sport and they analysis they do on the play patterns is farken good. Really interesting review of the series v France
I live in London, but my best mate has bigged up 1014. I don't suppose there's any chance one can watch in online?
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On the DMac debate, a few comments:
Overall he played well at 10. Some sensational attacking and put pace on the ball with his passing (c.f. Pollard in Poms 1 & 2). SBW looked great outside him.
Has got some boot on him for a wee fella! Yes he kicked it too far on one obvious occasion, but that was unlucky, given he kicked from within his 22. The great D.B. Clarke would have been impressed with that yardage!
Not convinced, though, on his backline generalship. Give him a dry track, good service (much better this week, Nugget) and a tiring oppo and he is mainly excellent. But still throwing some minus 7 passes, which will bite us at some point if not sorted.
The big question for me is how would be do on a wet day, soft pitch and trench warfare? That is where 10s like Sexton are worth their weight in gold. As I think Zinny used to say, it's when the scrum is going backwards you see just how good the no. 8 is. Bear in mind that Japan in October, could well have those conditions, and we have Boks in our group.
My inclination is the Mo'unga would shine better on such a day, although I acknowledge the Lions match didn't support that theory. Sometimes we'll need a first five who realises that nothing's on and will play territory by nudging it into the corner.
Hope to see more of both of them, but for me DMac is ideal off the bench but not necessarily the answer if BB crocked.
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@pukunui said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@pukunui said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
Not like Kaino was fast.
JK was not a bad sprinter at school.
And from 2011-2015 when he was at his rugby peak?
His running speed would be well down the list of attributes i would use to describe Kaino.
It may never happen anyway but lack of speed is a silly reason for saying Barrett couldn't cover 6.
I would much prefer that than Fifita covering lock.Kaino certainly slowed as age and injuries took their toll.
Given how the ABs play, they don't need someone who's fast at 6 (e.g. Fifita), but need an adequate level of speed to get to rucks (c.f. Carthorse Robshaw). Not sure how fast SB actually is, but his brothers are no slouches. Had his best performance in black and he meant business in the hit -- to me the AB's most dominant tackler on Sunday.
@pakman said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@pukunui said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@pukunui said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
Not like Kaino was fast.
JK was not a bad sprinter at school.
And from 2011-2015 when he was at his rugby peak?
His running speed would be well down the list of attributes i would use to describe Kaino.
It may never happen anyway but lack of speed is a silly reason for saying Barrett couldn't cover 6.
I would much prefer that than Fifita covering lock.Kaino certainly slowed as age and injuries took their toll.
Given how the ABs play, they don't need someone who's fast at 6 (e.g. Fifita), but need an adequate level of speed to get to rucks (c.f. Carthorse Robshaw). Not sure how fast SB actually is, but his brothers are no slouches.
As others have mentioned previously, he was the fastest to the Barrett dinner table.
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Thought the debutantes, Goodhue and Frizzell, were alright without setting the world on fire. In particular, I was hoping to see a few big hits from SF, but must have missed any there were.
Early days, as both young, but quite a lot to do, in view of the completion in their spots, if they want to lock down slots.
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Thought the debutantes, Goodhue and Frizzell, were alright without setting the world on fire. In particular, I was hoping to see a few big hits from SF, but must have missed any there were.
Early days, as both young, but quite a lot to do, in view of the completion in their spots, if they want to lock down slots.
@pakman said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
Thought the debutantes, Goodhue and Frizzell, were alright without setting the world on fire. In particular, I was hoping to see a few big hits from SF, but must have missed any there were.
Early days, as both young, but quite a lot to do, in view of the completion in their spots, if they want to lock down slots.
I didn't watch Frizzell that closely, but Goodhue certainly didn't look out of place at this level. Probably needs more confidence to show out, but then again when your 10 is taking the risks the centres need to be conservative.
