Black Caps v India
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@Chris-B for mine, Henry has been significantly better than Southee for a long time. I know he's on the outer now but it's a bit of a travesty that Henry hasn't started more in the past four years - he's getting some very unjustified stick on here due to people remembering him taking tap at the death. Which to me is a bit odd as basically all bowlers take tap at the death - anything less than 10 an over in the final 10 is seen as a failure for batting teams these days.
IMO his record speaks for itself and he and Boult could form a lethal opening combination.
@No-Quarter plus his record in England is nuts. This definitely seems to be a stats v feelings instance
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Guptill in place of Munro, Lockie in place of CDG - that's a capable Kiwi XI.
Don't go by the results in this series, yes it looks ugly. But other teams are not as formidable as India. I think Kiwis are likely to make semi-final in the WC. Obviously top order needs to make it count - but Guptill, Kane, Ross, I think they can do it more often than not.
Astle is a tempting pick, he can obviously bat. But I think NZ has to pick the leggie that's more likely to get wickets, and Astle looks more of a T20 leggie to me, not a guy who can get that breakthrough against a team that plays spin decent and has a partnership going.
Boult, Henry, Santner, Sodhi, Neesham, Add Lockie or another bowler who you can bank on for 10 quality overs. There's enough batting up top to needlessly pick guys like Munro, CDG. Maybe use Munro against teams with weaker new ball bowlers in a few games in the WC, but not against the quality of Bumrah, Cummins, Rabada, etc.
@newsjunkie said in Black Caps v India:
Guptill in place of Munro, Lockie in place of CDG - that's a capable Kiwi XI.
Don't go by the results in this series, yes it looks ugly. But other teams are not as formidable as India. I think Kiwis are likely to make semi-final in the WC. Obviously top order needs to make it count - but Guptill, Kane, Ross, I think they can do it more often than not.
Astle is a tempting pick, he can obviously bat. But I think NZ has to pick the leggie that's more likely to get wickets, and Astle looks more of a T20 leggie to me, not a guy who can get that breakthrough against a team that plays spin decent and has a partnership going.
Boult, Henry, Santner, Sodhi, Neesham, Add Lockie or another bowler who you can bank on for 10 quality overs. There's enough batting up top to needlessly pick guys like Munro, CDG. Maybe use Munro against teams with weaker new ball bowlers in a few games in the WC, but not against the quality of Bumrah, Cummins, Rabada, etc.
Guptill finding some form will obviously help - he was significantly worse than Munro in this series - seemed hell bent on destruction, but also looked like he might not be far away.
Munro has to go from the best XI. In reality, we are short just a Virender Sehwag and a Garfield Sobers, from having a pretty good team!
We will have to use Henry Nicholls to open, which is going to be relatively untested going into the World Cup.
Number 7 batsman is the other big problem. In the bowling line-up you suggest, Santner is a weak No. 7, Henry is a weak 8 and Sodhi, Ferguson, Boult are collectively a poor 9,10,11.
Gary Sobers would solve this problem! Otherwise it might have to be de Grandhomme, who has mainly been a liability in ODIs this year - or just maybe Corey Anderson - though how he would remain unbroken throughout a World Cup is a mystery beyond science.
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@newsjunkie said in Black Caps v India:
Guptill in place of Munro, Lockie in place of CDG - that's a capable Kiwi XI.
Don't go by the results in this series, yes it looks ugly. But other teams are not as formidable as India. I think Kiwis are likely to make semi-final in the WC. Obviously top order needs to make it count - but Guptill, Kane, Ross, I think they can do it more often than not.
Astle is a tempting pick, he can obviously bat. But I think NZ has to pick the leggie that's more likely to get wickets, and Astle looks more of a T20 leggie to me, not a guy who can get that breakthrough against a team that plays spin decent and has a partnership going.
Boult, Henry, Santner, Sodhi, Neesham, Add Lockie or another bowler who you can bank on for 10 quality overs. There's enough batting up top to needlessly pick guys like Munro, CDG. Maybe use Munro against teams with weaker new ball bowlers in a few games in the WC, but not against the quality of Bumrah, Cummins, Rabada, etc.
Guptill finding some form will obviously help - he was significantly worse than Munro in this series - seemed hell bent on destruction, but also looked like he might not be far away.
