FIFA Officials Arrested
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<p>I'm confused El Toro.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Are you saying that the FIFA corruption is OK because others are also corrupt (and depending on your viewpoint they aren't the worst)?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Are you also saying that paying bribes is OK if it gets good results?</p> -
Better than paying bribes for shit outcomes, like Qatar...
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crucial" data-cid="493101" data-time="1432866860">
<div>
<p>I'm confused El Toro.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Are you saying that the FIFA corruption is OK because others are also corrupt (and depending on your viewpoint they aren't the worst)?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Are you also saying that paying bribes is OK if it gets good results?</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>I am pointing out the naivety and subjectivity of dealing with the term ......corruption. And how certain people like to define it for their benefit.....I am not defending it.</p>
<p>And I do cringe a little when the cop is arresting somebody with his left hand…while the right hand is dripping with blood from his own murderous spree……</p>
<p> </p>
<p>
One man's corruption/ bribe is another man's "business skill"…<br>
In first world countries "sophisticated" means are used to set up agreements for people in corporate and political power to gain enormous wealth from anything like arms deals.....to agricultural produce.....screwing the competition in the process....and even sending thousands to their graves in extreme cases. All done by upstanding citizens..... above board....untouchable in a court of law.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>
It works differently in third world countries......a "doorman" fee of varying percentage is the norm in Africa and lots of other third world countries. It is simple business, comes with the territory and not even frowned upon. Huge multi-nationals doing business in Africa knows this and adapt their systems to accommodate the norm. All the big miners......everyone knows you wonâ€
t get anything done if you don't participate.<br>
The difference between the two systems is that one comes with less red tape…..<br>
Whether it is wrong or right is not my point........</p>
<p> </p>
<p>
And I feel bugger all for FIFA...... they can fry for all I care.......the irony that the whole case was built on simple tax evasion adds to the stupidity of those involved.....fuck the Feds......the IRS will get you if nobody else will!</p>
<p>
But I do laugh at the naivety and moral outrage of people cocooned in a first world bubble of spin and bullshit.....falling over much bigger corruption every day without even noticing it......<br>
How do you stamp it out? Fuck knows......probably canâ€t be done. One way or the other it will surface again.....wearing a new coat.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>
Also.....Can you think of a "fair" system of allocating the soccer WC? Fair to whom?<br>
One where the guy with the biggest budget wonâ€t simply bully the small guys into oblivion?</p> -
<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.theonion.com/article/fifa-frantically-announces-2015-summer-world-cup-u-50525'>http://www.theonion.com/article/fifa-frantically-announces-2015-summer-world-cup-u-50525</a></p>
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<p>why do many announce who they are going to vote for? </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Kinda 'peer pressure' situation about who to vote for??</p> -
<p>adds a bit to the price</p>
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<p>Doesn't matter how it is dressed up - I abhor any practice where self-enrichment trumps making good (or at least well-intentioned) decisions by people in positions of trust and responsibility.</p>
<p>I concur that it would be naive to think it doesn't happen constantly, in a myriad of so-called <em>legitimate</em> ways in pretty much every corner of the globe in most spheres of life.</p>
<p>But that doesn't make it any more right and so I welcome any efforts at exposing these practices and cleaning them up. Even if that results in a "pot / kettle" situation.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="493063" data-time="1432852093">
<div>
<p>Blatter is a politician in a fairly safe seat. He's looking after us well and we're voting for him. At times he's made noises about Oceania having direct entry into the FWC - which makes bugger all sense really - except that it helps deliver quite a few country votes (Tuvalu = China) to Blatter. Same sort of patronage system exists across many international agencies. </p>
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</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Highly familiar to me, as I am on the board for the NZ Chess Federation, and FIDE (world chess federation) is basically the same - one nation, one vote, and a president who gets lots of votes from non-Western countries by providing "grants" to smaller countries... We haven't voted for him for years because we don't view that as helpful.</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/world-game/68982533/new-zealand-football-to-vote-for-prince-ali-bin-alhussein-and-change-of-fifa-leadership'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/world-game/68982533/new-zealand-football-to-vote-for-prince-ali-bin-alhussein-and-change-of-fifa-leadership</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>Apparently NZF are not voting for Blatter.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="El Toro supremo" data-cid="493106" data-time="1432871937">
<div>
<p>I am pointing out the naivety and subjectivity of dealing with the term ......corruption. And how certain people like to define it for their benefit.....I am not defending it.</p>
<p>And I do cringe a little when the cop is arresting somebody with his left hand…while the right hand is dripping with blood from his own murderous spree……</p>
<p> </p>
<p>One man's corruption/ bribe is another man's "business skill"…<br>
In first world countries "sophisticated" means are used to set up agreements for people in corporate and political power to gain enormous wealth from anything like arms deals.....to agricultural produce.....screwing the competition in the process....and even sending thousands to their graves in extreme cases. All done by upstanding citizens..... above board....untouchable in a court of law.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>It works differently in third world countries......a "doorman" fee of varying percentage is the norm in Africa and lots of other third world countries. It is simple business, comes with the territory and not even frowned upon. Huge multi-nationals doing business in Africa knows this and adapt their systems to accommodate the norm. All the big miners......everyone knows you wonâ€t get anything done if you don't participate.<br>
