Blues vs Waratahs
-
@No-Quarter said in Blues vs Waratahs:
@NTA said in Blues vs Waratahs:
@sparky said in Blues vs Waratahs:
Their young players must be learning so much from playing with perhaps the greatest ever 12 to play the game.
Tim Horan retired years ago
It's a shame we never got to watch Nonu trample all over Horan.
Or trip over himself as Horan skinned him inside and then outside.
@NTA said in Blues vs Waratahs:
@No-Quarter said in Blues vs Waratahs:
@NTA said in Blues vs Waratahs:
@sparky said in Blues vs Waratahs:
Their young players must be learning so much from playing with perhaps the greatest ever 12 to play the game.
Tim Horan retired years ago
It's a shame we never got to watch Nonu trample all over Horan.
Or trip over himself as Horan skinned him inside and then outside.
Was in same lift as Timmy before 3rd Lions test. Quite a small fella now. Loved it when after his almost terminal knee injury Oz played him everywhere but 12 for a long time. Just superb in RWC semi against Boks.
-
@sparky said in Blues vs Waratahs:
Which is partly my point. Tim Horan was probably the most consistent Back in World Rugby in the 1990s, but he was done with international Rugby and Super Rugby by the age 30. He played a couple of seasons after that for Saracens when they were a mid -able side.
The longevity of Ma'a Nonu career as well as his haul of international silverware set him from all other midfielders in the modern game.
Nonu has had the benefit of modern training his entire career, so it is a difficult comparison to make if you're talking longevity. The amateur era didn't have nearly the level of conditioning and support players get now. It can't be denied that he's been part of - and contributed significantly to - one of the most dominant sides ever.
I'd point out Horan debuted in 1989 (age 19), won 2 RWCs 8 years apart, and suffered a pretty shocking knee injury in 94 which put a big hold on his career. Though he still won a RWC after that point, he was probably never the same as his sprightly youth. I will always remember that semifinal game against the Boks in 99 where he played a MOTM performance from his sickbed.
It is interesting to compare their Test careers because there are a lot of similarities there - barring Nonu being 15kg heavier at about the same height:
Horan - debuted 19, played 80 Tests (140 points), 2 x RWC (1991; Player of the tournament 1999), last test 2000 (12 seasons). Played about half his career in amateur rules.
Nonu - debuted 21, played 104* Tests (160 points), 2 x RWC (2011; 2015), last test to date 2015 (13 seasons).I'd take either of them, in their pomp, at 12 over SBW.
-
@Nepia said in Blues vs Waratahs:
@SammyC said in Blues vs Waratahs:
Best game I’ve seen Akira play I reckon.. he’s becoming the big bully that the all blacks could use in their loose trio.
Hope the blues waste the chiefs next weekend.
Hmmm. He was better in his last game - TBF that was probably one of his quieter matches (while still being influential).
@Machpants said in Blues vs Waratahs:
@SammyC then right at the end he had to slap some body for no reason after they'd got the penalty and big up to the crowd. He's like itoje. Not sure what the and coaches will think of that cos they notice
They put up with Franks' thuggishness so not sure that would hinder Akira.
He’s a good Christian is Owen
@ACT-Crusader said in Blues vs Waratahs:
@Nepia said in Blues vs Waratahs:
@SammyC said in Blues vs Waratahs:
Best game I’ve seen Akira play I reckon.. he’s becoming the big bully that the all blacks could use in their loose trio.
Hope the blues waste the chiefs next weekend.
Hmmm. He was better in his last game - TBF that was probably one of his quieter matches (while still being influential).
@Machpants said in Blues vs Waratahs:
@SammyC then right at the end he had to slap some body for no reason after they'd got the penalty and big up to the crowd. He's like itoje. Not sure what the and coaches will think of that cos they notice
They put up with Franks' thuggishness so not sure that would hinder Akira.
He’s a good Christian is Owen
As is St. Owen of Farrell.
-
@ACT-Crusader said in Blues vs Waratahs:
@Nepia said in Blues vs Waratahs:
@SammyC said in Blues vs Waratahs:
Best game I’ve seen Akira play I reckon.. he’s becoming the big bully that the all blacks could use in their loose trio.
Hope the blues waste the chiefs next weekend.
Hmmm. He was better in his last game - TBF that was probably one of his quieter matches (while still being influential).
@Machpants said in Blues vs Waratahs:
@SammyC then right at the end he had to slap some body for no reason after they'd got the penalty and big up to the crowd. He's like itoje. Not sure what the and coaches will think of that cos they notice
They put up with Franks' thuggishness so not sure that would hinder Akira.
He’s a good Christian is Owen
As is St. Owen of Farrell.
-
Geez pretty harsh people knocking Nonu's pace for the try. Those were no slouches chasing him and they didn't even get within diving distance, they certainly didn't look to be gaining on him very quick if at all.
@Bones said in Blues vs Waratahs:
Geez pretty harsh people knocking Nonu's pace for the try. Those were no slouches chasing him and they didn't even get within diving distance, they certainly didn't look to be gaining on him very quick if at all.
Didn't have much of a head start, tho he was at full pace while the others had to turn.
