2019 under 20's
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From a monetary funding POV. I'm pretty sure the Oceania U20s is a World Rugby funded comp - as it forms a part of the JWC / JWT qualifying process.
A Sanzaar U20 comp would have to be paid for by the respective unions.
Also, for a Tier 2 perspective. Fiji plus one of either Tonga or Samoa getting some games v NZ and Aus is good for them. The contact between NZ and Fiji at a junior level is at a factor of x to the power of zillion compared to NZ v Fiji at senior test level.
However - a SH U20 comp would be great if it could be paid for.
Here is my fantasy pitch to get it World Rugby funded.
Make it a JWC/JWT qualifying funnel for Oceania, Southern Africa, South America
8 teams: 2 pools of 4 > then Final (PLus play offs for 3rd, 5th , 7th) = 4 games compared to current 3. Almost guaranteed 2 hard games each for the Sanzaar big 4.Top 5 qualify for JWC.
4 SANZAAR nations (permanent members, coz we have the votes ...)
plus- 2 Oceania (Fiji, Sam, Tga play off for the 2 spots)
- 1 Africa (Nam and Zim playoff for the spot)
- 1 South America (probably Uruguay, but playoff v Brazil, Chile, Paraguay etc form this spot)
Have achieved:
- a funded tournament
- harder tournament, than current, for the big 4
- exposure for 4 Tier 2 nations v Sanzaar big 4
- Existing Continental qualifying at T2 level for those who don't make it to the SH comp.
and Uruguay would probably give a harder match than the watery custard that Samoa and Tonga put out at youth level.
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@Rapido said in 2019 under 20's:
@98blueandgold said in 2019 under 20's:
Will be interesting what comes out of this, if we want to compete we need to probably play more games like Sth A who do tours to NH. Can’t see us centralising system.
This year is the first time South Africa have had an extended U20 program though. They, along with Argentina, are the most geographically isolated major rugby nation so usually turn up under-cooked. This year they hosted a quad tournament with Argentina and Georgia U20s plus some sort of Namibian senior team, and then went to UK pre-tournament and played some friendlies.
I don't now how SAF have gone, from what I have read out of SAF they're not a particularly promising crop of U20s this year that they are particularly hopeful for anyway.
Anyway. I am advocating absolutely no changes to the NZ U20 fixtures structure. 3 games in an Oceania tournament is plenty of prep.
This tournament happens every year. It's not a once every 2 years or every 4 years thing The U20s play 3 Oceania games and 5 world champs games every year (until Philpott gets us relegated to the World Trophy which is only 4 games each ....)
8 U20 tests per year is plenty. In fact it's heaps. The 6N teams playing 10 U20s per year is just overkill. Better that our players also get some time to rub shoulders with those grizzly 22 year old veterans running around in club rugby (while there's still some 22 year old rugby players actually left in this country).
I disagree with the Oceania Championship being a sufficient preparation. The only good team we're playing in that tournament is Australia. The other opponents, who seem to be different every year, are just not strong enough. Those 2 games are more opposed training runs than test matches. So bascially, NZU20s play one serious test match in preparation of the JWC.
S Africa played Georgia and Argentina (serious opposition; the Namibia XV game was opposed training game), and England and Wales. The travelling adds an extra dimension. Four test matches against good opposition.
South Africa has done well again this year. They'll be playing for bronze again.
Similarly, Argentina has also benefitted from their SA tour (IIRC they also played games against South American opponents, but not sure). Argentina is South Africa's opponent in the bronze final. Last year, they finished 6th (although, obviously home advantage may have helped a bit, too).I'd be happy if they would turn the Oceania Championship into an extended U20 Rugby Championship tournament, with NZ playing Australia, S Africa, Argentina and Fiji (and/or whichever other team from the South Pacific that has qualified for the WR U20 Championship and/or Trophy). At a different venue every year, alternating between S Africa, Argentina, Australia and New Zealand.
@Stargazer said in 2019 under 20's:
The only good team we're playing in that tournament is Australia
And that's no sure thing, given some of the past results
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had heard from someone in the know that the team was lacking in a number of areas a month or so back, turns out he was on the money.
@taniwharugby said in 2019 under 20's:
had heard from someone in the know that the team was lacking in a number of areas a month or so back, turns out he was on the money.
Discipline seemed to be the biggest thing lacking
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Australia this year seem to be doing just fine after having the Oceania Championship as preparation.
@KiwiMurph and in the past it’s worked for us playing in the Oceania rugby championship..would like to us take on a couple of super rugby development squads as well..I know when my nephew played against the Blues Dev back in 2017, it was a really good physical contest for the Baby Blacks .
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And we're going viral again for a high shot which wasn't an instant red card ...
https://twitter.com/NielGermishuys/status/1140662547277910016
The Walrus started it ... Says a lot about the Welsh mentality ... beat us, but still find something to have a good old bitch and moan about.
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And we're going viral again for a high shot which wasn't an instant red card ...
https://twitter.com/NielGermishuys/status/1140662547277910016
The Walrus started it ... Says a lot about the Welsh mentality ... beat us, but still find something to have a good old bitch and moan about.
