Aussie Pro Rugby
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@nzzp said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@jegga said in Aussie Rugby in general:
Really short of fucks to give now as the pile on seems to be getting a bit ott ,
Yeah. You wonder how the response would be if he was Muslim. Would they pile in the same way?
I don't agree with Folau, but fark me, losing your job over faith ... that shit is tough.
As I mentioned earlier SBW hangs out with a preacher who says gays are worse than animals and zero comebacks from the NZRU.
What happens between Folau and the ARU is between them . It’s rwc year so I hope they sack him , also Toby Faletau and Vunipola should get the arse for liking his post and Itoje should get axed because his clapping and histrionics irritate me . He’s basically a yeast infection in human form .
All the local shitlebrities knowing they are on safe ground mocking him and joining the pile on to clock up virtue points fucks me off though . Apparently we can all point and laugh at christians for believing different things to the rest of us and no one is going to pull you up on it but mock a member of the LGBTQ community or a race/religion with enough oppression points and theyll take to twitter and instagram with the shrillness of a fishwife shedding the lining of her uterus.
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@jegga said in Aussie Rugby in general:
Really short of fucks to give now as the pile on seems to be getting a bit ott ,
Yeah. You wonder how the response would be if he was Muslim. Would they pile in the same way?
I don't agree with Folau, but fark me, losing your job over faith ... that shit is tough.
@nzzp said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@jegga said in Aussie Rugby in general:
Really short of fucks to give now as the pile on seems to be getting a bit ott ,
Yeah. You wonder how the response would be if he was Muslim. Would they pile in the same way?
I don't agree with Folau, but fark me, losing your job over faith ... that shit is tough.
Soooo... You think they're going to heaven instead?
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@nzzp said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@jegga said in Aussie Rugby in general:
Really short of fucks to give now as the pile on seems to be getting a bit ott ,
Yeah. You wonder how the response would be if he was Muslim. Would they pile in the same way?
I don't agree with Folau, but fark me, losing your job over faith ... that shit is tough.
Soooo... You think they're going to heaven instead?
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@nzzp said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@jegga said in Aussie Rugby in general:
Really short of fucks to give now as the pile on seems to be getting a bit ott ,
Yeah. You wonder how the response would be if he was Muslim. Would they pile in the same way?
I don't agree with Folau, but fark me, losing your job over faith ... that shit is tough.
Soooo... You think they're going to heaven instead?
@Bones said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@nzzp said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@jegga said in Aussie Rugby in general:
Really short of fucks to give now as the pile on seems to be getting a bit ott ,
Yeah. You wonder how the response would be if he was Muslim. Would they pile in the same way?
I don't agree with Folau, but fark me, losing your job over faith ... that shit is tough.
Soooo... You think they're going to heaven instead?
I don't think theyr'e going anywhere. I don't think judging others based on religion is sensible at all.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Nepia said in Aussie Rugby in general:
Religion shouldn't be used as a get out of jail free card when a code of conduct or contract is breached.
Not too sure it's as simple as that if Folau hasn't broken any law with his comments.
What if a code of conduct or contract prevents someone from expressing his or her religious beliefs? Aren't you discriminating on religious grounds or free speech grounds if you then punish the player for expressing his/her beliefs?
Or does the ARU (for example) refuse contracts to players with certain religious or political views?
The code of conduct at my work stops me from expressing my beliefs about certain subjects in a public forum. When I signed my contract and the code of conduct I was aware of it and agreed to it.
I think the religious beliefs don’t matter (freedom of speech is an irrelevant red herring in this case) - it’s whether the contract and code are enforceable.
I think one of the issues mudding the waters is any players agreements that exist in Oz rugby.
@Nepia said in Aussie Rugby in general:
I think the religious beliefs don’t matter (freedom of speech is an irrelevant red herring in this case) - it’s whether the contract and code are enforceable.
Contract law rates pretty low on the legal scale. Can't imagine any contract that banned expression of legitimate religious beliefs - no matter how offensive some might think they are - being enforceable. If it were, you could sack any rugby player who told the world he converted to Islam and accepted that religion's view on gay sex.
The ARU could try for a "Bringing the game into disrepute" contract clause if it exists. Personally, I wonder if it may be better to let him carry on and remove all doubt he's a twat.