Munro has to go from the best XI. In reality, we are short just a Virender Sehwag and a Garfield Sobers, from having a pretty good team!
We will have to use Henry Nicholls to open, which is going to be relatively untested going into the World Cup.
Number 7 batsman is the other big problem. In the bowling line-up you suggest, Santner is a weak No. 7, Henry is a weak 8 and Sodhi, Ferguson, Boult are collectively a poor 9,10,11.
Gary Sobers would solve this problem! Otherwise it might have to be de Grandhomme, who has mainly been a liability in ODIs this year - or just maybe Corey Anderson - though how he would remain unbroken throughout a World Cup is a mystery beyond science.
@Chris-B said in Black Caps v India:
@newsjunkie said in Black Caps v India:
Guptill in place of Munro, Lockie in place of CDG - that's a capable Kiwi XI.
Don't go by the results in this series, yes it looks ugly. But other teams are not as formidable as India. I think Kiwis are likely to make semi-final in the WC. Obviously top order needs to make it count - but Guptill, Kane, Ross, I think they can do it more often than not.
Astle is a tempting pick, he can obviously bat. But I think NZ has to pick the leggie that's more likely to get wickets, and Astle looks more of a T20 leggie to me, not a guy who can get that breakthrough against a team that plays spin decent and has a partnership going.
Boult, Henry, Santner, Sodhi, Neesham, Add Lockie or another bowler who you can bank on for 10 quality overs. There's enough batting up top to needlessly pick guys like Munro, CDG. Maybe use Munro against teams with weaker new ball bowlers in a few games in the WC, but not against the quality of Bumrah, Cummins, Rabada, etc.
Guptill finding some form will obviously help - he was significantly worse than Munro in this series - seemed hell bent on destruction, but also looked like he might not be far away.
Munro has to go from the best XI. In reality, we are short just a Virender Sehwag and a Garfield Sobers, from having a pretty good team!
We will have to use Henry Nicholls to open, which is going to be relatively untested going into the World Cup.
Number 7 batsman is the other big problem. In the bowling line-up you suggest, Santner is a weak No. 7, Henry is a weak 8 and Sodhi, Ferguson, Boult are collectively a poor 9,10,11.
Gary Sobers would solve this problem! Otherwise it might have to be de Grandhomme, who has mainly been a liability in ODIs this year - or just maybe Corey Anderson - though how he would remain unbroken throughout a World Cup is a mystery beyond science.
Anderson managed it four years ago.
Neesham/Anderson certainly seem to be a neat answer. They can bat 6/7 and between them make up the fifth bowler (behind Santner, Boult, Ferguson and Southee/Henry/Sodhi/Astle), plus not requiring either to bowl 10 should help on the injury front. I still think Kane should roll his arm over a couple of times a game as well.
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps v India:
@newsjunkie said in Black Caps v India:
Guptill in place of Munro, Lockie in place of CDG - that's a capable Kiwi XI.
Don't go by the results in this series, yes it looks ugly. But other teams are not as formidable as India. I think Kiwis are likely to make semi-final in the WC. Obviously top order needs to make it count - but Guptill, Kane, Ross, I think they can do it more often than not.
Astle is a tempting pick, he can obviously bat. But I think NZ has to pick the leggie that's more likely to get wickets, and Astle looks more of a T20 leggie to me, not a guy who can get that breakthrough against a team that plays spin decent and has a partnership going.
Boult, Henry, Santner, Sodhi, Neesham, Add Lockie or another bowler who you can bank on for 10 quality overs. There's enough batting up top to needlessly pick guys like Munro, CDG. Maybe use Munro against teams with weaker new ball bowlers in a few games in the WC, but not against the quality of Bumrah, Cummins, Rabada, etc.
Guptill finding some form will obviously help - he was significantly worse than Munro in this series - seemed hell bent on destruction, but also looked like he might not be far away.
Munro has to go from the best XI. In reality, we are short just a Virender Sehwag and a Garfield Sobers, from having a pretty good team!
We will have to use Henry Nicholls to open, which is going to be relatively untested going into the World Cup.
Number 7 batsman is the other big problem. In the bowling line-up you suggest, Santner is a weak No. 7, Henry is a weak 8 and Sodhi, Ferguson, Boult are collectively a poor 9,10,11.
