NZ vs. Aust - Japanese yawn edition
-
@mariner4life said in NZ vs. Aust - Japanese yawn edition:
2nd try of the arvo that only comes off because our scrum is absolutely dominant, and yet the props can't get any love in the voting
against Australia, it's hard to cover yourself in glory as a prop. You do your job, and the fancy pants show ponies get the plaudits.
ever 'twas thus
@nzzp said in NZ vs. Aust - Japanese yawn edition:
@mariner4life said in NZ vs. Aust - Japanese yawn edition:
2nd try of the arvo that only comes off because our scrum is absolutely dominant, and yet the props can't get any love in the voting
against Australia, it's hard to cover yourself in glory as a prop. You do your job, and the fancy pants show ponies get the plaudits.
ever 'twas thus
-
@davesofthunder said in NZ vs. Aust - Japanese yawn edition:
Yep I enjoyed that too.
It's so recognisable that feeling of seeing a move comes off and just being stoked.
Heard one of them said it had never gone that well in training.
Possibly because in training they were against smarter defenders?
That is a really interesting move to watch frame by frame.At the start not a single Wallaby was watching the blind side. Maybe there was a call from Genia, but watch Hannigan.
He only has eyes for the play on the openside even though he can do fuck all to help if the ball goes that way. He should be trusting his team mates to clean that up and be looking at the blindside setup to position himself should the ball be recycled and come that way.
SBWs line and timing attracts a lot of attention meaning slow reaction when the ball goes to BB. Genia is first to notice and react, and is actually very switched on. Trouble is that Reiko is able to be well in motion with the ball and easily gets around him.
After that, as mentioned, Reiko does really well to back himself to get the ball past the next defenders before passing. That made a huge difference.@crucial think it was Dempsey on by that stage. He moves toward the open, sees the change, but then suddenly Squires is just enough in his way that he's no chance of getting there. It's a good line, then two shit tackle attempts and pace does the rest.
Dempsey would have had to stay on the blind the whole time to be in a position to get there, but the switch makes the space, and that's the execution the Wallabies don't have
-
@crucial think it was Dempsey on by that stage. He moves toward the open, sees the change, but then suddenly Squires is just enough in his way that he's no chance of getting there. It's a good line, then two shit tackle attempts and pace does the rest.
Dempsey would have had to stay on the blind the whole time to be in a position to get there, but the switch makes the space, and that's the execution the Wallabies don't have
@nta said in NZ vs. Aust - Japanese yawn edition:
@crucial think it was Dempsey on by that stage. He moves toward the open, sees the change, but then suddenly Squires is just enough in his way that he's no chance of getting there. It's a good line, then two shit tackle attempts and pace does the rest.
Dempsey would have had to stay on the blind the whole time to be in a position to get there, but the switch makes the space, and that's the execution the Wallabies don't have
My bad then. Just assumed it was Hannigan.
Watch him come up from the scrum though. He had no intention to look at anything but the openside.This could have been because Genia called it open but I would still expect a blindside flanker to be awake to any possibility down his side either in the first phase, or in prep for the second.
My point was that maybe the move didn't come off that well in training because the opposing 6 was more awake. He wouldn't even have to make a tackle, just get in the line of Reiko's run enough that the cover (Genia) had a split second longer to get in place.
-
@nta said in NZ vs. Aust - Japanese yawn edition:
@crucial think it was Dempsey on by that stage. He moves toward the open, sees the change, but then suddenly Squires is just enough in his way that he's no chance of getting there. It's a good line, then two shit tackle attempts and pace does the rest.
Dempsey would have had to stay on the blind the whole time to be in a position to get there, but the switch makes the space, and that's the execution the Wallabies don't have
My bad then. Just assumed it was Hannigan.
Watch him come up from the scrum though. He had no intention to look at anything but the openside.This could have been because Genia called it open but I would still expect a blindside flanker to be awake to any possibility down his side either in the first phase, or in prep for the second.
My point was that maybe the move didn't come off that well in training because the opposing 6 was more awake. He wouldn't even have to make a tackle, just get in the line of Reiko's run enough that the cover (Genia) had a split second longer to get in place.
@crucial Like Nick mentioned earlier, Squire actually obstructed Dempsey. It was done very subtly (and brilliantly) but was enough to ensure he couldn't plug the gap. Am not sure if Dempsey would have been quick enough to get to Reiko even if Squire had not blocked him but it was definitely an obstruction.
-
@crucial Like Nick mentioned earlier, Squire actually obstructed Dempsey. It was done very subtly (and brilliantly) but was enough to ensure he couldn't plug the gap. Am not sure if Dempsey would have been quick enough to get to Reiko even if Squire had not blocked him but it was definitely an obstruction.
