2019 under 20's

[Stargazer]

I compared this latest list to that for the first camp.

Players invited for the first camp, but not for this final camp:

• Tane Te Aho - Wellington (hooker)
• Jack Gray - Auckland (fullback)
• Iosefa Maloney-Fiaola - Bay of Plenty (lock?)
• Josiah Tavita-Metcalfe - Hawkes Bay (prop)

.
Named on the last list but not on the first:

• Matt Graham Williams - Ta$man
• Josh Hill - Otago
• Isileli Manu - Auckland
• Kershawl Sykes Martin - Ta$man
• Emoni Narawa - Bay of Plenty
• Zarn Sullivan - Auckland
• Sam Darry (injured) - Canterbury

[Nepia]

@Stargazer said in 2019 under 20's:

And why isn't Folau Fakatava on any of the lists? Again! I could understand it if Tonga was competing at the JWC, but that's not the case.

I assume he isn't eligible yet so they're not selecting him? Or does it not matter at U20s level?

[antipodean]

@Nepia I thought it didn't matter because they're not locked in?

[Nepia]

@antipodean said in 2019 under 20's:

@Nepia I thought it didn't matter because they're not locked in?

If that's the case then it's bonkers he didn't appear anywhere on that page.

[Stargazer]

@antipodean It's not eligibility in terms of being locked in by another country; it's about eligibility under the residency rules and at which point in time the residency period starts to run.

@Nepia I suspect that he's indeed not eligible.
I remember looking up in the WR regulations when the residency requirement starts to run, and I couldn't find anything. Someone on the Fern said it starts from the moment he finished school, if he has not moved here with his family but came here by himself.

If that's correct, the question is, has he moved to NZ with his family or by himself (to go to school here)? If he came with his family, how long ago was that? I don't know the answers to these questions.

Edit: just found this in a article in the HBT from 2017:

"I'm really excited to sign with the Magpies. It means I will be able to help support my family because they all work so hard," he said, referring to his father and two sisters in Tonga and mother and two brothers in Australia.

[antipodean]

@Stargazer My understanding is regulation 8 doesn't apply if the U20s team isn't the next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team. Has this changed?

[Stargazer]

@antipodean said in 2019 under 20's:

@Stargazer My understanding is regulation 8 doesn't apply if the U20s team isn't the next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team. Has this changed?

That part of Regulation 8 is about players being locked in by playing for a particular country. That has nothing to do with the eligibility of players who were born in another country (residency requirement, now 5 years, but still 3 years when Fakatava moved to NZ). Fakatava was born in Tonga. See also the edit of my previous post. Both his parents are not living in NZ, so if what has been posted on the Fern before is correct, his residency period started to run from the moment he left school (end of 2017).

The rule relating to being locked in by an U20s team has indeed changed. You cannot be locked in by playing for an U20 team. full stop. That's because an U20 team can no longer be the designated "next senior fifteen-a-side national representative team".

[antipodean]

@Stargazer said in 2019 under 20's:

@antipodean said in 2019 under 20's:

@Stargazer My understanding is regulation 8 doesn't apply if the U20s team isn't the next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team. Has this changed?

Regulation 8 is about players being locked in by playing for a particular country. That has nothing to do with the eligibility of players who were born in another country (residency requirement, now 5 years, but presumably still 3 years when Fakatava moved to NZ). Fakatava was born in Tonga. See also the edit of my previous post. Both his parents are not living in NZ, so if what has been posted on the Fern before is correct, his residency period started to run from the moment he left school (end of 2017).

The rule relating to being locked in by an U20s team has indeed changed. You cannot be locked in by playing for an U20 team. full stop. That's because an U20 team can no longer be the designated "next senior fifteen-a-side national representative team".

So where is it written about a residency requirement to play U20s?

This is Regulation 8 available on World Rugby website: https://www.worldrugby.org/wr-resources/WorldRugbyDIR/Handbook/English/pubData/source/files/Regulation8.pdf

8.3 For the purposes of this Regulation, a Player is deemed to have played for the senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team or the next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team of a Union if:

(d) He is selected to represent the Under 20s National Representative Team of a Union which has been pre-designated as that Union’s next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team and the Player is part of the team which participates in an International Match as part of the World Rugby Junior World Championships, World Rugby Junior World Rugby Trophy or the Six Nations U20
Championship and is present at the Match played by that Team either as a replacement, substitute or playing member of that Team and has, at the time of the Match, reached the age of majority.

[Stargazer]

@antipodean That link goes to an old file dated 1 July 2016.