Gary Sobers would solve this problem! Otherwise it might have to be de Grandhomme, who has mainly been a liability in ODIs this year - or just maybe Corey Anderson - though how he would remain unbroken throughout a World Cup is a mystery beyond science.
Anderson managed it four years ago.
Neesham/Anderson certainly seem to be a neat answer. They can bat 6/7 and between them make up the fifth bowler (behind Santner, Boult, Ferguson and Southee/Henry/Sodhi/Astle), plus not requiring either to bowl 10 should help on the injury front. I still think Kane should roll his arm over a couple of times a game as well.
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps v India:
@Cyclops Yeah - I'm surprised Kane didn't bowl at all in this series.
I think it is crazy. He is a decent 7th option, and a decent 2nd spin option on some pitches. Plus he can buy wickets, which is sometimes just what is needed in ODI's
My WC team would be
Nicholls
Guptill
Williamson
Taylor
Latham
Munro
Neesham
De Grandhomme
Sodhi
Ferguson
BoultBoult, Ferguson, Sodhi to bowl 10 each, with Neesham, De Grandhomme, Munro and Williamson to share the other 20.
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@KiwiMurph said in Black Caps v India:
Looks like the Wellington crowd was 13,133.
Just googled the capacity of Hagley Oval and the interweb tells me it is 8,000.
I'll not comment further at this time.
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It just builds a case for playing more cricket at the Basin if not even India can attract a decent crowd.
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It just builds a case for playing more cricket at the Basin if not even India can attract a decent crowd.
@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:
It just builds a case for playing more cricket at the Basin if not even India can attract a decent crowd.
Lying on a bank or spacious white seats vs shitty yellow plastic ones.....No comparison.
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@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:
It just builds a case for playing more cricket at the Basin if not even India can attract a decent crowd.
Lying on a bank or spacious white seats vs shitty yellow plastic ones.....No comparison.
@MN5 said in Black Caps v India:
@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:
It just builds a case for playing more cricket at the Basin if not even India can attract a decent crowd.
Lying on a bank or spacious white seats vs shitty yellow plastic ones.....No comparison.
Yeah. Shorter games - Rugby, T20s etc can work at the stadium, but 6+ hours in those shitty seats is a bit much. I'd say people get put off at Eden park for the same reasons - man Auckland needs a proper cricket ground.
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@MN5 said in Black Caps v India:
@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:
It just builds a case for playing more cricket at the Basin if not even India can attract a decent crowd.
Lying on a bank or spacious white seats vs shitty yellow plastic ones.....No comparison.
Yeah. Shorter games - Rugby, T20s etc can work at the stadium, but 6+ hours in those shitty seats is a bit much. I'd say people get put off at Eden park for the same reasons - man Auckland needs a proper cricket ground.
@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:
@MN5 said in Black Caps v India:
@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:
It just builds a case for playing more cricket at the Basin if not even India can attract a decent crowd.
Lying on a bank or spacious white seats vs shitty yellow plastic ones.....No comparison.
Yeah. Shorter games - Rugby, T20s etc can work at the stadium, but 6+ hours in those shitty seats is a bit much. I'd say people get put off at Eden park for the same reasons - man Auckland needs a proper cricket ground.
Especially when there's a T20 at said stadium a few days later.
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@MN5 said in Black Caps v India:
@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:
It just builds a case for playing more cricket at the Basin if not even India can attract a decent crowd.
Lying on a bank or spacious white seats vs shitty yellow plastic ones.....No comparison.
Yeah. Shorter games - Rugby, T20s etc can work at the stadium, but 6+ hours in those shitty seats is a bit much. I'd say people get put off at Eden park for the same reasons - man Auckland needs a proper cricket ground.
@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:
@MN5 said in Black Caps v India:
@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:
It just builds a case for playing more cricket at the Basin if not even India can attract a decent crowd.
Lying on a bank or spacious white seats vs shitty yellow plastic ones.....No comparison.
Yeah. Shorter games - Rugby, T20s etc can work at the stadium, but 6+ hours in those shitty seats is a bit much. I'd say people get put off at Eden park for the same reasons - man Auckland needs a proper cricket ground.
Yeah a mate of mine in our fb group chat whinged that none of us went then later on he whinged how shit it was.