What he didn't do is show anything more than the player most think is at risk (ALB). If he wants to knock him aside he needs to grab his chances.Read an interesting observation the other day that maybe SBW looked so good was that he was operating outside DMac and playing close to the advantage line. That has some merit. Think when SBW has looked really good in the past and it was outside Cruden who would also take the ball to the line, short pass or take a half gap.
That 'light on the feet stepping 10' does seem to bring the best out of him. -
@pukunui said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@pukunui said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
Not like Kaino was fast.
JK was not a bad sprinter at school.
And from 2011-2015 when he was at his rugby peak?
His running speed would be well down the list of attributes i would use to describe Kaino.
It may never happen anyway but lack of speed is a silly reason for saying Barrett couldn't cover 6.
I would much prefer that than Fifita covering lock.Kaino certainly slowed as age and injuries took their toll.
Given how the ABs play, they don't need someone who's fast at 6 (e.g. Fifita), but need an adequate level of speed to get to rucks (c.f. Carthorse Robshaw). Not sure how fast SB actually is, but his brothers are no slouches. Had his best performance in black and he meant business in the hit -- to me the AB's most dominant tackler on Sunday.
@pakman said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@pukunui said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@pukunui said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
Not like Kaino was fast.
JK was not a bad sprinter at school.
And from 2011-2015 when he was at his rugby peak?
His running speed would be well down the list of attributes i would use to describe Kaino.
It may never happen anyway but lack of speed is a silly reason for saying Barrett couldn't cover 6.
I would much prefer that than Fifita covering lock.Kaino certainly slowed as age and injuries took their toll.
Given how the ABs play, they don't need someone who's fast at 6 (e.g. Fifita), but need an adequate level of speed to get to rucks (c.f. Carthorse Robshaw). Not sure how fast SB actually is, but his brothers are no slouches. Had his best performance in black and he meant business in the hit -- to me the AB's most dominant tackler on Sunday.
A number six needs enough speed to make sure a breaking 8 on a blindside scrum move doesn't get past him. It's empty space all day if that happens.
Hitting lots of rucks is more about how good your motor is and lines run. Any guy close to AB selection with have enough speed for that.
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@pakman said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@pukunui said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@pukunui said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
Not like Kaino was fast.
JK was not a bad sprinter at school.
And from 2011-2015 when he was at his rugby peak?
His running speed would be well down the list of attributes i would use to describe Kaino.
It may never happen anyway but lack of speed is a silly reason for saying Barrett couldn't cover 6.
I would much prefer that than Fifita covering lock.Kaino certainly slowed as age and injuries took their toll.
Given how the ABs play, they don't need someone who's fast at 6 (e.g. Fifita), but need an adequate level of speed to get to rucks (c.f. Carthorse Robshaw). Not sure how fast SB actually is, but his brothers are no slouches. Had his best performance in black and he meant business in the hit -- to me the AB's most dominant tackler on Sunday.
A number six needs enough speed to make sure a breaking 8 on a blindside scrum move doesn't get past him. It's empty space all day if that happens.
Hitting lots of rucks is more about how good your motor is and lines run. Any guy close to AB selection with have enough speed for that.
@chester-draws said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@pukunui said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@pukunui said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
Not like Kaino was fast.
JK was not a bad sprinter at school.
And from 2011-2015 when he was at his rugby peak?
His running speed would be well down the list of attributes i would use to describe Kaino.
It may never happen anyway but lack of speed is a silly reason for saying Barrett couldn't cover 6.
I would much prefer that than Fifita covering lock.Kaino certainly slowed as age and injuries took their toll.
Given how the ABs play, they don't need someone who's fast at 6 (e.g. Fifita), but need an adequate level of speed to get to rucks (c.f. Carthorse Robshaw). Not sure how fast SB actually is, but his brothers are no slouches. Had his best performance in black and he meant business in the hit -- to me the AB's most dominant tackler on Sunday.
A number six needs enough speed to make sure a breaking 8 on a blindside scrum move doesn't get past him. It's empty space all day if that happens.
