Grace Millane
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@majorrage said in Grace Millane:
@jegga said in Grace Millane:
@majorrage the Nz press have given her a very long honeymoon particularly after she managed to soil the gene pool .
Which land mass do you live on? What would the press there do if it was discovered that the government held youth camps that regularly resulted in convictions for sex offences?
Our press here did fuck all.Her Majesty's patch.
No way am I touching a question around British press and potential cover-ups!!!
Ok , I bet Teresa May isn’t regularly on the cover of women’s magazines in designer clothes , her teeth photoshopped to something approaching human size . It’s bizarre, the only good thing about it is it won’t last and when the press do turn on her it will likely be brutal .
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@rancid-schnitzel said in Grace Millane:
I think the definition of threaten is pretty obvious. I also think it's pretty obvious that the NZ tourism industry didn't need the PM's intervention. How far should this be taken btw? Should the PM also apologise on behalf of NZ nationals who commit murder overseas?
If the spotlight should be on anything it should be about hooking up with random people on Tinder. That's always a potential risk regardless of what country you're in.
In principle, I don't disagree with you (for once). However, Im simply stating what the reaction here is that I've seen. Bones, Cato, Crucial etc may disagree with me from what they have seen, I'm just giving one mans perspective - mine.
Ardern has no vested interest in Tinder (as far as I know ... ) so not quite the same.
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Well a big bunch of you seem to hate what the PM said. But I can tell you over here in France , its making news and its been really well received. It was a 1 minute clip for gods sake.
I don't know what the issue with what she said is. She said we pride ourselves on our hospitality. Which we do or we did when I lived there. She said the government will support the police in anything they need to close the case. And she said she should have been safe here and she wasn't.
I share some of her sentiment, Is it the use of the word shame? I feel embarrassed or ashamed it happened in New Zealand. I tell loads of people to go visit, you'll love it. There is a big difference between that and feeling responsible!
Whether its reality or not, people internationally perceive NZ as being a very safe place. If this had happened in Mexico I highly doubt it would have got the same level of attention.
She didn't say its all white dudes fault, she didn't say its the fault of all kiwis. She apologised to a parent that their child won't be coming home. Seems like a really human thing to do and really the least she can do under the circumstances.
Imagine it flipped a young kiwi backpacker dies in Paris. She's pretty and white so the media give a shit about it and ask the French president to comment. How would you feel if he said "Well the police are looking into that, nothing to do with me" That would be pretty cold.
You may not like the PM, I am hardly a super fan myself, but to get your panties in a bunch because she apologised to a grieving family, that the media were bound to ask about, that's what is triggering you? Really.
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@mooshld said in Grace Millane:
Well a big bunch of you seem to hate what the PM said. But I can tell you over here in France , its making news and its been really well received. It was a 1 minute clip for gods sake.
I don't know what the issue with what she said is. She said we pride ourselves on our hospitality. Which we do or we did when I lived there. She said the government will support the police in anything they need to close the case. And she said she should have been safe here and she wasn't.
I share some of her sentiment, Is it the use of the word shame? I feel embarrassed or ashamed it happened in New Zealand. I tell loads of people to go visit, you'll love it. There is a big difference between that and feeling responsible!
Whether its reality or not, people internationally perceive NZ as being a very safe place. If this had happened in Mexico I highly doubt it would have got the same level of attention.
She didn't say its all white dudes fault, she didn't say its the fault of all kiwis. She apologised to a parent that their child won't be coming home. Seems like a really human thing to do and really the least she can do under the circumstances.
Imagine it flipped a young kiwi backpacker dies in Paris. She's pretty and white so the media give a shit about it and ask the French president to comment. How would you feel if he said "Well the police are looking into that, nothing to do with me" That would be pretty cold.
You may not like the PM, I am hardly a super fan myself, but to get your panties in a bunch because she apologised to a grieving family, that the media were bound to ask about, that's what is triggering you? Really.