Here's the more recent document: https://www.world.rugby/handbook/regulations/reg-8/reg-8

8.3    For the purposes of this Regulation, a Player is deemed to have played for the senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team or the next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team of a Union if:

(a)    He is selected for such team to play in an International Match against the senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team or the next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team of another Union (or in a fifteen-a-side international Match against another Union’s senior or next senior Touring Squad during a World Rugby approved International Tour) and is present at the Match played by that team either as a replacement, substitute or a playing member of that team and has, at the time of the Match, reached the age of majority; or

(b)    He is selected to represent a Union’s senior Touring Squad on an International Tour which includes an International Match or Matches approved by World Rugby and is present at any fifteen-a-side Match played on that International Tour either as a replacement, substitute or a playing member of a team selected from the Union’s senior Touring Squad and has, at the time of the Match, reached the age of majority; or

(c)    He is selected to represent a Union’s next senior Touring Squad on a World Rugby approved International Tour and during that International Tour he is present at a Match against the senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team or the next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team of another Union either as a replacement, substitute or playing member of a team selected from the Union’s next senior Touring Squad and has, at the time of the Match reached the age of majority.

(d)    Before January 1, 2018, he is selected to represent the Under 20s National Representative Team of a Union which has been pre-designated as that Union’s next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team and the Player is part of the team which participates in an International Match as part of the World Rugby Junior World Championships, World Rugby Junior World Rugby Trophy or the Six Nations U20 Championship and is present at the Match played by that Team either as a replacement, substitute or playing member of that Team and has, at the time of the Match, reached the age of majority³.

Footnote:

(3) With effect from January 1, 2018, Unions will no longer be permitted to name its Under 20s National Representative Team as that Union’s next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team.

[chchfanatic]

Connor garden bachop gone back home to Wellington. Obviously got the chop from crusaders as well

[Stargazer]

@chchfanatic Yes, he played for Hurricanes U20 last weekend.

[chchfanatic]

@Stargazer another one gone from the Lincoln squad. If all the Lincoln boys make the World Cup the dynasty could be over. They’ve lost quite a few from last years team and not many good colts from last year

[antipodean]

@Stargazer said in 2019 under 20's:

@antipodean That link goes to an old file dated 1 July 2016.

Here's the more recent document: https://www.world.rugby/handbook/regulations/reg-8/reg-8

Footnote:

(3) With effect from January 1, 2018, Unions will no longer be permitted to name its Under 20s National Representative Team as that Union’s next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team.

Cheers. I recall hearing something about that. Shows how incompetent World Rugby are to keep outdated information available on their website.

My point still stands on residential requirements.

[Stargazer]

@antipodean said in 2019 under 20's:

@Stargazer said in 2019 under 20's:

@antipodean That link goes to an old file dated 1 July 2016.

My point still stands on residential requirements.

Yes. I hope that the Ferner who posted that the residency requirement only starts to run from the moment a player leaves school if he hasn't moved to the new country (as a minor) with his family, can refer us to an actual regulation or WR / NZR document. I've never been able to find it.

[Canes4life]

@chchfanatic superb, he looks like a great prospect. Welcome home son.

[Canes4life]

@Stargazer at Fullback or Wing? I remember him being lightning quick and he had a good skillset when he played for Scots. Looks to be fairly solid now aswell, even looks bigger than his big bro.

[Stargazer]

@Canes4life At fullback.

[98blueandgold]

So looking at this squad strongest 15 to look maybe like this.

15 Etene Nanai Seturo/ Kaleb Trask
14 Leicester Faingaanuku
13 Quinn Tupaea
12 Dallas McLeod
11 Caleb Clarke
10 Lincoln McClutchie
9 Taufa Funaki
8 Devan Flanders
7 Sam Dickson
6 Cullen Grace
5 Sam Darry
4 Tupou Vaa'i
3 Rob Cobb
2 Kianu Kereru Symes
1 Kaliopasi Uluilakepa

Strength maybe F/R (don't laugh) but a lot of experience in the squad, I think we will hold our own at scrum time which is all we need.
Mid-field and outside backs, a lot of experience and firepower.

Issues - Inside backs. Yes they are good players but this is a different level and not sure if they can dominate it.
-Locks/Jumpers. I think lineouts could be a problem. Not a much depth, coaches are going to need to be smart here.

[Stargazer]

@98blueandgold Or Danny Toala at 12 or 15.

[Canes4life]

@98blueandgold Kaylum Boshier?? Billy Proctor at centre??