Aussie Pro Rugby
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@Nepia said in Aussie Rugby in general:
The code of conduct at my work stops me from expressing my beliefs about certain subjects in a public forum.
Off topic, but that can be a dangerous road to go down. Codes of Conduct and threats of sacking were used by the authorities in the UK to cover up large scale organised child sex abuse by asian grooming gangs
@Victor-Meldrew said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Nepia said in Aussie Rugby in general:
The code of conduct at my work stops me from expressing my beliefs about certain subjects in a public forum.
Off topic, but that can be a dangerous road to go down. Codes of Conduct and threats of sacking were used by the authorities in the UK to cover up large scale organised child sex abuse by asian grooming gangs
Really? Source?
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I guess the moral of the story is practice what you preach or stfu and stop preaching. If AR actually gave a shit about inclusion and diversity beyond the usual platitudes they should never have resigned Folau.
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I guess the moral of the story is practice what you preach or stfu and stop preaching. If AR actually gave a shit about inclusion and diversity beyond the usual platitudes they should never have resigned Folau.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Aussie Rugby in general:
I guess the moral of the story is practice what you preach or stfu and stop preaching. If AR actually gave a shit about inclusion and diversity beyond the usual platitudes they should never have resigned Folau.
I'm not sure I agree. Australian Rugby obviously accept that not all their employees will be 100% behind gay rights. They just expect those people not to express those views publicly. Same deal with most jobs. It's not hypocritical because there was clauses in Folau's contract preventing him from doing what he did.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Aussie Rugby in general:
I guess the moral of the story is practice what you preach or stfu and stop preaching. If AR actually gave a shit about inclusion and diversity beyond the usual platitudes they should never have resigned Folau.
I'm not sure I agree. Australian Rugby obviously accept that not all their employees will be 100% behind gay rights. They just expect those people not to express those views publicly. Same deal with most jobs. It's not hypocritical because there was clauses in Folau's contract preventing him from doing what he did.
@hydro11 said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Aussie Rugby in general:
I guess the moral of the story is practice what you preach or stfu and stop preaching. If AR actually gave a shit about inclusion and diversity beyond the usual platitudes they should never have resigned Folau.
I'm not sure I agree. Australian Rugby obviously accept that not all their employees will be 100% behind gay rights. They just expect those people not to express those views publicly. Same deal with most jobs. It's not hypocritical because there was clauses in Folau's contract preventing him from doing what he did.
C'mon. If you're fair dinkum about that sort of thing you don't resign a guy who said gay people will go to hell and refused to back down from that. And you certainly don't make him the face of your organisation. Massive hypocrisy.
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@Machpants said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Bones yeah faith is not greater than hate speech
What was it that he said that was hate speech?
**Note: I haven't seen what was posted by Izzy, only that people are hating on him.
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@hydro11 said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Aussie Rugby in general:
I guess the moral of the story is practice what you preach or stfu and stop preaching. If AR actually gave a shit about inclusion and diversity beyond the usual platitudes they should never have resigned Folau.
I'm not sure I agree. Australian Rugby obviously accept that not all their employees will be 100% behind gay rights. They just expect those people not to express those views publicly. Same deal with most jobs. It's not hypocritical because there was clauses in Folau's contract preventing him from doing what he did.
C'mon. If you're fair dinkum about that sort of thing you don't resign a guy who said gay people will go to hell and refused to back down from that. And you certainly don't make him the face of your organisation. Massive hypocrisy.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@hydro11 said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Aussie Rugby in general:
I guess the moral of the story is practice what you preach or stfu and stop preaching. If AR actually gave a shit about inclusion and diversity beyond the usual platitudes they should never have resigned Folau.
I'm not sure I agree. Australian Rugby obviously accept that not all their employees will be 100% behind gay rights. They just expect those people not to express those views publicly. Same deal with most jobs. It's not hypocritical because there was clauses in Folau's contract preventing him from doing what he did.