Ok, once again there for four kids sexually assaulted at a labour youth camp this year. This is the third time its happened, labours response was to keep it out the press, not inform the parents, feed a bogus story to the press smearing a national mp and then trot out a sexual abuse councillor that had worked for New Labour , the greens and labour to say what they'd done was best practice.
i get that with a bit of distance from NZ what she did looks different, from here it looks pretty cynical in comparison to the way they've treated victims of crime on their own watch by their own people-no tears and only the most begrudging of admissions . I'm sure it played well overseas, thats exactly what she wanted it to do.
Its been mentioned earlier if she wanted to apologise she could have worded it differently, my memories not what it used to be and I'm a bit nervous about asking the mrs but I'm fairly certain I didn't murder any backpackers in the weekend and have nothing for her to apologise for.
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@majorrage said in Grace Millane:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Grace Millane:
I think the definition of threaten is pretty obvious. I also think it's pretty obvious that the NZ tourism industry didn't need the PM's intervention. How far should this be taken btw? Should the PM also apologise on behalf of NZ nationals who commit murder overseas?
If the spotlight should be on anything it should be about hooking up with random people on Tinder. That's always a potential risk regardless of what country you're in.
In principle, I don't disagree with you (for once). However, Im simply stating what the reaction here is that I've seen. Bones, Cato, Crucial etc may disagree with me from what they have seen, I'm just giving one mans perspective - mine.
Ardern has no vested interest in Tinder (as far as I know ... ) so not quite the same.
I didn't mean that Adern should address the Twitter issue, but that it should be more the focus of this story rather than whether NZ is a safe country. Shit, it's not as if tourists are being knocked off by the hundreds.
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@majorrage to be fair I've hardly been out since, not mentioned at a Xmas party on Sat night that I hardly remember and WFH since then. However, I'm pretty unimpressed at being drawn into an apology for something I'm dubious to my involvement in.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in Grace Millane:
@majorrage said in Grace Millane:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Grace Millane:
I think the definition of threaten is pretty obvious. I also think it's pretty obvious that the NZ tourism industry didn't need the PM's intervention. How far should this be taken btw? Should the PM also apologise on behalf of NZ nationals who commit murder overseas?
If the spotlight should be on anything it should be about hooking up with random people on Tinder. That's always a potential risk regardless of what country you're in.
In principle, I don't disagree with you (for once). However, Im simply stating what the reaction here is that I've seen. Bones, Cato, Crucial etc may disagree with me from what they have seen, I'm just giving one mans perspective - mine.
Ardern has no vested interest in Tinder (as far as I know ... ) so not quite the same.
I didn't mean that Adern should address the Twitter issue, but that it should be more the focus of this story rather than whether NZ is a safe country. Shit, it's not as if tourists are being knocked off by the hundreds.
I think that's the point, and having the Pm address it drives home the image of NZ being, really, despite this horrible act, a good and safe place to visit "I mean, even the PM was on the news about it".
That is essentially a quote from my boss this morning. We are looking to send some students to NZ and this type of (essentially) sales by the PM plays well here in risk-averse Japan.
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@jegga said in Grace Millane:
Ok, once again there for four kids sexually assaulted at a labour youth camp this year. This is the third time its happened, labours response was to keep it out the press, not inform the parents, feed a bogus story to the press smearing a national mp and then trot out a sexual abuse councillor that had worked for New Labour , the greens and labour to say what they'd done was best practice.
i get that with a bit of distance from NZ what she did looks different, from here it looks pretty cynical in comparison to the way they've treated victims of crime on their own watch by their own people-no tears and only the most begrudging of admissions . I'm sure it played well overseas, thats exactly what she wanted it to do.
Its been mentioned earlier if she wanted to apologise she could have worded it differently, my memories not what it used to be and I'm a bit nervous about asking the mrs but I'm fairly certain I didn't murder any backpackers in the weekend and have nothing for her to apologise for.
So should she have apologised for other stuff, maybe, but they media weren't asking her about that were they?