I was perfectly happy watching from the couch
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps v India:
@Cyclops Yeah - I'm surprised Kane didn't bowl at all in this series.
I think it is crazy. He is a decent 7th option, and a decent 2nd spin option on some pitches. Plus he can buy wickets, which is sometimes just what is needed in ODI's
My WC team would be
Nicholls
Guptill
Williamson
Taylor
Latham
Munro
Neesham
De Grandhomme
Sodhi
Ferguson
BoultBoult, Ferguson, Sodhi to bowl 10 each, with Neesham, De Grandhomme, Munro and Williamson to share the other 20.
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Black Caps v India:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps v India:
@Cyclops Yeah - I'm surprised Kane didn't bowl at all in this series.
I think it is crazy. He is a decent 7th option, and a decent 2nd spin option on some pitches. Plus he can buy wickets, which is sometimes just what is needed in ODI's
My WC team would be
Nicholls
Guptill
Williamson
Taylor
Latham
Munro
Neesham
De Grandhomme
Sodhi
Ferguson
BoultBoult, Ferguson, Sodhi to bowl 10 each, with Neesham, De Grandhomme, Munro and Williamson to share the other 20.
I think the last two ODIs have shown that we need three frontline seamers. Henry and Boult both bowled out early or had got through 6-7 over spells early in those games meaning we struggled at the death having to improvise. Having a third genuine pace bowling option would mean that we could mix up the attack a bit more and still have resources up our sleeve. The exception to that is on genuine spinning pitches where you want two frontline spinners.
I agree with you on the mix-and-match batting allrounders/part-timers for the 5th bowler though. I feel like T20 has shown that rapidly changing bowlers (never more than spells of 2-3 overs) still allows bowlers to be effective so I think that we need to be more variable in who bowls.
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@akan004 said in Black Caps v India:
So the biggest city in NZ with by far and away the largest Indian population doesn't get a ODI. Do these guys not like making money?
NZC had a falling out with Eden Park I believe. Lots of issues, including people that live in the area being absolute fucking killjoys and making it difficult to have events that go past a certain time. But also that it's not a cricket ground. I'm sure other posters can elaborate further but the situation is an absolute farce.
@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:
@akan004 said in Black Caps v India:
So the biggest city in NZ with by far and away the largest Indian population doesn't get a ODI. Do these guys not like making money?
NZC had a falling out with Eden Park I believe. Lots of issues, including people that live in the area being absolute fucking killjoys and making it difficult to have events that go past a certain time. But also that it's not a cricket ground. I'm sure other posters can elaborate further but the situation is an absolute farce.
Actually it comes done to the fact the Eden Park games need to finish by 10PM but Star Sports want the games to start at 3PM. I guess NZC must make more from the broadcasting rights than they do from ticket sales:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12092682 -
@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:
@akan004 said in Black Caps v India:
So the biggest city in NZ with by far and away the largest Indian population doesn't get a ODI. Do these guys not like making money?
NZC had a falling out with Eden Park I believe. Lots of issues, including people that live in the area being absolute fucking killjoys and making it difficult to have events that go past a certain time. But also that it's not a cricket ground. I'm sure other posters can elaborate further but the situation is an absolute farce.
Actually it comes done to the fact the Eden Park games need to finish by 10PM but Star Sports want the games to start at 3PM. I guess NZC must make more from the broadcasting rights than they do from ticket sales:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12092682@LABCAT Look at you dropping fact bombs.
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps v India:
@Cyclops Yeah - I'm surprised Kane didn't bowl at all in this series.
I think it is crazy. He is a decent 7th option, and a decent 2nd spin option on some pitches. Plus he can buy wickets, which is sometimes just what is needed in ODI's
My WC team would be
Nicholls
Guptill
Williamson
Taylor
Latham
Munro
Neesham
De Grandhomme
Sodhi
Ferguson
BoultBoult, Ferguson, Sodhi to bowl 10 each, with Neesham, De Grandhomme, Munro and Williamson to share the other 20.
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Black Caps v India:
My WC team would be
Nicholls
Guptill
Williamson
Taylor
Latham
Munro
Neesham
De Grandhomme
Sodhi
Ferguson
BoultBoult, Ferguson, Sodhi to bowl 10 each, with Neesham, De Grandhomme, Munro and Williamson to share the other 20.