C'mon. If you're fair dinkum about that sort of thing you don't resign a guy who said gay people will go to hell and refused to back down from that. And you certainly don't make him the face of your organisation. Massive hypocrisy.
Okay, yeah. Using him in advertising does make it a bit different.
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The story I heard relates to sponsors removing their dollars unless he’s fired, which they interpret as bringing the game into disrepute. I’m not a lawyer, but I’ve had friends fired for less.
@gt12 said in Aussie Rugby in general:
The story I heard relates to sponsors removing their dollars unless he’s fired, which they interpret as bringing the game into disrepute. I’m not a lawyer, but I’ve had friends fired for less.
Hilarious. Qantas, the moral arbitour that they are, threaten to pull money from RA which would negatively impact thousands of people just so they can look good, while at the same time cutting deals with state-owned Qatar Airways. If you don't know why that is the height of hypocrisy, look up how the Qatar government treats gay people.
But I guess gay lives outside of the west don't mean a damn thing to the morally superior morons flooding media and social media with their cries of outrage at Folau's comments. I mean if they did, there would be outrage at Qantas right? Boycotts? Protests? The all important hashtags? Or did I miss all of that?
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Doing the rounds on Facebook
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@Machpants said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Bones yeah faith is not greater than hate speech
What was it that he said that was hate speech?
**Note: I haven't seen what was posted by Izzy, only that people are hating on him.
@mimic said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Machpants said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Bones yeah faith is not greater than hate speech
What was it that he said that was hate speech?
**Note: I haven't seen what was posted by Izzy, only that people are hating on him.
Can I please wade in on this?
I'll declare my agnosticism first up, which includes some time toying with Christianity.
So ...
I don't think it is hate speech.
At no point has Folau said homosexuals should go to hell.
He has said they will.
Important distinction.
Especially given it appears his belief is that homosexuality is a sin. And that it is something you have control over.
Again, let me qualify that this is not my belief. But I understand how it could be the belief of a committed Christian.
Let's face it, plenty of people have opinions and beliefs that fly in the face of widely accepted and often scientifically proven fact. Climate science, vaccination, flat earth, gender to name but a few.
Secondly, as a Christian, if he's doing it right, he's praying peeps don't head off to the hot place. If you're a true Christian you don't wish that on anyone. (I find it awfully hypocritical when supposedly Christian people wish someone would rot in hell. Aren't we all meant to be able to be redeemed? John 3:16 (look it up) and all that? I recall the sign in the Sydney church getting some publicity that "God loves Osama bin Laden".)
But I digress...
It is conceivable that he is reaching out to these people he believes are sinning and that, as "Only Jesus saves", he's doing his best to save their mortal souls.
Frankly I don't think he's very bright. I don't agree with him. But I don't think he deserves the level of derision he's getting.
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@mimic said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Machpants said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Bones yeah faith is not greater than hate speech
What was it that he said that was hate speech?
**Note: I haven't seen what was posted by Izzy, only that people are hating on him.
Can I please wade in on this?
I'll declare my agnosticism first up, which includes some time toying with Christianity.
So ...
I don't think it is hate speech.
At no point has Folau said homosexuals should go to hell.
He has said they will.
Important distinction.
Especially given it appears his belief is that homosexuality is a sin. And that it is something you have control over.
Again, let me qualify that this is not my belief. But I understand how it could be the belief of a committed Christian.
Let's face it, plenty of people have opinions and beliefs that fly in the face of widely accepted and often scientifically proven fact. Climate science, vaccination, flat earth, gender to name but a few.
Secondly, as a Christian, if he's doing it right, he's praying peeps don't head off to the hot place. If you're a true Christian you don't wish that on anyone. (I find it awfully hypocritical when supposedly Christian people wish someone would rot in hell. Aren't we all meant to be able to be redeemed? John 3:16 (look it up) and all that? I recall the sign in the Sydney church getting some publicity that "God loves Osama bin Laden".)
