Aussie Pro Rugby

No Quarter

@Hooroo said in Aussie Rugby in general:

@antipodean said in Aussie Rugby in general:

@Darren said in Aussie Rugby in general:

Have they made a decision yet? Has he actually been fired?

Effectively, yes. When RA, Waratahs and the respective coaches and captain say you won't be picked.

But is he still getting paid? Is he effectively on Gardening Leave?

I was wondering that. Quade was effectively a very expensive club player for a while wasn't he? I assume RA will want to cancel the contract altogether, even if it means a small payout.

Rembrandt

I wonder what his future could be. Would the NRL take him on? I'm guessing probably not. Could this be the end of his sporting career at least in Australia?

Hooroo

@Rembrandt said in Aussie Rugby in general:

I wonder what his future could be. Would the NRL take him on? I'm guessing probably not. Could this be the end of his sporting career at least in Australia?

NRL have subtlety said no, I think I read the other day

taniwharugby

@Hooroo yeah NRL have said no thanks...in theory, but I guess if some club went to them asking for him, write in some rules around his conduct, am sure they'd let him in?

Comic book man from France thinks Folau is a fool, but he is such a tool he'd probably still offer him a contract then cry in shock and surprise when Folau tweeted something else dumb.

barbarian

@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Aussie Rugby in general:

So what are the Wallabies chances without him? My memory is hazy, but did he make much of a difference at the last RWC?

He injured his ankle in one of our pool games, and was well below his best the entire tournament.

But yes, we will miss him a lot.

Rancid Schnitzel

@mariner4life said in Aussie Rugby in general:

@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Aussie Rugby in general:

So what are the Wallabies chances without him? My memory is hazy, but did he make much of a difference at the last RWC?

He's far and away their best attacking player and points outlet. He's been the difference in a number of tests. This is a huge loss.

Yeah I guess they're probably in a shittier position now than they were in 2015.

NTA

I think Folau's role would be on the wing, anyway. We'll just have to make do. Fullback candidates top 5 are:

Hodge
Banks
DHP
Beale
Hegarty

All capable.

Machpants

@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Aussie Rugby in general:

@mariner4life said in Aussie Rugby in general:

@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Aussie Rugby in general:

So what are the Wallabies chances without him? My memory is hazy, but did he make much of a difference at the last RWC?

He's far and away their best attacking player and points outlet. He's been the difference in a number of tests. This is a huge loss.

Yeah I guess they're probably in a shittier position now than they were in 2015.

Yeah, so are we though!

Stargazer

This is from yesterday:

Rugby AU issues Folau with Code of Conduct breach notice

Israel Folau will have to face a code of conduct hearing if he wants to save his Australian rugby career after being issued a breach notice "warranting termination of his employment contract" by Rugby Australia.

Rugby AU CEO Raelene Castle revealed that there was no specific clause within Folau's contract regarding his social media use but the fullback had been party to written agreements that he would refrain from posting in a disrespectful way after a similar incident almost a year ago.

"The standard contract here in Australia for all Rugby Australia players is to sit within a standard contract that's agreed with the Players' Association and negotiated as part of the collective bargaining agreement," she said.

Asked specifically whether a social media clause was included, Castle said there were other agreements in place.

"(There was no clause) within the contract but there was a number of documented meetings that were put in writing, both verbally and in writing, to Israel about our expectations," she said.

"Yes, he agreed to them."

Rugby Australia issued the notice on Monday afternoon and Folau has 48 hours to either accept the breach or request a hearing at a later date. 

Should it go to a hearing, Folau's case would be heard by an independent three-person panel, following a similar process to that of Kurtley Beale in 2014.

Castle said at the time of negotiating Folau's contract, she was confident the 30-year-old understood the standards that needed to be met when it came to social media.

"I think we both entered into an open conversation around the contract negotiations," she said.

"You start with a point of trust and hopes you can move on from there - that was certainly the very pragmatic and straight forward conversation we had in re-signing him.

"We had an agreement of where the line in the sand was.

"Andrew (Hore) sat down and had a meeting with him, I sat down and had a meeting with him, (Wallabies coach Michael) Cheika sat down, had a meeting with him and explained the implications of this type of posting and that the grief that it causes, the disrespect that it causes and harm that it causes for our rugby community.

"I believe that was a commitment we had but that's clearly not Israel's view." 

There has not been a specific charge made public but Castle said the high level breach was a result of a number of issues under the code of conduct.

A number of Wallabies players liked the post on Instagram and many of his Waratahs teammates are also followers of the Christian faith, something Castle and her NSW counterpart Andrew Hore were quick to dismiss religion as the key element in the decision.