@MajorRage Unfortunately, Finau seems to be prone to making controversial high tackles. Remember South Africans complaining about the hit in the tweet below?
@Stargazer said in 2019 under 20's:
South Africans on twitter are complaining that Finau wasn't carded here.
His technique may need some work; he won't be escaping a red card forever. But looking at the tackle in the Welsh game shown, the tackled player just landed from a jump, so moved downward when he hit the ground. Finau seemed to try going low, just not low enough, which may also have to do with the fact that he's probably somewhere between 1.90 and 1.95m tall. I assume this was the tackle he got yellow-carded for and the Welsh wanted red?
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@MajorRage Unfortunately, Finau seems to be prone to making controversial high tackles. Remember South Africans complaining about the hit in the tweet below?
@Stargazer said in 2019 under 20's:
South Africans on twitter are complaining that Finau wasn't carded here.
His technique may need some work; he won't be escaping a red card forever. But looking at the tackle in the Welsh game shown, the tackled player just landed from a jump, so moved downward when he hit the ground. Finau seemed to try going low, just not low enough, which may also have to do with the fact that he's probably somewhere between 1.90 and 1.95m tall. I assume this was the tackle he got yellow-carded for and the Welsh wanted red?
@Stargazer said in 2019 under 20's:
@MajorRage Unfortunately, Finau seems to be prone to making controversial high tackles. Remember South Africans complaining about the hit in the tweet below?
@Stargazer said in 2019 under 20's:
South Africans on twitter are complaining that Finau wasn't carded here.
His technique may need some work; he won't be escaping a red card forever. But looking at the tackle in the Welsh game shown, the tackled player just landed from a jump, so moved downward when he hit the ground. Finau seemed to try going low, just not low enough, which may also have to do with the fact that he's probably somewhere between 1.90 and 1.95m tall. I assume this was the tackle he got yellow-carded for and the Welsh wanted red?
Yeah, correct. The usual suspects talking about black invisibility cloaks etc. Quite a few safa's too ... although I guess the same that saw no problem with the coat hanger on Perenara.
I can see why some say red, for this, although I'm happy with the yellow. He was bloody low when he went in.
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Surely there could be more games vs. NZ senior teams as prep e.g. SR dev sides. Doesn't need to be other international u20 teams.
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All those moaners in the NH media got what they wanted ...
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So, according to the high-tackle sanction framework:
- it's a high tackle
- direct contact between shoulder and head
- degree of danger: arm swings forward prior to contact, active/dominant tackle, high speed, tackle completed, so high risk
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I think the first two mitigating factors may apply and yellow was correct, but obviously the citing commissioner didn't see it that way:
If the judiciary agrees that it should have been a red card, Finau will be looking at a mid-range suspension of 3-4 weeks.
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Clumsy, shit technique is not a mitigating factor.
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Yellow card seems about right. Again, why should the tackler be unjustly punished because people duck?
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Yellow card seems about right. Again, why should the tackler be unjustly punished because people duck?
@antipodean ducking into a tackle is a new technique, similarly jumping into a tackle.
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There was no "ducking on purpose" in this particular tackle, though. The player jumped to catch the high ball and dropped in height while landing.
@Stargazer doesnt mean that people wont do this...
He is very low at contact, basically in a sitting position, tackler is high for a seated person, but if the player was standing it woulda hit him nipple line.
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I'd give that a penalty only, upgraded to a yellow seeing as we are trying to change techniques on head contact. Could have started and stayed lower.
Flow chart: > Could he have doid? Yes. Then upgrade to a card. Could he have doid on purpose? No? Keep it at a yellow.
I don't have any other comparisons from the tournament to go by. As i haven't watched. I don't watch much rugby anymore as
people keep getting sent off and binned all the time and the games suck. I need to ration my viewing to maintain any enthusiasm. -
Geez, four weeks suspension! I know I predicted this in case the citing was upheld, but I really think it's excessive in this case.
The decision isn't available on the WR website yet, but this is the summary:
Samipeni Finau (New Zealand) New Zealand reserve Samipeni Finau appeared at a hearing before an independent World Rugby Disciplinary Committee chaired by Wang Shao Ing (Singapore) along with John Langford (former Australia player) and Sarah Smith (former Scotland player) in Rosario on 19 June, 2019 having been cited by Citing Commissioner Eugene Ryan (Ireland) for striking Wales full-back Ioan Davies with the shoulder/high tackle in breach of Law 9.13 in their match at the World Rugby U20 Championship in Rosario, Argentina, on 17 June, 2019. The Disciplinary Committee received evidence from Finau, Davies, the Wales team doctor and the referee as well as submissions on behalf of the player. The Disciplinary Committee considered that this was a high tackle which contacted Davies’ head and upheld the citing. They considered this a mid-range breach of Law 9.13 which carries a six-week entry point. The Disciplinary Committee considered the player’s previously clean record, youth and inexperience to reduce the sanction by two weeks to four weeks. Finau is suspended from Saturday’s final round at the World Rugby U20 Championship until after his club’s semi-final game in Waikato on 13 July or, if his club do not qualify for the finals, Waikato’s first Mitre 10 Cup pre-season game on 26 July, 2019.