But I digress...
It is conceivable that he is reaching out to these people he believes are sinning and that, as "Only Jesus saves", he's doing his best to save their mortal souls.
Frankly I don't think he's very bright. I don't agree with him. But I don't think he deserves the level of derision he's getting.
@booboo Nope sorry - hate speech. Vilifying someone for what they are (black, blond, left handed, gay, short) rather than what they chose to do (lie, steal, drink). Second bit is being a twat, first bit is hate speech. He has said in his sermons and tweets etc, people need to follow the bible. He thinks it's RIGHT and GOOD that gay people are condemned unless they repent their sins. Fuck off Folau, they can't repent how they were born anymore than you can repent your skin colour, or I can repent my webbed toes. Hate speech 100%
Also against the RA Inclusion policy he signed up to - hate speech and sticking his finger up at his employer, and sponsors (and thus who pays for his inflated wage)
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@gt12 said in Aussie Rugby in general:
The story I heard relates to sponsors removing their dollars unless he’s fired, which they interpret as bringing the game into disrepute. I’m not a lawyer, but I’ve had friends fired for less.
Hilarious. Qantas, the moral arbitour that they are, threaten to pull money from RA which would negatively impact thousands of people just so they can look good, while at the same time cutting deals with state-owned Qatar Airways. If you don't know why that is the height of hypocrisy, look up how the Qatar government treats gay people.
But I guess gay lives outside of the west don't mean a damn thing to the morally superior morons flooding media and social media with their cries of outrage at Folau's comments. I mean if they did, there would be outrage at Qantas right? Boycotts? Protests? The all important hashtags? Or did I miss all of that?
@No-Quarter said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@gt12 said in Aussie Rugby in general:
The story I heard relates to sponsors removing their dollars unless he’s fired, which they interpret as bringing the game into disrepute. I’m not a lawyer, but I’ve had friends fired for less.
Hilarious. Qantas, the moral arbitour that they are, threaten to pull money from RA which would negatively impact thousands of people just so they can look good, while at the same time cutting deals with state-owned Qatar Airways. If you don't know why that is the height of hypocrisy, look up how the Qatar government treats gay people.
But I guess gay lives outside of the west don't mean a damn thing to the morally superior morons flooding media and social media with their cries of outrage at Folau's comments. I mean if they did, there would be outrage at Qantas rights? Boycotts? Protests? The all important hashtags? Or did I miss all of that?
They're also partners with Royal Brunei, airline of a country where they just ramped up Sharia Law with a particular emphasis on gays. Response from Qantas? Crickets.
Obviously that grave concern about inclusion doesn't mean shit when the bottom line is threatened. What a complete joke.
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@booboo Nope sorry - hate speech. Vilifying someone for what they are (black, blond, left handed, gay, short) rather than what they chose to do (lie, steal, drink). Second bit is being a twat, first bit is hate speech. He has said in his sermons and tweets etc, people need to follow the bible. He thinks it's RIGHT and GOOD that gay people are condemned unless they repent their sins. Fuck off Folau, they can't repent how they were born anymore than you can repent your skin colour, or I can repent my webbed toes. Hate speech 100%
Also against the RA Inclusion policy he signed up to - hate speech and sticking his finger up at his employer, and sponsors (and thus who pays for his inflated wage)
@Machpants making a tilt for the broken record award?
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Nepia said in Aussie Rugby in general:
The code of conduct at my work stops me from expressing my beliefs about certain subjects in a public forum.
Off topic, but that can be a dangerous road to go down. Codes of Conduct and threats of sacking were used by the authorities in the UK to cover up large scale organised child sex abuse by asian grooming gangs
Really? Source?
Really? Source?
Rotherham Council tried to silence Jayne Senior - the whistle-blower in the Rotherham Child Sex scandal - by threatening legal action for breaching confidentiality clauses in her contract. Chapter 17 in her book Broken & Betrayed. They only backed down when Rupert Murdoch threatened widespread coverage of the legal proceedings
And the social worker who exposed a similar scandal and cover-up in Rochdale was sacked.