You seem to apply it was a well planned media move, maybe, but seemed pretty genuine to me. Feels like its being painted with peoples personal feelings about who delivered it.
I called my mate last week and said "I am so sorry that your father passed away like that, if there is anything I can do please let me know". She doesn't now think I killed him. How is this hard to grasp, saying I am sorry you daughter died is not the same as saying its my fault she died. Its basic human empathy.
I felt shame every Waitangi day that I saw drunk arseholes doing a piss poor haka in front of the house of commons or acting like they own the circle line. Just like I felt pride when I read about a bunch of kiwis that took an irish old boy out on the piss after someone robbed him at the rugby last month. Even paid his taxi home. I didn't participate in any of those events.
I wish this hadn't happened in NZ and I am sorry that it did. If it had to happen I would have preferred it to happen anywhere else.
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To change the topic a bit. Its incidents like this that make me glad I am a dude.
I guess only Mokey can really relate. But imagine you fancy a bit of strange. So you fire up tinder. Now you can pick or choose, but you better do it carefully cause any of these dudes also could just kill you when hes done.
Worst case scenario for a dude is either having to flick over to the browser after an hour of rejections and take matters in hand yourself, or climb out a window and get a new phone number.
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@bones said in Grace Millane:
@mooshld
https://english.sakshi.com/crime/2018/07/14/how-killer-woman-priya-seth-turned-tinder-dating-app-into-murder-trapWell thats horrifying I am glad I got married before Tinder.
Stay safe out there young ferners!
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@mooshld said in Grace Millane:
Well a big bunch of you seem to hate what the PM said. But I can tell you over here in France , its making news and its been really well received. It was a 1 minute clip for gods sake.
I don't know what the issue with what she said is. She said we pride ourselves on our hospitality. Which we do or we did when I lived there. She said the government will support the police in anything they need to close the case. And she said she should have been safe here and she wasn't.
I share some of her sentiment, Is it the use of the word shame? I feel embarrassed or ashamed it happened in New Zealand. I tell loads of people to go visit, you'll love it. There is a big difference between that and feeling responsible!
Whether its reality or not, people internationally perceive NZ as being a very safe place. If this had happened in Mexico I highly doubt it would have got the same level of attention.
She didn't say its all white dudes fault, she didn't say its the fault of all kiwis. She apologised to a parent that their child won't be coming home. Seems like a really human thing to do and really the least she can do under the circumstances.
Imagine it flipped a young kiwi backpacker dies in Paris. She's pretty and white so the media give a shit about it and ask the French president to comment. How would you feel if he said "Well the police are looking into that, nothing to do with me" That would be pretty cold.
You may not like the PM, I am hardly a super fan myself, but to get your panties in a bunch because she apologised to a grieving family, that the media were bound to ask about, that's what is triggering you? Really.
That would be fine if that's what she said, but it's not. She said:
“So on behalf of New Zealand, I want to apologise to Grace’s family – your daughter should have been safe here and she wasn’t, and I’m sorry for that.”
I'm sorry for the families loss, but I am not apologising because I didn't have a thing to do with it. Great that it's being well received by some, but it's still an absurd thing to say.
She has also gone on to say people can "probably read between the lines" about her thoughts on the guy getting name suppression.
That's the PM herself undermining the courts, giving the decence laywer plenty of ammo to claim he is not getting a fair trial and to argue for a reduced sentence - I hope like fuck that doesn't work if he's guilty as charged but it shouldn't even be an issue.
And then as @jegga points out her tears and apology are very selective. The families of children abused at Labour youth camps got worse than nothing. So at best this is a fake apology to try limit damage to tourism, which IMO was completely unnecessary unless people can point to evidence or examples that numbers will drop as a result. At worst it's her trying to, as is common with her, come across as holier than thou for poltical purposes while her dumpster fire of a government lurches from one disaster to another.
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@no-quarter said in Grace Millane:
@mooshld said in Grace Millane:
Well a big bunch of you seem to hate what the PM said. But I can tell you over here in France , its making news and its been really well received. It was a 1 minute clip for gods sake.