@akan004 said in NZ vs. Aust - Japanese yawn edition:
@crucial Like Nick mentioned earlier, Squire actually obstructed Dempsey. It was done very subtly (and brilliantly) but was enough to ensure he couldn't plug the gap. Am not sure if Dempsey would have been quick enough to get to Reiko even if Squire had not blocked him but it was definitely an obstruction.
Except Squire got in his way behind the scrum on the way to the openside. There was no need for Dempsey to even go there in the first place. He left no one in position on the blind.
That was my point. A better 6 would have not committed so hard to ball watching and expect that is why the move was more difficult in training.Edit: On another watching the fault is partly on using the standard defensive strategy from the scrum. Dempsey is obviously drilled to own the inside channel rather than have the loosehead lock do so.
That's why he raced around. From there his reaction was too slow as once the ball went out the back to BB the inside ball option on attack had gone and he needed to be awake to other possibilities. Good manipulation of the Wallabies defensive patterns by the attack coach. -
@crucial Like Nick mentioned earlier, Squire actually obstructed Dempsey. It was done very subtly (and brilliantly) but was enough to ensure he couldn't plug the gap. Am not sure if Dempsey would have been quick enough to get to Reiko even if Squire had not blocked him but it was definitely an obstruction.
@akan004 said in NZ vs. Aust - Japanese yawn edition:
@crucial Like Nick mentioned earlier, Squire actually obstructed Dempsey. It was done very subtly (and brilliantly) but was enough to ensure he couldn't plug the gap. Am not sure if Dempsey would have been quick enough to get to Reiko even if Squire had not blocked him but it was definitely an obstruction.
In the half time banter on Sky, Steve Luatua, who came across as very rugby savvy, pointed out the block.
Hope he returns after the RWC...
-
Highlight vid below.
Some points I noticed
-
Squires try. Excellent two wave attack with SBW as the link. SBWs timing and pass were excellent. Classic 'second-five' distribution.
-
Read's try. TJP didn't even move from the tunnel so was obviously there to block Hannigan from making anything other than a side on tackle. Like the BB try this was manipulation of a 'standard' defence pattern where Genia would take second man out and Hannigan the close channel. Genia should have been experienced enough to see what TJP was doing to make Hannigan ineffective and stayed on Read although there was also a nice little dummy from Read toward BB that tricked him. Poor defensive decision making.
-
Naivalu's try. Some very good defence in the build up by DMac but the door was opened by BB (who BFA had already told to cover the sideline) started dropping back to come around too early. Gave Naivalu too much room. Should have listened to BFA
-
Lead up to the BFA try. Bad defensive miss by SBW on Folau. It was schoolboy tackling at worst with a launch from too far out. Luckily it was also a schoolboy error from Folau to attempt an offload as he hadn't even looked to see where BFA was. As for the line AS ran I agree that on another day the decision could well have gone against him. He was very lucky in that it isn't clear and obvious that he made a change in his running line and he was cunning enough to turn his body back toward BFA which created the optics of expecting a pass.
-
Folau's try. AS totally sucked in by Folau's line and over ran his tackle attempt. Bad decision making as there was plenty of wide cover. It was the inside step that needed filling.
-
Reiko's try. Great run by BFA but awful defence by Australia. Got themselves in a complete muddle of miscommunication (Beale the worst culprit) resulting 3 defenders taking each other out. Once the line was breached there was a 6 on 2 with only one more defender desperately running across.
Poor decisions on attack and defence the biggest difference between the teams. They made far more of them than we did.
-
-
Must the Aussies do this after every single loss to us. Their whinging has reached ridiculous levels.
-
Must the Aussies do this after every single loss to us. Their whinging has reached ridiculous levels.
@akan004 said in NZ vs. Aust - Japanese yawn edition:
Must the Aussies do this after every single loss to us. Their whinging has reached ridiculous levels.
-
Highlight vid below.
Some points I noticed
-
Squires try. Excellent two wave attack with SBW as the link. SBWs timing and pass were excellent. Classic 'second-five' distribution.
-
Read's try. TJP didn't even move from the tunnel so was obviously there to block Hannigan from making anything other than a side on tackle. Like the BB try this was manipulation of a 'standard' defence pattern where Genia would take second man out and Hannigan the close channel. Genia should have been experienced enough to see what TJP was doing to make Hannigan ineffective and stayed on Read although there was also a nice little dummy from Read toward BB that tricked him. Poor defensive decision making.
-
Naivalu's try. Some very good defence in the build up by DMac but the door was opened by BB (who BFA had already told to cover the sideline) started dropping back to come around too early. Gave Naivalu too much room. Should have listened to BFA
-
Lead up to the BFA try. Bad defensive miss by SBW on Folau. It was schoolboy tackling at worst with a launch from too far out. Luckily it was also a schoolboy error from Folau to attempt an offload as he hadn't even looked to see where BFA was. As for the line AS ran I agree that on another day the decision could well have gone against him. He was very lucky in that it isn't clear and obvious that he made a change in his running line and he was cunning enough to turn his body back toward BFA which created the optics of expecting a pass.
