2019 under 20's

Stargazer

So, according to the high-tackle sanction framework:

it's a high tackle
direct contact between shoulder and head
degree of danger: arm swings forward prior to contact, active/dominant tackle, high speed, tackle completed, so high risk

.
I think the first two mitigating factors may apply and yellow was correct, but obviously the citing commissioner didn't see it that way:

If the judiciary agrees that it should have been a red card, Finau will be looking at a mid-range suspension of 3-4 weeks.

MiketheSnow

Clumsy, shit technique is not a mitigating factor.

antipodean

Yellow card seems about right. Again, why should the tackler be unjustly punished because people duck?

taniwharugby

@antipodean ducking into a tackle is a new technique, similarly jumping into a tackle.

Toddy

We're headed towards people ducking on purpose. Not to avoid tackles but to draw cards.

Stargazer

There was no "ducking on purpose" in this particular tackle, though. The player jumped to catch the high ball and dropped in height while landing.

taniwharugby

@Stargazer doesnt mean that people wont do this...

He is very low at contact, basically in a sitting position, tackler is high for a seated person, but if the player was standing it woulda hit him nipple line.

Rapido

I'd give that a penalty only, upgraded to a yellow seeing as we are trying to change techniques on head contact. Could have started and stayed lower.

Flow chart: > Could he have doid? Yes. Then upgrade to a card. Could he have doid on purpose? No? Keep it at a yellow.

I don't have any other comparisons from the tournament to go by. As i haven't watched. I don't watch much rugby anymore as
people keep getting sent off and binned all the time and the games suck. I need to ration my viewing to maintain any enthusiasm.

Stargazer

Geez, four weeks suspension! I know I predicted this in case the citing was upheld, but I really think it's excessive in this case.

The decision isn't available on the WR website yet, but this is the summary:

Samipeni Finau (New Zealand)

New Zealand reserve Samipeni Finau appeared at a hearing before an independent World Rugby Disciplinary Committee chaired by Wang Shao Ing (Singapore) along with John Langford (former Australia player) and Sarah Smith (former Scotland player) in Rosario on 19 June, 2019 having been cited by Citing Commissioner Eugene Ryan (Ireland) for striking Wales full-back Ioan Davies with the shoulder/high tackle in breach of Law 9.13 in their match at the World Rugby U20 Championship in Rosario, Argentina, on 17 June, 2019.  

The Disciplinary Committee received evidence from  Finau, Davies, the Wales team doctor and the referee as well as submissions on behalf of the player. The Disciplinary Committee considered that this was a high tackle which contacted Davies’ head and upheld the citing. They considered this a mid-range breach of Law 9.13 which carries a six-week entry point. The Disciplinary Committee considered the player’s previously clean record, youth and inexperience to reduce the sanction by two weeks to four weeks. 

Finau is suspended from Saturday’s final round at the World Rugby U20 Championship until after his club’s semi-final game in Waikato on 13 July or, if his club do not qualify for the finals, Waikato’s first Mitre 10 Cup pre-season game on 26 July, 2019.

Higgins

@Stargazer Bit of a wishy washy sentence when it comes to the date. The kid is suspended in an Under 20s game and at that age he could conceivably play for his club's Premier, Premier Reserve or even Colts teams. If his club's first two teams bomb out and don't make the playoffs and their Colts do hopefully that game should count as his July 13 standdown. Incidentally there is a two week gap between the specified dates ( 13 and 26 July) but the ruling is that he must miss one additional match should his club miss out on play offs. Surely two weeks means he could conceivably miss out on two games.

Stargazer

Scott Gregory injured. Moonboot.

taniwharugby

@Stargazer fuck...

WillieTheWaiter

was at a Q&A session with fozzie last night.. he was asked if he was concerned about the u20 performance.

His response was that unlike other countries they treat u20's as 'developmental' vs 'high performance'. By which he meant that it's not that they don't want to win it but they want to have a wide group of players to develop and don't dedicate the time to it other countries do. but he defo had some concerns about the result.

he said he spent 3 days with the coaching staff in the lead up to the spanking from Aus.. he said after that loss Mike Kron rang him up and said 'thank fcuk you didn't spend 5 days with them!'

Stargazer

@WillieTheWaiter Fozzie's time would have been better spent with the players they want to develop. The coaching staff is their biggest problem.

Stargazer

You can find the decision in the Finau case here (it downloads a pdf file): https://pulse-static-files.s3.amazonaws.com/worldrugby/document/2019/06/20/63eb654e-9909-452d-aba0-8300b2cad88f/WR-Judicial-Hearing-Decision-Samipeni-Finau-190620.pdf

Here's the bit about which games have been taken into account for his suspension"

nzzp

@Stargazer said in 2019 under 20's:

Geez, four weeks suspension! I know I predicted this in case the citing was upheld, but I really think it's excessive in this case.

Hell, that's tough. I struggle where both players are dropping - if Finau was 6 inches lower it would have been a well time smashing. To start at 6 weeks for that is tough.

Ah well, modern rugby. I think you're going to see a lot of head first runners in the RWC; we shoudl lead the way in bending the rules to win. Lots of bent over running, drive a shedload of mauls from everywhere, and contest loads of high balls. The only way to force rule changes is to make them appear farcical by gaming them

Chris

@Stargazer Or Stay away completely I am not convinced of Fosters Coaching ability.

Stargazer

@Chris Can't be worse than Philpott.

Stargazer

NZ U20s team to play Ireland for 7th place:

1 Oliver Norris
2 Shilo Klein
3 Fletcher Newell
4 Cullen Grace
5 Tupo Vaa'i
6 Kaylum Boshier (C)
7 Jeriah Mua
8 Simon Parker
9 Taufa Funaki
10 Rivez Reihana
11 Leicester Fainga'anuku
12 Quinn Tupaea
13 Billy Proctor
14 Etene Nanai Seturo
15 Cole Forbes

16 Kianu Kereru-Symes
17 Robert Cobb
18 Kaliopasi Uluilakepa
19 Tamaiti Williams
20 Taine Plumtree
22 James Thompson
23 Kohan Herbert
24 Leroy Carter
25 Fergus Burke
26 Dallas McLeod
27 Chay Fihaki

Six players were not considered for the game due to injury and the suspension of Samipeni Finau, who was ruled out when his yellow card against Wales was upgraded to a red card. Three players have been flown from New Zealand to join the squad: Rob Cobb, Chay Fihaki and James Thompson.

Keanu Kereru Symes (neck injury), Devan Flanders, Lalomilo Lalomilo (concussion), New Zealand Sevens representative Scott Gregory has a heel injury and has returned to New Zealand while George Dyer has a torn ligament in a toe and will require surgery and will be out for four to six months.

So he has a neck injury and can't play, but they still name Kereru-Symes on the bench? Or a mistake in the list, again? Or do they just write down names for the sake of naming a full bench?

NOTE the changed kick-off time of 4.00am on Sunday morning NZT. (I hope Spark Sport has noticed it, too)

http://www.allblacks.com/News/34309/new-zealand-under-20-named-for-ireland-clash

Stargazer

The only thing I like about that line-up are nos. 11-14. Glad to see Burke moved to the bench, so Reihana gets another chance at 10.

The Silver Fern

2019 under 20's