The difference between the two systems is that one comes with less red tape…..<br>
Whether it is wrong or right is not my point........</p>
<p> </p>
<p>And I feel bugger all for FIFA...... they can fry for all I care.......the irony that the whole case was built on simple tax evasion adds to the stupidity of those involved.....fuck the Feds......the IRS will get you if nobody else will!</p>
<p>But I do laugh at the naivety and moral outrage of people cocooned in a first world bubble of spin and bullshit.....falling over much bigger corruption every day without even noticing it......<br>
How do you stamp it out? Fuck knows......probably canâ€t be done. One way or the other it will surface again.....wearing a new coat.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Also.....Can you think of a "fair" system of allocating the soccer WC? Fair to whom?<br>
One where the guy with the biggest budget wonâ€t simply bully the small guys into oblivion?</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>You haven't actually provided any evidence of the other sort of corruption. You also don't provide any sources. You come up with 1.2 billion dollars from somewhere but the New York Times says both Obama and Romney spent less than that in the last election. What is this bigger bribery we are falling over every day?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>If this isn't a strawman argument then I don't know what is.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="hydro11" data-cid="493125" data-time="1432882784">
<div>
<p>You haven't actually provided any evidence of the other sort of corruption. <strong>You also don't provide any sources. You come up with 1.2 billion dollars from somewhere but the New York Times says both Obama and Romney spent less than that in the last election.</strong> What is this bigger bribery we are falling over every day?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>If this isn't a strawman argument then I don't know what is.</p>
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</blockquote>
<p>Fair question Hydro......</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2015/jun/04/how-money-runs-our-politics/'>http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2015/jun/04/how-money-runs-our-politics/</a></p>
<p>
This can probably explain the loophole used in the tax code to channel "dark money" donations best of all....most other articles on the matter is based on party political hype and distorts the fact that both sides are equally guilty.....well worth the read in understanding the landmark Citizens United court case and verdict which has changed US politics forever.......with worldwide resultant implications.......<br>
In fact you are wasting your time trying to follow the US election campaigns without a good understanding of all this......follow the money.<br>
It looks like the $1.2 billion bar is going to be smashed to bits in 2016.....</p>
<p> </p>
<p>That only answers some of your questions......the rest you will have to figure out for yourself :yes:</p> -
Maybe the way NTA talks about the judiciary and Richies influence, the IRB will be next.
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So I guess NZ won't be holding anymore age group tournaments...the fact we've had 3 and Aus 0...
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Looks like the right kind of questions are now starting to emerge about the $46 million Aus spent on their bid....<br>
Allegations on morning TV that half of that was paid as bribes to corrupt officials to try and secure the bid.....will have to see if it sticks with any evidence.....any bets? -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="493272" data-time="1432932580"><p>I just emailed tv3 and asked them pm ETS and see if he's free between 7 and 7:30 on week nights.</p></blockquote>
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I don't know who tv3 is and what they do......but I checked my schedule and I am "free" for $ 20 000 an hour......<br>
For that money I will tell you anything you WANT to hear! -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Mokey" data-cid="493268" data-time="1432927433">
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<p>(would be interesting to see the countries who voted for him and their ranking on the world corruption ladder...)</p>
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</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>It's a secret ballot. Awful thing about it is a small bribe to Cayman Islands cancels out Germany's vote; a vote from Maldives cancels England's FA vote, etc. Blatter's re-election then, in a secret vote, was a formality.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="red terror" data-cid="493285" data-time="1432942304">
<div>
<p>It's a secret ballot. Awful thing about it is a small bribe to Cayman Islands cancels out Germany's vote; a vote from Maldives cancels England's FA vote, etc. Blatter's re-election then, in a secret vote, was a formality.</p>
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</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>I read a few years ago the strategy Blatter employs, and in a one country-one vote system like FIFA its laughably easy: poor countries like that are what keeps him going. He probably realised this before anyone else, rather than sucking up to the "traditional" powers who were meant to exert influence and favours, and now he's entrenched. Cut out the middle-man, effectively.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I tend to agree with El Toro's assessment: corruption is rife, just that in the West we don't associate it with simple money-for-favours. We like to dress it up a bit more. Its not what we call "fair", but then, nothing is.</p> -
<p><strong><span style="font-size:18px;"><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://screamer.deadspin.com/italian-paper-alleges-fifa-used-corrupt-refs-to-fix-200-1707704308'>Italian Paper Alleges FIFA Used Corrupt Refs To Fix 2002 World Cup Games</a></span></strong></p>
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</p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
<p><span style="font-family:Georgia, serif;font-size:15px;">The 2002 World Cup hosted jointly by South Korea and Japan was already infamous for its horrendous refereeing, most notably two knockout stage match-ups involving South Korea. Today, one Italian paper has linked what was widely believed to be match-fixing behavior back then to this current FIFA scandal.</span></p>
<p> </p>
<p><span style="font-family:Georgia, serif;font-size:15px;">[...]</span></p>
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