But a bit off topic...
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@booboo Nope sorry - hate speech. Vilifying someone for what they are (black, blond, left handed, gay, short) rather than what they chose to do (lie, steal, drink). Second bit is being a twat, first bit is hate speech. He has said in his sermons and tweets etc, people need to follow the bible. He thinks it's RIGHT and GOOD that gay people are condemned unless they repent their sins. Fuck off Folau, they can't repent how they were born anymore than you can repent your skin colour, or I can repent my webbed toes. Hate speech 100%
Also against the RA Inclusion policy he signed up to - hate speech and sticking his finger up at his employer, and sponsors (and thus who pays for his inflated wage)
@Machpants said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@booboo Nope sorry - hate speech. Vilifying someone for what they are (black, blond, left handed, gay, short) rather than what they chose to do (lie, steal, drink). Second bit is being a twat, first bit is hate speech. He has said in his sermons and tweets etc, people need to follow the bible. He thinks it's RIGHT and GOOD that gay people are condemned unless they repent their sins. Fuck off Folau, they can't repent how they were born anymore than you can repent your skin colour, or I can repent my webbed toes. Hate speech 100%
Also against the RA Inclusion policy he signed up to - hate speech and sticking his finger up at his employer, and sponsors (and thus who pays for his inflated wage)
Vilifying? He's said they'll go to hell.
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Really? Source?
Rotherham Council tried to silence Jayne Senior - the whistle-blower in the Rotherham Child Sex scandal - by threatening legal action for breaching confidentiality clauses in her contract. Chapter 17 in her book Broken & Betrayed. They only backed down when Rupert Murdoch threatened widespread coverage of the legal proceedings
And the social worker who exposed a similar scandal and cover-up in Rochdale was sacked.
But a bit off topic...
@Victor-Meldrew said in Aussie Rugby in general:
Really? Source?
Rotherham Council tried to silence Jayne Senior - the whistle-blower in the Rotherham Child Sex scandal - by threatening legal action for breaching confidentiality clauses in her contract. Chapter 17 in her book Broken & Betrayed. They only backed down when Rupert Murdoch threatened widespread coverage of the legal proceedings
And the social worker who exposed a similar scandal and cover-up in Rochdale was sacked.
But a bit off topic...
Ok thanks feller. Appreciated.
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@Kirwan Not comfortable with restricting free speech at all, even stupid drivel like this
I am grateful to live in a free society with religious freedoms, press freedoms and very little censorship. But there are obligations on employees to uphold the values of the organisations they work for and abide by their contractual arrangements.
Folau posted from social media accounts that identify him as a Wallaby and an Rugby Australia employee. Their content and tone go against the code of conduct that he signed. No one is taking away his democratic rights to have his own opinions and to practise his religion as long as it doesn't harm anyone else, but as an employee there are consequences to communications that are totally at odds with the values and aims of his employers who remunerate him very well indeed.
@sparky said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Kirwan Not comfortable with restricting free speech at all, even stupid drivel like this
I am grateful to live in a free society with religious freedoms, press freedoms and very little censorship. But there are obligations on employees to uphold the values of the organisations they work for and abide by their contractual arrangements.
Folau posted from social media accounts that identify him as a Wallaby and an Rugby Australia employee. Their content and tone go against the code of conduct that he signed. No one is taking away his democratic rights to have his own opinions and to practise his religion as long as it doesn't harm anyone else, but as an employee there are consequences to communications that are totally at odds with the values and aims of his employers who remunerate him very well indeed.