"This is not a religious discussion, this is a discussion around the employee, employer relationship and the values in the contractual arrangements within that agreement," she said.

"That's on the basis on which we have served him a breach notice."

Stargazer

So the intention of this notice is to terminate his employment contract. If successful, that means they won't have to pay Folau anymore.

Machpants

But he talked to the Players Union and then gave his intention to fight it. So yeah he may well win the legal battle and keep his job, but like quad he won't be playing for Oz.

Rancid Schnitzel

@Machpants said in Aussie Rugby in general:

@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Aussie Rugby in general:

@mariner4life said in Aussie Rugby in general:

@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Aussie Rugby in general:

So what are the Wallabies chances without him? My memory is hazy, but did he make much of a difference at the last RWC?

He's far and away their best attacking player and points outlet. He's been the difference in a number of tests. This is a huge loss.

Yeah I guess they're probably in a shittier position now than they were in 2015.

Yeah, so are we though!

Yes but this isn't about us it's about them. Don't be so self-centred

Tbh I think Aus are the least of our worries.

antipodean

Aussie Rugby in general:

Asked specifically whether a social media clause was included, Castle said there were other agreements in place.

"(There was no clause) within the contract but there was a number of documented meetings that were put in writing, both verbally and in writing, to Israel about our expectations," she said.

"Yes, he agreed to them."

I'm not sure Raelene understands contracts.

barbarian

@antipodean said in Aussie Rugby in general:

I'm not sure Raelene understands contracts.

I'd imagine there are requirements an employer must fulfill under the Fair Work Act before they can terminate an employee.

So in his numerous briefings, warnings etc. they are covering themselves under the law if they then decide to sack him.

My understanding is there isn't a specific clause in his contract, but he is required to adhere to the RA Inclusion Policy.

taniwharugby

@barbarian yeah I expect if Aus is anything like NZ, the rights of employees are well protected and employers need to do everything by the book, cant just sack someone cos they piss you off anymore.

antipodean

@barbarian said in Aussie Rugby in general:

I'd imagine there are requirements an employer must fulfill under the Fair Work Act before they can terminate an employee.
So in his numerous briefings, warnings etc. they are covering themselves under the law if they then decide to sack him.
My understanding is there isn't a specific clause in his contract, but he is required to adhere to the RA Inclusion Policy.

If you're required to adhere to policies, that's mentioned in your contract. Or it's a variation. One that requires the same consideration.

I'll also point out religion is a protected attribute.

barbarian

@antipodean said in Aussie Rugby in general:

I'll also point out religion is a protected attribute.

But they wouldn't be firing him because he is a Christian. They'd be firing him because he breached their policy and ignored warnings not to do what he did.

The fact that it was his religion that compelled him to act in that way is irrelevant, under my very limited understanding of contract law.

antipodean

@barbarian said in Aussie Rugby in general:

@antipodean said in Aussie Rugby in general:

I'll also point out religion is a protected attribute.

But they wouldn't be firing him because he is a Christian. They'd be firing him because he breached their policy and ignored warnings not to do what he did.

The fact that it was his religion that compelled him to act in that way is irrelevant, under my very limited understanding of contract law.

It's pointless having religion as a protected attribute if you can't exercise it. I'd also say that quoting biblical passages would reasonably come under such a position. I'm also not convinced it discriminates, harasses or bullies.

So we have two competing protected attributes (because RA doesn't give a flying fuck about atheists). I'm more interested in the legal outcome than I am about someone's hurty feelings or Izzy's career.

nzzp

@barbarian said in Aussie Rugby in general:

@antipodean said in Aussie Rugby in general:

I'll also point out religion is a protected attribute.

But they wouldn't be firing him because he is a Christian. They'd be firing him because he breached their policy and ignored warnings not to do what he did.

The fact that it was his religion that compelled him to act in that way is irrelevant, under my very limited understanding of contract law.

We're not firing you because you're gay. We're just firing you because you're hanging out with flamboyantly gay people, and our sponsor's don't like it.

We're not firing you because you're in a union. Just because you ignored our reasonable requests not to protest in your own time. Sorry, our sponsor's are capitalists and don't like it. We don't tolerate communists here.

There are real limitations to what you can do to your employees outside work time. Courts may take a dim view of trying to limit religious (or political) speech, even if it is offensive.

Rembrandt

that he would refrain from posting in a disrespectful way after a similar incident almost a year ago.

If there is no written clause and the gist of the 'agreement' is this then he should be in the clear. It's only peoples interpretation of intention that is causing outrage. His intent could very well be that he loves gays (and everyone else he mentioned) so much that he wants to help them avoid hell, in his mind not warning people would be what is disrespectful.

The Silver Fern

Aussie Pro Rugby