Hitting lots of rucks is more about how good your motor is and lines run. Any guy close to AB selection with have enough speed for that.
Which is why Eddie Jones selected Shields ahead of Robshaw, who is too slow for this in a fast moving game on a dry track.
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@pakman said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
Thought the debutantes, Goodhue and Frizzell, were alright without setting the world on fire. In particular, I was hoping to see a few big hits from SF, but must have missed any there were.
Early days, as both young, but quite a lot to do, in view of the completion in their spots, if they want to lock down slots.
I didn't watch Frizzell that closely, but Goodhue certainly didn't look out of place at this level. Probably needs more confidence to show out, but then again when your 10 is taking the risks the centres need to be conservative.
What he didn't do is show anything more than the player most think is at risk (ALB). If he wants to knock him aside he needs to grab his chances.Read an interesting observation the other day that maybe SBW looked so good was that he was operating outside DMac and playing close to the advantage line. That has some merit. Think when SBW has looked really good in the past and it was outside Cruden who would also take the ball to the line, short pass or take a half gap.
That 'light on the feet stepping 10' does seem to bring the best out of him.@crucial said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
Thought the debutantes, Goodhue and Frizzell, were alright without setting the world on fire. In particular, I was hoping to see a few big hits from SF, but must have missed any there were.
Early days, as both young, but quite a lot to do, in view of the completion in their spots, if they want to lock down slots.
I didn't watch Frizzell that closely, but Goodhue certainly didn't look out of place at this level. Probably needs more confidence to show out, but then again when your 10 is taking the risks the centres need to be conservative.
What he didn't do is show anything more than the player most think is at risk (ALB). If he wants to knock him aside he needs to grab his chances.Read an interesting observation the other day that maybe SBW looked so good was that he was operating outside DMac and playing close to the advantage line. That has some merit. Think when SBW has looked really good in the past and it was outside Cruden who would also take the ball to the line, short pass or take a half gap.
That 'light on the feet stepping 10' does seem to bring the best out of him.On the assumption Crotty and SBW are locks and AB selectors seem to have a preference for a bigger 12 I'd have thought Laumape has the edge on ALB, and particularly JG. So it could well end up a shoot out between ALB and JG for 13, and I concur that the new man hasn't done enough (yet?).
IIRC we've agreed on Cruden/SBW before. AC often played very flat and challenged the line, with SBW coming in flat on a line close to him. If AC passed he'd create a little extra space for SBW, who was lethal in that situation.
SBW has never looked quite as good outside DC or BB. Nonu on the other hand never quite sparked outside Crudes, but we all know what he did the G10OAT!
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@crucial said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
Thought the debutantes, Goodhue and Frizzell, were alright without setting the world on fire. In particular, I was hoping to see a few big hits from SF, but must have missed any there were.
Early days, as both young, but quite a lot to do, in view of the completion in their spots, if they want to lock down slots.
I didn't watch Frizzell that closely, but Goodhue certainly didn't look out of place at this level. Probably needs more confidence to show out, but then again when your 10 is taking the risks the centres need to be conservative.
What he didn't do is show anything more than the player most think is at risk (ALB). If he wants to knock him aside he needs to grab his chances.Read an interesting observation the other day that maybe SBW looked so good was that he was operating outside DMac and playing close to the advantage line. That has some merit. Think when SBW has looked really good in the past and it was outside Cruden who would also take the ball to the line, short pass or take a half gap.
That 'light on the feet stepping 10' does seem to bring the best out of him.On the assumption Crotty and SBW are locks and AB selectors seem to have a preference for a bigger 12 I'd have thought Laumape has the edge on ALB, and particularly JG. So it could well end up a shoot out between ALB and JG for 13, and I concur that the new man hasn't done enough (yet?).
IIRC we've agreed on Cruden/SBW before. AC often played very flat and challenged the line, with SBW coming in flat on a line close to him. If AC passed he'd create a little extra space for SBW, who was lethal in that situation.