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@Nepia said in Aussie Rugby in general:
I think the religious beliefs don’t matter (freedom of speech is an irrelevant red herring in this case) - it’s whether the contract and code are enforceable.
Contract law rates pretty low on the legal scale. Can't imagine any contract that banned expression of legitimate religious beliefs - no matter how offensive some might think they are - being enforceable. If it were, you could sack any rugby player who told the world he converted to Islam and accepted that religion's view on gay sex.
The ARU could try for a "Bringing the game into disrepute" contract clause if it exists. Personally, I wonder if it may be better to let him carry on and remove all doubt he's a twat.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Aussie Rugby in general:
Contract law rates pretty low on the legal scale. Can't imagine any contract that banned expression of legitimate religious beliefs - no matter how offensive some might think they are - being enforceable
You'd have to be an idiot to even draft it.
Ladies and gentlemen: Rugby Australia.
Nah actually they're not even quite that stupid. As you say: disrepute is what they've got to hang their hat on. And jumping early with statements like "terminate" may come back to haunt them.
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@Nepia said in Aussie Rugby in general:
I think the religious beliefs don’t matter (freedom of speech is an irrelevant red herring in this case) - it’s whether the contract and code are enforceable.
Contract law rates pretty low on the legal scale. Can't imagine any contract that banned expression of legitimate religious beliefs - no matter how offensive some might think they are - being enforceable. If it were, you could sack any rugby player who told the world he converted to Islam and accepted that religion's view on gay sex.
The ARU could try for a "Bringing the game into disrepute" contract clause if it exists. Personally, I wonder if it may be better to let him carry on and remove all doubt he's a twat.
The story I heard relates to sponsors removing their dollars unless he’s fired, which they interpret as bringing the game into disrepute. I’m not a lawyer, but I’ve had friends fired for less.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Nepia said in Aussie Rugby in general:
Religion shouldn't be used as a get out of jail free card when a code of conduct or contract is breached.
Not too sure it's as simple as that if Folau hasn't broken any law with his comments.
What if a code of conduct or contract prevents someone from expressing his or her religious beliefs? Aren't you discriminating on religious grounds or free speech grounds if you then punish the player for expressing his/her beliefs?
Or does the ARU (for example) refuse contracts to players with certain religious or political views?
For that he would have to prove that his religion espouses what he posted and that opens a huge can of worms what with translations/versions etc
@Crucial said in Aussie Rugby in general:
For that he would have to prove that his religion espouses what he posted and that opens a huge can of worms what with translations/versions etc
Yep. When an employer starts deciding which beliefs and opinions it's employees are allowed to hold and express, you need a opener for a bloody big can.
Knowing the ARU, they're probably looking for one right now...
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We'll find out nothing, just the result at the end, cos it's all an employment matter. Maybe they can't get rid of him and it'll be a slap on the wrist, and then a kiss and make up
Or maybe it'll just all be friendly
https://twitter.com/roscoebeaux/status/1116729482914729985/photo/1https://mobile.twitter.com/JoeMarler/status/1115974647458217984/photo/1Thanks Jo
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The story I heard relates to sponsors removing their dollars unless he’s fired, which they interpret as bringing the game into disrepute. I’m not a lawyer, but I’ve had friends fired for less.
@gt12 The ARU seems to have got themselves into an awful mess. If they get rid of Folau do they open themselves up for action by Folau on religious freedom grounds?
I think it would be better if the ARU found a way to show Folau how bigoted and silly the public find his views.
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@gt12 The ARU seems to have got themselves into an awful mess. If they get rid of Folau do they open themselves up for action by Folau on religious freedom grounds?
I think it would be better if the ARU found a way to show Folau how bigoted and silly the public find his views.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Nepia said in Aussie Rugby in general:
Religion shouldn't be used as a get out of jail free card when a code of conduct or contract is breached.
Not too sure it's as simple as that if Folau hasn't broken any law with his comments.
What if a code of conduct or contract prevents someone from expressing his or her religious beliefs? Aren't you discriminating on religious grounds or free speech grounds if you then punish the player for expressing his/her beliefs?
Or does the ARU (for example) refuse contracts to players with certain religious or political views?
The code of conduct at my work stops me from expressing my beliefs about certain subjects in a public forum. When I signed my contract and the code of conduct I was aware of it and agreed to it.
I think the religious beliefs don’t matter (freedom of speech is an irrelevant red herring in this case) - it’s whether the contract and code are enforceable.
