England vs All Blacks
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@gt12 said in England vs All Blacks:
But according to the info my handy iPhone rugby laws app, he’s played according to them.
Cheers for mentioning the app, I have downloaded and will now be slightly more informed when ranting away on here (usually I'm searching on the web as I always forget to bookmark the laws.
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@rapido given you had our 'premier' commetator, former AB halfback Marshall saying he was ok cos TJ had his hands on the ball, it kinda sums things up perfectly.
Isnt that the same guy they went to for comment on another controversial call earlier this year?
@taniwharugby said in England vs All Blacks:
@rapido given you had our 'premier' commetator, former AB halfback Marshall saying he was ok cos TJ had his hands on the ball, it kinda sums things up perfectly.
Isnt that the same guy they went to for comment on another controversial call earlier this year?
Yes, I'm forgiving of people who made a mistake immediately or punters venting within the first 24 hours etc.
It's the 4 days later, after social media and the interweb has been flooded by complaints and people correcting others where parts of their complaints went wrong. That I can't believe a printed article is produced by an ex-ref with such a glaring mistake.
But on your point re: Marshall. The comments men should just stop trying to be instant law gurus. Just explain (if needed) why the ref or TMO have come to a certain conclusion, not whether that conclusion is right or wrong.
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@gt12 here we go, appears it was changed last year to allow players to jump from the field of play and knock the ball back in.
But in another change, a player could jump from the field of play and knock the ball back after it has crossed the line. Such a player can also catch the ball after it has crossed the touchline and throw it back infield, often over the shoulder. This includes cases where the ball has crossed the touch-in-goal line as well.https://www.nzherald.co.nz/wanganui-chronicle/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503424&objectid=11825043
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For all I know the guidelines were revised! But according to the info my handy iPhone rugby laws app, he’s played according to them.
Where’s @Damo - he’s good for these questions.
@gt12 said in England vs All Blacks:
For all I know the guidelines were revised! But according to the info my handy iPhone rugby laws app, he’s played according to them.
Where’s @Damo - he’s good for these questions.
As stated below they changed the laws last year in one if the most needed law changes.
It is a lot simpler now. Ball is out if it touches a ground, player or something touching the.ground over the sideline (except that a player can't jump from in touch to knock it in).
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On the plus side many of us on here have been pissed of about NH view on a ball being out and the mucking around if it (Conor Murray is superb at it).
So it’s nice to see a NH team lose partially related to it.
@majorrage said in England vs All Blacks:
On the plus side many of us on here have been pissed of about NH view on a ball being out and the mucking around if it (Conor Murray is superb at it).
It was getting absurd at one stage where halfbacks would move the ball back along the ground with their hands. Now they have to use their feet.
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@majorrage said in England vs All Blacks:
On the plus side many of us on here have been pissed of about NH view on a ball being out and the mucking around if it (Conor Murray is superb at it).
It was getting absurd at one stage where halfbacks would move the ball back along the ground with their hands. Now they have to use their feet.
@bovidae said in England vs All Blacks:
@majorrage said in England vs All Blacks:
On the plus side many of us on here have been pissed of about NH view on a ball being out and the mucking around if it (Conor Murray is superb at it).
It was getting absurd at one stage where halfbacks would move the ball back along the ground with their hands. Now they have to use their feet.
It still is absurd. Seriously the last guy in the ruck is at full stretch with his fingertip on the next blokes arse, and his leg as far back as is physically possible. There is a mere shoelace which is "keeping it in the ruck", when the ball is about 2 metres behind where the action is.
Not even exaggerating!
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@bovidae said in England vs All Blacks:
@majorrage said in England vs All Blacks:
On the plus side many of us on here have been pissed of about NH view on a ball being out and the mucking around if it (Conor Murray is superb at it).
It was getting absurd at one stage where halfbacks would move the ball back along the ground with their hands. Now they have to use their feet.
It still is absurd. Seriously the last guy in the ruck is at full stretch with his fingertip on the next blokes arse, and his leg as far back as is physically possible. There is a mere shoelace which is "keeping it in the ruck", when the ball is about 2 metres behind where the action is.
Not even exaggerating!
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@bovidae said in England vs All Blacks:
@majorrage said in England vs All Blacks:
On the plus side many of us on here have been pissed of about NH view on a ball being out and the mucking around if it (Conor Murray is superb at it).
It was getting absurd at one stage where halfbacks would move the ball back along the ground with their hands. Now they have to use their feet.
