Blues vs Waratahs
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@Tim said in Blues vs Waratahs:
Think that game showed the importance of Gibson's leadership. We really seemed to go off the boil when he went off the field.
Replaced your 10 about the same time for an HIA, yes? Bit of disruption there, plus you didn't have the ball for a lot of minutes 20-40.
@NTA said in Blues vs Waratahs:
@Tim said in Blues vs Waratahs:
Think that game showed the importance of Gibson's leadership. We really seemed to go off the boil when he went off the field.
Replaced your 10 about the same time for an HIA, yes? Bit of disruption there, plus you didn't have the ball for a lot of minutes 20-40.
Think the balance of our loosies suffered with DP and TR as no genuine 7.
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Well, hell yeah. We won, and we ground it out. Really stoked with this; this was winning ugly. Bunch of top of head thoughts below
Blake Gibson very influential; when we went off, it all fell apart. At 17-0 after 17, we were on track for a cricket score.
I really don't see the negativity for Otere on here either - he's a decent kicker, has god length on his punts, and has kept the team structure. Not setting the world on fire, but not disasterous at all either.
Ma'a I spoke about above. Great at this level, but he's showing age. Wonderful to have him though
Both Ioane's seemed subdued tonight. Maybe the minutes catching up?
Ruru can't box kick to save his life. it was terrible. Our exits were abysmal all night, and we have to work on it.
Set piece marginally OK. Better than last week.
Forwards generally - take a bow fellas I reckon you stepped up and won that for us, particularly at the end. That three minutes seemed way to long to try and run the clock, but by god you got there. Well bloody done. I wouldn't have been that brave - would have put it down in the corner and taken our chances.
Ref was a mixed bag of good adn 'interesting'. Some of the people picking up balls where counter rucks have happened ... or 'in from the side ignored'. Well, most weeks that shit happens.
We're building nicely. Patches of good play starting to extend, and linking a few wins together. Last week was special against a very good pack, this week was bloody gritty resilient stubbornness. Haven't seen that out on Eden Park for the Blues for as long as I can remember.
@nzzp said in Blues vs Waratahs:
Well, hell yeah. We won, and we ground it out. Really stoked with this; this was winning ugly. Bunch of top of head thoughts below
Blake Gibson very influential; when we went off, it all fell apart. At 17-0 after 17, we were on track for a cricket score.
I really don't see the negativity for Otere on here either - he's a decent kicker, has god length on his punts, and has kept the team structure. Not setting the world on fire, but not disasterous at all either.
Ma'a I spoke about above. Great at this level, but he's showing age. Wonderful to have him though
Both Ioane's seemed subdued tonight. Maybe the minutes catching up?
Ruru can't box kick to save his life. it was terrible. Our exits were abysmal all night, and we have to work on it.
Set piece marginally OK. Better than last week.
Forwards generally - take a bow fellas I reckon you stepped up and won that for us, particularly at the end. That three minutes seemed way to long to try and run the clock, but by god you got there. Well bloody done. I wouldn't have been that brave - would have put it down in the corner and taken our chances.
Ref was a mixed bag of good adn 'interesting'. Some of the people picking up balls where counter rucks have happened ... or 'in from the side ignored'. Well, most weeks that shit happens.
We're building nicely. Patches of good play starting to extend, and linking a few wins together. Last week was special against a very good pack, this week was bloody gritty resilient stubbornness. Haven't seen that out on Eden Park for the Blues for as long as I can remember.
If we don't sort our lineout we are really going to struggle against top teams. Is Scrafton our best lineout 5?
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@Machpants said in Blues vs Waratahs:
His pass is still the best though, just so useful/dangerous
In the warmups he was throwing bullets 20 m left and right. Just amazing skills, loved it
Edit: I'm a massive fan, but wouldn't have him in the AB squad. Reckon he'd get torn apart at the top level.
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@sparky said in Blues vs Waratahs:
Their young players must be learning so much from playing with perhaps the greatest ever 12 to play the game.