-
Folau's try. AS totally sucked in by Folau's line and over ran his tackle attempt. Bad decision making as there was plenty of wide cover. It was the inside step that needed filling.
-
Reiko's try. Great run by BFA but awful defence by Australia. Got themselves in a complete muddle of miscommunication (Beale the worst culprit) resulting 3 defenders taking each other out. Once the line was breached there was a 6 on 2 with only one more defender desperately running across.
Poor decisions on attack and defence the biggest difference between the teams. They made far more of them than we did.
-
-
@jegga said in NZ vs. Aust - Japanese yawn edition:
Had to look to see if that was from the Betoota Advocate ...
Huge respect for AAC but surely that ship sailed?
-
@jegga said in NZ vs. Aust - Japanese yawn edition:
Had to look to see if that was from the Betoota Advocate ...
Huge respect for AAC but surely that ship sailed?
@booboo said in NZ vs. Aust - Japanese yawn edition:
@jegga said in NZ vs. Aust - Japanese yawn edition:
Had to look to see if that was from the Betoota Advocate ...
Huge respect for AAC but surely that ship sailed?
It is worth repeating as it applies to this selection, too
 https://media.giphy.com/media/mmYy42RNrgA0w/giphy.gif -
You see mad eye hooper bursting a gut to limit beaudy getting towards the goal posts, the winger just leave him to it. He maybe a knob but he puts in a hundred every time
@machpants said in NZ vs. Aust - Japanese yawn edition:
You see mad eye hooper bursting a gut to limit beaudy getting towards the goal posts, the winger just leave him to it. He maybe a knob but he puts in a hundred every time
After he has retired, that will be my abiding memory of him. Sprinting to chase a back he has no hope of catching but never giving up.
-
Must the Aussies do this after every single loss to us. Their whinging has reached ridiculous levels.
@akan004 said in NZ vs. Aust - Japanese yawn edition:
Must the Aussies do this after every single loss to us. Their whinging has reached ridiculous levels.
that is delicious!!
We're not shit, we just don't cheat like they do!!
I always enjoy a "let's look at one team" breakdown of all the "illegalities" they get away with. It just means your team won. Again.
Time to scrap the 3 tests against Australia, they just don't deserve it.
-
@jegga said in NZ vs. Aust - Japanese yawn edition:
Had to look to see if that was from the Betoota Advocate ...
Huge respect for AAC but surely that ship sailed?
@booboo said in NZ vs. Aust - Japanese yawn edition:
@jegga said in NZ vs. Aust - Japanese yawn edition:
Had to look to see if that was from the Betoota Advocate ...
Huge respect for AAC but surely that ship sailed?
I suppose if Cheika was coach he'd be on the team, rather than just motivation...
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/oct/29/will-carling-eddie-jones-leadership-role
-
Dempsey getting a bit of stick on here and in other places for the BB try.
When I played Blindside flanker, way back admitedly, I absolutely broke to the open side as quickly as possible depending on the "break" call.
Defences have changed in 20 years, they don't chase rucks like I did, but I doubt that much from a scrum? Why would you stay blind when the ball has been passed open to the actual first-five?
Mistakes or mis-reads are allowed to happen if the opposition work it (or disgiuse it) well.
The pass from BB to Ioane was pure sex.
-
Dempsey getting a bit of stick on here and in other places for the BB try.
When I played Blindside flanker, way back admitedly, I absolutely broke to the open side as quickly as possible depending on the "break" call.
Defences have changed in 20 years, they don't chase rucks like I did, but I doubt that much from a scrum? Why would you stay blind when the ball has been passed open to the actual first-five?
Mistakes or mis-reads are allowed to happen if the opposition work it (or disgiuse it) well.
The pass from BB to Ioane was pure sex.
@rapido said in NZ vs. Aust - Japanese yawn edition:
Dempsey getting a bit of stick on here and in other places for the BB try.
When I played Blindside flanker, way back admitedly, I absolutely broke to the open side as quickly as possible depending on the "break" call.
Defences have changed in 20 years, they don't chase rucks like I did, but I doubt that much from a scrum? Why would you stay blind when the ball has been passed open to the actual first-five?
Mistakes or mis-reads are allowed to happen if the opposition work it (or disgiuse it) well.
The pass from BB to Ioane was pure sex.
I had been pointing out the way that Australia follow a ‘standard’ defensive pattern which we exploited beautifully. (Pretty much the same as you have said).
Now watch the ABs after most rucks or scrums. They keep width and options no matter where the ball goes to start with. At the very least they keep an eye on the possibilities while not over committing.
BTW, the moment the ball went back to BB instead of to SBW, Dempsey’s run to the open was wasted.
I would be critical of the ABs if they were so easily manipulated as well.
Twice in the game we were able to use their over commitment to a standard defence against them.