SBW has never looked quite as good outside DC or BB. Nonu on the other hand never quite sparked outside Crudes, but we all know what he did the G10OAT!
@pakman said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@crucial said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
Thought the debutantes, Goodhue and Frizzell, were alright without setting the world on fire. In particular, I was hoping to see a few big hits from SF, but must have missed any there were.
Early days, as both young, but quite a lot to do, in view of the completion in their spots, if they want to lock down slots.
I didn't watch Frizzell that closely, but Goodhue certainly didn't look out of place at this level. Probably needs more confidence to show out, but then again when your 10 is taking the risks the centres need to be conservative.
What he didn't do is show anything more than the player most think is at risk (ALB). If he wants to knock him aside he needs to grab his chances.Read an interesting observation the other day that maybe SBW looked so good was that he was operating outside DMac and playing close to the advantage line. That has some merit. Think when SBW has looked really good in the past and it was outside Cruden who would also take the ball to the line, short pass or take a half gap.
That 'light on the feet stepping 10' does seem to bring the best out of him.On the assumption Crotty and SBW are locks and AB selectors seem to have a preference for a bigger 12 I'd have thought Laumape has the edge on ALB, and particularly JG. So it could well end up a shoot out between ALB and JG for 13, and I concur that the new man hasn't done enough (yet?).
IIRC we've agreed on Cruden/SBW before. AC often played very flat and challenged the line, with SBW coming in flat on a line close to him. If AC passed he'd create a little extra space for SBW, who was lethal in that situation.
SBW has never looked quite as good outside DC or BB. Nonu on the other hand never quite sparked outside Crudes, but we all know what he did the G10OAT!
I just think it may be interesting tactically for the coaches with that knowledge.
If you know that DMac/SBW can create together, do you set up the plan to get that combo on against a flat defence if you need to?
Do you have that combo in mind even with keeping BB on the field?
Could we see a scenario where DMac comes off the bench and pushes BB back to 15?
How do you fit both BFA and JB into this scenario?
If DMac becomes important in this planning then we go to the RWC with 2 10s and a utility 10. How does that affect the mix for the 4 outside backs given that he also covers 15. If both BFA and JB are there that only leaves room for two specialist wingers.Will all be interesting.
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@jk said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
Just watching 1014 on sky sport and they analysis they do on the play patterns is farken good. Really interesting review of the series v France
I live in London, but my best mate has bigged up 1014. I don't suppose there's any chance one can watch in online?
@pakman said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@jk said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
Just watching 1014 on sky sport and they analysis they do on the play patterns is farken good. Really interesting review of the series v France
I live in London, but my best mate has bigged up 1014. I don't suppose there's any chance one can watch in online?
There are two episodes linked not too far up above somewhere but waiting in the end of series one to come on line
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Thought the debutantes, Goodhue and Frizzell, were alright without setting the world on fire. In particular, I was hoping to see a few big hits from SF, but must have missed any there were.
Early days, as both young, but quite a lot to do, in view of the completion in their spots, if they want to lock down slots.
@pakman said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
Thought the debutantes, Goodhue and Frizzell, were alright without setting the world on fire.
Like you, I thought they did OK. They were probably keeping to the game-plan and trying hard not to do anything stupid and/or let the team down.
They didn't look out of place and no major cock-ups. You can't ask much more than that and Hansen and co. will have had a good look at them in the AB environment.
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@crucial said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
Thought the debutantes, Goodhue and Frizzell, were alright without setting the world on fire. In particular, I was hoping to see a few big hits from SF, but must have missed any there were.
Early days, as both young, but quite a lot to do, in view of the completion in their spots, if they want to lock down slots.
I didn't watch Frizzell that closely, but Goodhue certainly didn't look out of place at this level. Probably needs more confidence to show out, but then again when your 10 is taking the risks the centres need to be conservative.