Tim Horan retired years ago
@NTA said in Blues vs Waratahs:
@sparky said in Blues vs Waratahs:
Their young players must be learning so much from playing with perhaps the greatest ever 12 to play the game.
Tim Horan retired years ago
Two best of professional era.
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@No-Quarter said in Blues vs Waratahs:
@NTA said in Blues vs Waratahs:
@sparky said in Blues vs Waratahs:
Their young players must be learning so much from playing with perhaps the greatest ever 12 to play the game.
Tim Horan retired years ago
It's a shame we never got to watch Nonu trample all over Horan.
Or trip over himself as Horan skinned him inside and then outside.
@NTA said in Blues vs Waratahs:
@No-Quarter said in Blues vs Waratahs:
@NTA said in Blues vs Waratahs:
@sparky said in Blues vs Waratahs:
Their young players must be learning so much from playing with perhaps the greatest ever 12 to play the game.
Tim Horan retired years ago
It's a shame we never got to watch Nonu trample all over Horan.
Or trip over himself as Horan skinned him inside and then outside.
Was in same lift as Timmy before 3rd Lions test. Quite a small fella now. Loved it when after his almost terminal knee injury Oz played him everywhere but 12 for a long time. Just superb in RWC semi against Boks.
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@sparky said in Blues vs Waratahs:
Which is partly my point. Tim Horan was probably the most consistent Back in World Rugby in the 1990s, but he was done with international Rugby and Super Rugby by the age 30. He played a couple of seasons after that for Saracens when they were a mid -able side.
The longevity of Ma'a Nonu career as well as his haul of international silverware set him from all other midfielders in the modern game.
Nonu has had the benefit of modern training his entire career, so it is a difficult comparison to make if you're talking longevity. The amateur era didn't have nearly the level of conditioning and support players get now. It can't be denied that he's been part of - and contributed significantly to - one of the most dominant sides ever.
I'd point out Horan debuted in 1989 (age 19), won 2 RWCs 8 years apart, and suffered a pretty shocking knee injury in 94 which put a big hold on his career. Though he still won a RWC after that point, he was probably never the same as his sprightly youth. I will always remember that semifinal game against the Boks in 99 where he played a MOTM performance from his sickbed.
It is interesting to compare their Test careers because there are a lot of similarities there - barring Nonu being 15kg heavier at about the same height:
Horan - debuted 19, played 80 Tests (140 points), 2 x RWC (1991; Player of the tournament 1999), last test 2000 (12 seasons). Played about half his career in amateur rules.
Nonu - debuted 21, played 104* Tests (160 points), 2 x RWC (2011; 2015), last test to date 2015 (13 seasons).I'd take either of them, in their pomp, at 12 over SBW.
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@Nepia said in Blues vs Waratahs:
@SammyC said in Blues vs Waratahs:
Best game I’ve seen Akira play I reckon.. he’s becoming the big bully that the all blacks could use in their loose trio.
Hope the blues waste the chiefs next weekend.
Hmmm. He was better in his last game - TBF that was probably one of his quieter matches (while still being influential).
@Machpants said in Blues vs Waratahs:
@SammyC then right at the end he had to slap some body for no reason after they'd got the penalty and big up to the crowd. He's like itoje. Not sure what the and coaches will think of that cos they notice
They put up with Franks' thuggishness so not sure that would hinder Akira.
He’s a good Christian is Owen
@ACT-Crusader said in Blues vs Waratahs:
@Nepia said in Blues vs Waratahs:
@SammyC said in Blues vs Waratahs:
Best game I’ve seen Akira play I reckon.. he’s becoming the big bully that the all blacks could use in their loose trio.
Hope the blues waste the chiefs next weekend.
Hmmm. He was better in his last game - TBF that was probably one of his quieter matches (while still being influential).
@Machpants said in Blues vs Waratahs:
@SammyC then right at the end he had to slap some body for no reason after they'd got the penalty and big up to the crowd. He's like itoje. Not sure what the and coaches will think of that cos they notice
They put up with Franks' thuggishness so not sure that would hinder Akira.