I think one of the issues mudding the waters is any players agreements that exist in Oz rugby.
@Nepia said in Aussie Rugby in general:
The code of conduct at my work stops me from expressing my beliefs about certain subjects in a public forum.
Off topic, but that can be a dangerous road to go down. Codes of Conduct and threats of sacking were used by the authorities in the UK to cover up large scale organised child sex abuse by asian grooming gangs
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I’m not sure how that’s a reply to my post?
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@Nepia said in Aussie Rugby in general:
The code of conduct at my work stops me from expressing my beliefs about certain subjects in a public forum.
Off topic, but that can be a dangerous road to go down. Codes of Conduct and threats of sacking were used by the authorities in the UK to cover up large scale organised child sex abuse by asian grooming gangs
@Victor-Meldrew said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Nepia said in Aussie Rugby in general:
The code of conduct at my work stops me from expressing my beliefs about certain subjects in a public forum.
Off topic, but that can be a dangerous road to go down. Codes of Conduct and threats of sacking were used by the authorities in the UK to cover up large scale organised child sex abuse by asian grooming gangs
Yep.
And what if I want to joing the Nazi party in my spare time?
Or the catholic church?
Or join a union?
employers preventing employees from freedom of association or freedom of religion is a damn slippery sloe
Edit: and, ironically, 40 years ago those laws would be used to stop people promoting homosexuality. Be very very careful what you wish for
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@gt12 It is.... Do the ARU lose sponsorship money or sack Folau or risk a court case.
Ok, I see.
I don’t know - I just heard that is their argument. I have no opinion about the potential court case.
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@Nepia said in Aussie Rugby in general:
The code of conduct at my work stops me from expressing my beliefs about certain subjects in a public forum.
Off topic, but that can be a dangerous road to go down. Codes of Conduct and threats of sacking were used by the authorities in the UK to cover up large scale organised child sex abuse by asian grooming gangs
@Victor-Meldrew said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Nepia said in Aussie Rugby in general:
The code of conduct at my work stops me from expressing my beliefs about certain subjects in a public forum.
Off topic, but that can be a dangerous road to go down. Codes of Conduct and threats of sacking were used by the authorities in the UK to cover up large scale organised child sex abuse by asian grooming gangs
Really? Source?
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I guess the moral of the story is practice what you preach or stfu and stop preaching. If AR actually gave a shit about inclusion and diversity beyond the usual platitudes they should never have resigned Folau.
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I guess the moral of the story is practice what you preach or stfu and stop preaching. If AR actually gave a shit about inclusion and diversity beyond the usual platitudes they should never have resigned Folau.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Aussie Rugby in general:
I guess the moral of the story is practice what you preach or stfu and stop preaching. If AR actually gave a shit about inclusion and diversity beyond the usual platitudes they should never have resigned Folau.
I'm not sure I agree. Australian Rugby obviously accept that not all their employees will be 100% behind gay rights. They just expect those people not to express those views publicly. Same deal with most jobs. It's not hypocritical because there was clauses in Folau's contract preventing him from doing what he did.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Aussie Rugby in general:
I guess the moral of the story is practice what you preach or stfu and stop preaching. If AR actually gave a shit about inclusion and diversity beyond the usual platitudes they should never have resigned Folau.
I'm not sure I agree. Australian Rugby obviously accept that not all their employees will be 100% behind gay rights. They just expect those people not to express those views publicly. Same deal with most jobs. It's not hypocritical because there was clauses in Folau's contract preventing him from doing what he did.
@hydro11 said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Aussie Rugby in general:
I guess the moral of the story is practice what you preach or stfu and stop preaching. If AR actually gave a shit about inclusion and diversity beyond the usual platitudes they should never have resigned Folau.
I'm not sure I agree. Australian Rugby obviously accept that not all their employees will be 100% behind gay rights. They just expect those people not to express those views publicly. Same deal with most jobs. It's not hypocritical because there was clauses in Folau's contract preventing him from doing what he did.
C'mon. If you're fair dinkum about that sort of thing you don't resign a guy who said gay people will go to hell and refused to back down from that. And you certainly don't make him the face of your organisation. Massive hypocrisy.
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@Machpants said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Bones yeah faith is not greater than hate speech
What was it that he said that was hate speech?
**Note: I haven't seen what was posted by Izzy, only that people are hating on him.