It's concerning that the only bowler who's a certainty is Boult (and to a lesser extent Neesham).
I don't think we can afford twenty overs of the Colins and Jimmy (and Kane not bowling himself) and I don't really think their batting warrants two Colins. I'm not even sure about one!
Sodhi or Santner? Sodhi always looks a bit more likely to take wickets, but that doesn't necessarily seem to translate to reality. That should be the primary consideration, but if it's a tie then Santner's batting is better.
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@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:
@akan004 said in Black Caps v India:
So the biggest city in NZ with by far and away the largest Indian population doesn't get a ODI. Do these guys not like making money?
NZC had a falling out with Eden Park I believe. Lots of issues, including people that live in the area being absolute fucking killjoys and making it difficult to have events that go past a certain time. But also that it's not a cricket ground. I'm sure other posters can elaborate further but the situation is an absolute farce.
Actually it comes done to the fact the Eden Park games need to finish by 10PM but Star Sports want the games to start at 3PM. I guess NZC must make more from the broadcasting rights than they do from ticket sales:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12092682@LABCAT said in Black Caps v India:
@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:
@akan004 said in Black Caps v India:
So the biggest city in NZ with by far and away the largest Indian population doesn't get a ODI. Do these guys not like making money?
NZC had a falling out with Eden Park I believe. Lots of issues, including people that live in the area being absolute fucking killjoys and making it difficult to have events that go past a certain time. But also that it's not a cricket ground. I'm sure other posters can elaborate further but the situation is an absolute farce.
Actually it comes done to the fact the Eden Park games need to finish by 10PM but Star Sports want the games to start at 3PM. I guess NZC must make more from the broadcasting rights than they do from ticket sales:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12092682Well yeah, as per my post it's difficult to have events that go past a certain time. That they make most of their money through broadcasting when playing India is self-evident, but not the root cause of the problem.
NZC have also made it clear they are not happy with Eden Park as a venue:
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/sport/cricket/unaffordable-and-wrong-size-nz-cricket-sink-boot-into-eden-park-they-push-new-auckland-international-venue?variant=tb_v_1It's not just the Indian series. Two matches for the whole summer against Sri Lanka, India and Bangladesh paints a pretty clear picture. Auckland is in desperate need of a proper cricket ground.
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@LABCAT said in Black Caps v India:
@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:
@akan004 said in Black Caps v India:
So the biggest city in NZ with by far and away the largest Indian population doesn't get a ODI. Do these guys not like making money?
NZC had a falling out with Eden Park I believe. Lots of issues, including people that live in the area being absolute fucking killjoys and making it difficult to have events that go past a certain time. But also that it's not a cricket ground. I'm sure other posters can elaborate further but the situation is an absolute farce.
Actually it comes done to the fact the Eden Park games need to finish by 10PM but Star Sports want the games to start at 3PM. I guess NZC must make more from the broadcasting rights than they do from ticket sales:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12092682Well yeah, as per my post it's difficult to have events that go past a certain time. That they make most of their money through broadcasting when playing India is self-evident, but not the root cause of the problem.
NZC have also made it clear they are not happy with Eden Park as a venue:
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/sport/cricket/unaffordable-and-wrong-size-nz-cricket-sink-boot-into-eden-park-they-push-new-auckland-international-venue?variant=tb_v_1It's not just the Indian series. Two matches for the whole summer against Sri Lanka, India and Bangladesh paints a pretty clear picture. Auckland is in desperate need of a proper cricket ground.
@No-Quarter Is the Speedway still the preferred place? Traffic around there would be a nightmare.
I remember Jeremy Wells pushing for a cricket venue in Victoria Park but people said it wouldn't work (this was before Hagley Oval worked).
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Which cricket ground had the highest attendance in the India series? Was Wellington the worst?
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Just realised the BCs have a warm-up (or confidence breaker) against India at the Oval followed by another potential embarrassment against the Windies two days later in Bristol.
The Oval game should see good attendance from the usual cricket mad Indian crowd but a Windies game up the road from Brixton would have been a better fixture if it had rolled that way.All games, including warm ups are ticketed through the main website and it may be worth checking back after seating is completed for any new ones to come on the market..
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