What he didn't do is show anything more than the player most think is at risk (ALB). If he wants to knock him aside he needs to grab his chances.Read an interesting observation the other day that maybe SBW looked so good was that he was operating outside DMac and playing close to the advantage line. That has some merit. Think when SBW has looked really good in the past and it was outside Cruden who would also take the ball to the line, short pass or take a half gap.
That 'light on the feet stepping 10' does seem to bring the best out of him.On the assumption Crotty and SBW are locks and AB selectors seem to have a preference for a bigger 12 I'd have thought Laumape has the edge on ALB, and particularly JG. So it could well end up a shoot out between ALB and JG for 13, and I concur that the new man hasn't done enough (yet?).
IIRC we've agreed on Cruden/SBW before. AC often played very flat and challenged the line, with SBW coming in flat on a line close to him. If AC passed he'd create a little extra space for SBW, who was lethal in that situation.
SBW has never looked quite as good outside DC or BB. Nonu on the other hand never quite sparked outside Crudes, but we all know what he did the G10OAT!
@pakman said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
So it could well end up a shoot out between ALB and JG for 13, and I concur that the new man hasn't done enough (yet?).
One of the great mysteries is why ALB hasn't kicked-on from 2016. Thought he was outstanding in that season for a rookie.
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@pakman said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
So it could well end up a shoot out between ALB and JG for 13, and I concur that the new man hasn't done enough (yet?).
One of the great mysteries is why ALB hasn't kicked-on from 2016. Thought he was outstanding in that season for a rookie.
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
One of the great mysteries is why ALB hasn't kicked-on from 2016. Thought he was outstanding in that season for a rookie.
And yet Hansen has said more than once that ALB has never had a bad game for the ABs.
SBW, Crotty and ALB are the top 3 midfielders in the eyes of the AB coaches. The latter two can play both positions which is gold in a RWC squad. Laumape is really only a 2nd 5, and that puts him most at risk. Only 4 midfielders were taken in 2015 so I would expect the same number for 2019.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
One of the great mysteries is why ALB hasn't kicked-on from 2016. Thought he was outstanding in that season for a rookie.
And yet Hansen has said more than once that ALB has never had a bad game for the ABs.
SBW, Crotty and ALB are the top 3 midfielders in the eyes of the AB coaches. The latter two can play both positions which is gold in a RWC squad. Laumape is really only a 2nd 5, and that puts him most at risk. Only 4 midfielders were taken in 2015 so I would expect the same number for 2019.
@bovidae problem with both SBW (32) & Crotty (29) is they both spend alot of time injured recently, so will need to be managed if we want them firing and on the park come RWC, as we know, if fit, they will play 12/13.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
One of the great mysteries is why ALB hasn't kicked-on from 2016. Thought he was outstanding in that season for a rookie.
And yet Hansen has said more than once that ALB has never had a bad game for the ABs.
SBW, Crotty and ALB are the top 3 midfielders in the eyes of the AB coaches. The latter two can play both positions which is gold in a RWC squad. Laumape is really only a 2nd 5, and that puts him most at risk. Only 4 midfielders were taken in 2015 so I would expect the same number for 2019.
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If that is a concern I can see the ABs taking an extra midfielder at the expense of an outside back. In 2015 they selected 4 of each, but given DMac has been used on the wing, as well as fullback, and JB should have more experience to cover 12/13 there will be more versatility in the backs.
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If that is a concern I can see the ABs taking an extra midfielder at the expense of an outside back. In 2015 they selected 4 of each, but given DMac has been used on the wing, as well as fullback, and JB should have more experience to cover 12/13 there will be more versatility in the backs.
@bovidae Assuming it's going to 31 man squads for RWC2019, I can't see them carrying five midfielders.
They'll already need to shed two players from the 33 man squad they're using this year - plus almost certainly add a third hooker to what they used in June. So, one less loose forward, one less midfielder and they've still got to find somewhere else to prune - possibly in the outside backs.