It still is absurd. Seriously the last guy in the ruck is at full stretch with his fingertip on the next blokes arse, and his leg as far back as is physically possible. There is a mere shoelace which is "keeping it in the ruck", when the ball is about 2 metres behind where the action is.
Not even exaggerating!
@majorrage said in England vs All Blacks:
@bovidae said in England vs All Blacks:
@majorrage said in England vs All Blacks:
On the plus side many of us on here have been pissed of about NH view on a ball being out and the mucking around if it (Conor Murray is superb at it).
It was getting absurd at one stage where halfbacks would move the ball back along the ground with their hands. Now they have to use their feet.
It still is absurd. Seriously the last guy in the ruck is at full stretch with his fingertip on the next blokes arse, and his leg as far back as is physically possible. There is a mere shoelace which is "keeping it in the ruck", when the ball is about 2 metres behind where the action is.
Not even exaggerating!
Was it Andre Watson who said 'if a bird can shit on it, it is out'?
Obviously finding the right balance of law interpretation to create flow in the game (protect the halfback enough that the ball can be used by the attacking side) and stop sides taking the piss (as described above) still isn't right.
The issue has only been made worse by the unnecessary change to offside after England complained about Italy making them look silly. -
@majorrage said in England vs All Blacks:
@bovidae said in England vs All Blacks:
@majorrage said in England vs All Blacks:
On the plus side many of us on here have been pissed of about NH view on a ball being out and the mucking around if it (Conor Murray is superb at it).
It was getting absurd at one stage where halfbacks would move the ball back along the ground with their hands. Now they have to use their feet.
It still is absurd. Seriously the last guy in the ruck is at full stretch with his fingertip on the next blokes arse, and his leg as far back as is physically possible. There is a mere shoelace which is "keeping it in the ruck", when the ball is about 2 metres behind where the action is.
Not even exaggerating!
Was it Andre Watson who said 'if a bird can shit on it, it is out'?
Obviously finding the right balance of law interpretation to create flow in the game (protect the halfback enough that the ball can be used by the attacking side) and stop sides taking the piss (as described above) still isn't right.
The issue has only been made worse by the unnecessary change to offside after England complained about Italy making them look silly.@crucial said in England vs All Blacks:
@majorrage said in England vs All Blacks:
@bovidae said in England vs All Blacks:
@majorrage said in England vs All Blacks:
On the plus side many of us on here have been pissed of about NH view on a ball being out and the mucking around if it (Conor Murray is superb at it).
It was getting absurd at one stage where halfbacks would move the ball back along the ground with their hands. Now they have to use their feet.
It still is absurd. Seriously the last guy in the ruck is at full stretch with his fingertip on the next blokes arse, and his leg as far back as is physically possible. There is a mere shoelace which is "keeping it in the ruck", when the ball is about 2 metres behind where the action is.
Not even exaggerating!
Was it Andre Watson who said 'if a bird can shit on it, it is out'?
That's been the prescribed "definition" for at least 20 years. I don't think Andre can claim that one!
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@majorrage said in England vs All Blacks:
@bovidae said in England vs All Blacks:
@majorrage said in England vs All Blacks:
On the plus side many of us on here have been pissed of about NH view on a ball being out and the mucking around if it (Conor Murray is superb at it).
It was getting absurd at one stage where halfbacks would move the ball back along the ground with their hands. Now they have to use their feet.
It still is absurd. Seriously the last guy in the ruck is at full stretch with his fingertip on the next blokes arse, and his leg as far back as is physically possible. There is a mere shoelace which is "keeping it in the ruck", when the ball is about 2 metres behind where the action is.
Not even exaggerating!
Was it Andre Watson who said 'if a bird can shit on it, it is out'?
Obviously finding the right balance of law interpretation to create flow in the game (protect the halfback enough that the ball can be used by the attacking side) and stop sides taking the piss (as described above) still isn't right.
The issue has only been made worse by the unnecessary change to offside after England complained about Italy making them look silly.@crucial said in England vs All Blacks:
Was it Andre Watson who said 'if a bird can shit on it, it is out'?
Jonathan Kaplan.
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@crucial said in England vs All Blacks:
Was it Andre Watson who said 'if a bird can shit on it, it is out'?
Jonathan Kaplan.
@billy-webb said in England vs All Blacks:
@crucial said in England vs All Blacks:
Was it Andre Watson who said 'if a bird can shit on it, it is out'?
Jonathan Kaplan.
Kaplan. The bloke who last half the worlds credibility as a ref (not I), and then the other half once he set himself up on twitter (including I).