I'm afraid I don't really buy this employers' values rhetoric. All the rugby fans I know watch drunks, gays and adulterers who play pro rugby without any prejudice or qualms. THAT is what matters. This employers' value drivel is really about sponsors, who are nowadays trying to cultivate a 'right on' image and will twist arms if a sponsoree might queer that pitch. Do sponsors enhance the fans' experience? I must say I have my doubts. They DO encourage there being TOO MUCH rugby, and their money does lead to increased players' remuneration, but at the cost of their long term welfare.
I'm not confident the game will be in good shape in ten years' time the way things are going.
Somehow smacks of meeting religious doctrine with secular doctrine.
YAWN.
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@Machpants said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@booboo Nope sorry - hate speech. Vilifying someone for what they are (black, blond, left handed, gay, short) rather than what they chose to do (lie, steal, drink). Second bit is being a twat, first bit is hate speech. He has said in his sermons and tweets etc, people need to follow the bible. He thinks it's RIGHT and GOOD that gay people are condemned unless they repent their sins. Fuck off Folau, they can't repent how they were born anymore than you can repent your skin colour, or I can repent my webbed toes. Hate speech 100%
Also against the RA Inclusion policy he signed up to - hate speech and sticking his finger up at his employer, and sponsors (and thus who pays for his inflated wage)
Vilifying? He's said they'll go to hell.
@Bones said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Machpants said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@booboo Nope sorry - hate speech. Vilifying someone for what they are (black, blond, left handed, gay, short) rather than what they chose to do (lie, steal, drink). Second bit is being a twat, first bit is hate speech. He has said in his sermons and tweets etc, people need to follow the bible. He thinks it's RIGHT and GOOD that gay people are condemned unless they repent their sins. Fuck off Folau, they can't repent how they were born anymore than you can repent your skin colour, or I can repent my webbed toes. Hate speech 100%
Also against the RA Inclusion policy he signed up to - hate speech and sticking his finger up at his employer, and sponsors (and thus who pays for his inflated wage)
Vilifying? He's said they'll go to hell.
And he’s saying pretty much everyone is going to hell, not just gays. Pretty weak on the hate speech scale IMO.
If you don’t join my club all youse guys are going to a place we made up when you die.
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@booboo Nope sorry - hate speech. Vilifying someone for what they are (black, blond, left handed, gay, short) rather than what they chose to do (lie, steal, drink). Second bit is being a twat, first bit is hate speech. He has said in his sermons and tweets etc, people need to follow the bible. He thinks it's RIGHT and GOOD that gay people are condemned unless they repent their sins. Fuck off Folau, they can't repent how they were born anymore than you can repent your skin colour, or I can repent my webbed toes. Hate speech 100%
Also against the RA Inclusion policy he signed up to - hate speech and sticking his finger up at his employer, and sponsors (and thus who pays for his inflated wage)
@Machpants said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@booboo Nope sorry - hate speech. Vilifying someone for what they are (black, blond, left handed, gay, short) rather than what they chose to do (lie, steal, drink). Second bit is being a twat, first bit is hate speech. He has said in his sermons and tweets etc, people need to follow the bible. He thinks it's RIGHT and GOOD that gay people are condemned unless they repent their sins. Fuck off Folau, they can't repent how they were born anymore than you can repent your skin colour, or I can repent my webbed toes. Hate speech 100%
Also against the RA Inclusion policy he signed up to - hate speech and sticking his finger up at his employer, and sponsors (and thus who pays for his inflated wage)
From google
abusive or threatening speech or writing that expresses prejudice against a particular group, especially on the basis of race, religion, or sexual orientation.Not sure he's abusing, at a push there may be an implied threat, but is it? or is it more a warning? And as pointed out above if he is indeed Christian he may think it is "RIGHT" that homosexuals go to Hell, he sure as Hell (pun intended) shouldn't think it is "GOOD". I think that is your projection and interpretation, which seems to be mirrored by all the usual woke celebrities'.
Based on what he purports to be his beliefs (which I don't share) we'll agree to disagree on that point.
Your second paragraph I agree 100%, with the caveat about the definitiion and intent of "hate speech".