I don't know what the issue with what she said is. She said we pride ourselves on our hospitality. Which we do or we did when I lived there. She said the government will support the police in anything they need to close the case. And she said she should have been safe here and she wasn't.
I share some of her sentiment, Is it the use of the word shame? I feel embarrassed or ashamed it happened in New Zealand. I tell loads of people to go visit, you'll love it. There is a big difference between that and feeling responsible!
Whether its reality or not, people internationally perceive NZ as being a very safe place. If this had happened in Mexico I highly doubt it would have got the same level of attention.
She didn't say its all white dudes fault, she didn't say its the fault of all kiwis. She apologised to a parent that their child won't be coming home. Seems like a really human thing to do and really the least she can do under the circumstances.
Imagine it flipped a young kiwi backpacker dies in Paris. She's pretty and white so the media give a shit about it and ask the French president to comment. How would you feel if he said "Well the police are looking into that, nothing to do with me" That would be pretty cold.
You may not like the PM, I am hardly a super fan myself, but to get your panties in a bunch because she apologised to a grieving family, that the media were bound to ask about, that's what is triggering you? Really.
That would be fine if that's what she said, but it's not. She said:
“So on behalf of New Zealand, I want to apologise to Grace’s family – your daughter should have been safe here and she wasn’t, and I’m sorry for that.”
I'm sorry for the families loss, but I am not apologising because I didn't have a thing to do with it. Great that it's being well received by some, but it's still an absurd thing to say.
She has also gone on to say people can "probably read between the lines" about her thoughts on the guy getting name suppression.
That's the PM herself undermining the courts, giving the decence laywer plenty of ammo to claim he is not getting a fair trial and to argue for a reduced sentence - I hope like fuck that doesn't work if he's guilty as charged but it shouldn't even be an issue.
And then as @jegga points out her tears and apology are very selective. The families of children abused at Labour youth camps got worse than nothing. So at best this is a fake apology to try limit damage to tourism, which IMO was completely unnecessary unless people can point to evidence or examples that numbers will drop as a result. At worst it's her trying to, as is common with her, come across as holier than thou for poltical purposes while her dumpster fire of a government lurches from one disaster to another.
I am not getting into other incidents. Its probably just another example of the same thing being said having different meanings to different people. Lets agree to differ but for me.
I'm sorry your girlfriend left you is not equal to its my fault your girlfriend left you.
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@mooshld she used the word apologise, not sorry which carries a different meaning in this context.
But fair enough, agree to disagree
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@mooshld just out of interest what do you think about the way they handled the latest sexual assault case ?
Because that behaviour particularly so early in their first term has clouded everything that’s come out of her mouth since for me.Especially compared to the way the left and the press here behaved after Key made a cock of himself pulling a waitresses hair.
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@mooshld Doesn't even have to be Tinder-related. I was a bit younger than Grace when I lived overseas. One day I got off the subway to walk home for lunch before afternoon classes and some guy in a suit grabbed me and tried to drag me down an alley. I was wearing jeans and a sweater.
Acting like this shit only happens when women are drunk or underdressed or meeting a stranger in a bar is completely false. There are fuckwits everywhere who think they are entitled to things they aren't. No, I don't blame all men, or all Taiwanese people for the incident. It was one man who got a punch to the head for his efforts.
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@antipodean said in Grace Millane:
@raznomore As TR put it; sympathies and condolences, sure. But this?
“There is this overwhelming sense of hurt and shame that this has happened in our country, a place that prides itself on our hospitality, on our manaakitanga,” she said, using the Māori word for welcoming others.
“So on behalf of New Zealand, I want to apologise to Grace’s family – your daughter should have been safe here and she wasn’t, and I’m sorry for that.”
Asserting shame and an apology on behalf of the nation is gross overreach IMO.
I'll say again. Until a murder is proved what are "we" apologising for?