I used to read it religiously, as I thought he was a good ref. Until I noticed a pattern which means he just became a fan.
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Cully is on the Dmac bandwagon.
I may have to rewatch it to see how well Dmac did from first receiver, because he only talks about one example here:
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Cully is on the Dmac bandwagon.
I may have to rewatch it to see how well Dmac did from first receiver, because he only talks about one example here:
@gt12 said in England vs All Blacks:
Cully is on the Dmac bandwagon.
I may have to rewatch it to see how well Dmac did from first receiver, because he only talks about one example here:
That was my thoughts on the article as well. He uses one example to make a big call on.
I think all he has done is finally seen the reasons why the ABs want to go with a two playmaker system. It isn't for the old left/right theory it is for breaking rush defences. I don't think that BB is always forced to go infield and take the tackle, he is doing it to try and set a quick recycle that can be fed to DMac, who can then look for opportunities to step through and break the line.
At the moment they aren't overplaying that hand, not so much to keep powder dry for the future, but because they would rather perfect the move rather than put themselves under more pressure.
The move has risks as well, especially in the type of wet weather game we just had. If BB gets caught on the ground and DMac gets turned over then there a big spaces behind us to target with kicks or runs. -
@gt12 said in England vs All Blacks:
Cully is on the Dmac bandwagon.
I may have to rewatch it to see how well Dmac did from first receiver, because he only talks about one example here:
That was my thoughts on the article as well. He uses one example to make a big call on.
I think all he has done is finally seen the reasons why the ABs want to go with a two playmaker system. It isn't for the old left/right theory it is for breaking rush defences. I don't think that BB is always forced to go infield and take the tackle, he is doing it to try and set a quick recycle that can be fed to DMac, who can then look for opportunities to step through and break the line.
At the moment they aren't overplaying that hand, not so much to keep powder dry for the future, but because they would rather perfect the move rather than put themselves under more pressure.
The move has risks as well, especially in the type of wet weather game we just had. If BB gets caught on the ground and DMac gets turned over then there a big spaces behind us to target with kicks or runs.I don't know about that risk, if Bender is there covering the back, and Ioane isn't terrible back there either.
I'd been hoping for Dmac at 15 as starter, so I'm pleased with the two playmakers, but so far I don't think it's really payed off, and they pulled him right at the time he usually starts having a big effect. I'd love it if that were strategic, but at some point, we'll see three playmakers finish a game. The problem with that is that one of Bender or Ioane needs to go (or Ioane to 13 and pull a midfielder).Actually, that doesn't sound too bad.
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I don't know about that risk, if Bender is there covering the back, and Ioane isn't terrible back there either.
I'd been hoping for Dmac at 15 as starter, so I'm pleased with the two playmakers, but so far I don't think it's really payed off, and they pulled him right at the time he usually starts having a big effect. I'd love it if that were strategic, but at some point, we'll see three playmakers finish a game. The problem with that is that one of Bender or Ioane needs to go (or Ioane to 13 and pull a midfielder).Actually, that doesn't sound too bad.
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@gt12 in the example used in that article it was Bender that 'appeared' in order to take the offload after the break from DMac. Presumably that leaves only Reiko to cover the back which is a little risky should there be a turnover
That's a good point.
I watched the 62 minutes of DMac being on at 10 second skip intervals to find examples of him at first receiver, so may have missed one (possibly two), but it's a small sample size. I count six times he appeared at first receiver, mostly on the short side, sometimes with two options available (i.e., Barrett on the open). He certainly runs on to it more than Barrett, who tends to do his catch/pass, but it's a tiny sample size, so I'm hoping that Cully has seen something at training - or heard something from someone, to make such a big claim. Barrett can also make that run and that offload - in fact, I was wrong in my write up, as Barrett ran for the first time at the 33 minute mark, and tried the same inside step run that got Dmac away in the Cully example.
Anyway, I do think that Dmac looks dangerous at first receiver, but as you can see below, it's pretty rocks and diamonds - probably only reinforcing the view of some that he's better attacking from 15, rather than at 10. Another interesting thing is how often DMac shows up outside Barrett at second receiver (no notes sorry), where he also made one line break. I wonder why Cully didn't mention that, because I'm sure it happened more than 6 times.
My notes (Dmac at 1st receiver):
17:42 pass to SBW (short side)
17:52 pass to Goodhue (short side)
40:41 kick for Ioane (short side)
41:13 Cully’s example with the offload to B Smith
57:49 knocks it on then gets tossed around by Shields (we get the penalty)
60:48 kick charged by Farrell