He’s a good Christian is Owen
As is St. Owen of Farrell.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Blues vs Waratahs:
@Nepia said in Blues vs Waratahs:
@SammyC said in Blues vs Waratahs:
Best game I’ve seen Akira play I reckon.. he’s becoming the big bully that the all blacks could use in their loose trio.
Hope the blues waste the chiefs next weekend.
Hmmm. He was better in his last game - TBF that was probably one of his quieter matches (while still being influential).
@Machpants said in Blues vs Waratahs:
@SammyC then right at the end he had to slap some body for no reason after they'd got the penalty and big up to the crowd. He's like itoje. Not sure what the and coaches will think of that cos they notice
They put up with Franks' thuggishness so not sure that would hinder Akira.
He’s a good Christian is Owen
As is St. Owen of Farrell.
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Geez pretty harsh people knocking Nonu's pace for the try. Those were no slouches chasing him and they didn't even get within diving distance, they certainly didn't look to be gaining on him very quick if at all.
@Bones said in Blues vs Waratahs:
Geez pretty harsh people knocking Nonu's pace for the try. Those were no slouches chasing him and they didn't even get within diving distance, they certainly didn't look to be gaining on him very quick if at all.
Didn't have much of a head start, tho he was at full pace while the others had to turn.
Though I'll qualify all that by reminding you that he's still probably faster than most Aussie backs (because we have zero gas men).
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@Bones said in Blues vs Waratahs:
Geez pretty harsh people knocking Nonu's pace for the try. Those were no slouches chasing him and they didn't even get within diving distance, they certainly didn't look to be gaining on him very quick if at all.
Didn't have much of a head start, tho he was at full pace while the others had to turn.
Though I'll qualify all that by reminding you that he's still probably faster than most Aussie backs (because we have zero gas men).
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@Bones said in Blues vs Waratahs:
@NTA Foley doesn't lack for pace, who was the 23?
Lalakai Foketi.
Foley was well behind Nonu to start with.
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@NTA yeah but he's quick over a short distance and didn't appear to be making any considerable gains.
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Geez pretty harsh people knocking Nonu's pace for the try. Those were no slouches chasing him and they didn't even get within diving distance, they certainly didn't look to be gaining on him very quick if at all.
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@Bones At 12 pace much less of an issue than at 13, although Maori Jesus showed true pace at 12 (which is rare) can be big weapon.
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Geez pretty harsh people knocking Nonu's pace for the try. Those were no slouches chasing him and they didn't even get within diving distance, they certainly didn't look to be gaining on him very quick if at all.
@Bones said in Blues vs Waratahs:
Geez pretty harsh people knocking Nonu's pace for the try. Those were no slouches chasing him and they didn't even get within diving distance, they certainly didn't look to be gaining on him very quick if at all.
It's not just that - he's been noticeably slow this year. He apparently said himself that he ran out of gas with 10 to go and dived.
You see it when he makes one of those scything angled runs; early 30's Ma'a keeps going; Current Ma'a gets tackled by Super level players. At the top level that gap will be even worse.
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@Bones Yeah found it strange too. Don't get me wrong he has slowed down a bit but yeah, people are trying to find reasons to suggest why he shouldn't be considered for the next level if they're targeting his pace during that try.
@African-Monkey said in Blues vs Waratahs:
@Bones Yeah found it strange too. Don't get me wrong he has slowed down a bit but yeah, people are trying to find reasons to suggest why he shouldn't be considered for the next level if they're targeting his pace during that try.
Have a look at some of the earlier games against Kiwi sides. At least twice (once at 12, another at 13) he got ran around by Ennor and a flanker, and was left grasping at air.
He's playing great, but pace still matters at the next level up. If he can play like that against the Kiwi sides, and not get exposed again, then maybe he could still do it. It would be a great story, but I worry about selecting too many centres will potential injury concerns. Crotty, SBW and Nonu? Personally, I would only select Crotty from those three, and he's almost certain to get injured.
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I would say the ABs have access to his 10m/40m stats from 2015 and 2019 (and those he would be competing with) to know how much he has lost and as such, know if he is a viable option in the mid-field still at the top level.