Though I'll qualify all that by reminding you that he's still probably faster than most Aussie backs (because we have zero gas men).
-
@Bones said in Blues vs Waratahs:
Geez pretty harsh people knocking Nonu's pace for the try. Those were no slouches chasing him and they didn't even get within diving distance, they certainly didn't look to be gaining on him very quick if at all.
Didn't have much of a head start, tho he was at full pace while the others had to turn.
Though I'll qualify all that by reminding you that he's still probably faster than most Aussie backs (because we have zero gas men).
-
@Bones said in Blues vs Waratahs:
@NTA Foley doesn't lack for pace, who was the 23?
Lalakai Foketi.
Foley was well behind Nonu to start with.
-
@NTA yeah but he's quick over a short distance and didn't appear to be making any considerable gains.
-
Geez pretty harsh people knocking Nonu's pace for the try. Those were no slouches chasing him and they didn't even get within diving distance, they certainly didn't look to be gaining on him very quick if at all.
-
@Bones At 12 pace much less of an issue than at 13, although Maori Jesus showed true pace at 12 (which is rare) can be big weapon.
-
Geez pretty harsh people knocking Nonu's pace for the try. Those were no slouches chasing him and they didn't even get within diving distance, they certainly didn't look to be gaining on him very quick if at all.
@Bones said in Blues vs Waratahs:
Geez pretty harsh people knocking Nonu's pace for the try. Those were no slouches chasing him and they didn't even get within diving distance, they certainly didn't look to be gaining on him very quick if at all.
It's not just that - he's been noticeably slow this year. He apparently said himself that he ran out of gas with 10 to go and dived.
You see it when he makes one of those scything angled runs; early 30's Ma'a keeps going; Current Ma'a gets tackled by Super level players. At the top level that gap will be even worse.
-
@Bones Yeah found it strange too. Don't get me wrong he has slowed down a bit but yeah, people are trying to find reasons to suggest why he shouldn't be considered for the next level if they're targeting his pace during that try.
@African-Monkey said in Blues vs Waratahs:
@Bones Yeah found it strange too. Don't get me wrong he has slowed down a bit but yeah, people are trying to find reasons to suggest why he shouldn't be considered for the next level if they're targeting his pace during that try.
Have a look at some of the earlier games against Kiwi sides. At least twice (once at 12, another at 13) he got ran around by Ennor and a flanker, and was left grasping at air.
He's playing great, but pace still matters at the next level up. If he can play like that against the Kiwi sides, and not get exposed again, then maybe he could still do it. It would be a great story, but I worry about selecting too many centres will potential injury concerns. Crotty, SBW and Nonu? Personally, I would only select Crotty from those three, and he's almost certain to get injured.
-
I would say the ABs have access to his 10m/40m stats from 2015 and 2019 (and those he would be competing with) to know how much he has lost and as such, know if he is a viable option in the mid-field still at the top level.
-
I would say the ABs have access to his 10m/40m stats from 2015 and 2019 (and those he would be competing with) to know how much he has lost and as such, know if he is a viable option in the mid-field still at the top level.
@taniwharugby said in Blues vs Waratahs:
I would say the ABs have access to his 10m/40m stats from 2015 and 2019 (and those he would be competing with) to know how much he has lost and as such, know if he is a viable option in the mid-field still at the top level.
It would be facinating to see those
-
@taniwharugby said in Blues vs Waratahs:
I would say the ABs have access to his 10m/40m stats from 2015 and 2019 (and those he would be competing with) to know how much he has lost and as such, know if he is a viable option in the mid-field still at the top level.
It would be facinating to see those
@Kirwan rugby isnt big on releasing that kind of info for some reason.
saw this recently...
-
@Kirwan rugby isnt big on releasing that kind of info for some reason.
saw this recently...
@taniwharugby Some of those really don't look world class at all. If an outside back is only expected to be marginally quicker than five seconds over 40m, small wonder it's a revelation when one of them has actual pace.
-
@taniwharugby Some of those really don't look world class at all. If an outside back is only expected to be marginally quicker than five seconds over 40m, small wonder it's a revelation when one of them has actual pace.
@antipodean it ties in with some stuff I found on a UK Rugby site a few months ago...but I think the term 'world class' is not test level players (despite the name inferring it should be)
My work colleagues 16yr old son did the bronco in 4.12 earlier this year (was an officially timed one too) at a rugby testing....one of the 13 yr old boys in my sons team (a loosie) would be 'world class'
Either that, or maybe this is why rugby doesnt report figures and stats as they dont measure up...?
-
@antipodean it ties in with some stuff I found on a UK Rugby site a few months ago...but I think the term 'world class' is not test level players (despite the name inferring it should be)
My work colleagues 16yr old son did the bronco in 4.12 earlier this year (was an officially timed one too) at a rugby testing....one of the 13 yr old boys in my sons team (a loosie) would be 'world class'
Either that, or maybe this is why rugby doesnt report figures and stats as they dont measure up...?
@taniwharugby Having seen some of the Gallagher Premiership, none of that sheet surprises me.
The quality of play is average with moments of brilliance, and aerobic fitness isn't high on the list of obvious traits.
