TRC: Pumas v All Blacks
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@booboo said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Hooroo said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Hooroo said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@rotated said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
I don't get the love for Cane here. Did nobody see him drop it cold in that second half? Most players who do that get crucified here. He's probably short of a gallop, but at the moment Ardie is easily our best seven.
Probably given his 60 odd test record of quality play you aren't going to crucify a guy for dropping one ball in his first test back from massive back surgery? Just to see him out there not looking massively off the pace is a huge win IMO.
Ah no, I'm not, but that's standard here for some player. But fark me a 60 odd test AB and captain should not be dropping those. That was schoolboy stuff and was massive opportunity missed.
I have no idea how Ritchie McCaw lasted so long in the ABs. Must have been teachers pet or summink
That guy used to drop them cold too.
Bloody favourites.
After 60 tests and as captain? I don't think so. You seem to have this image of McCaw circa 2003 and can't get it out of your brain.
No. No I don’t. He also dropped the ball in his prime. Sometimes knocked it on. I’ve also seen Brodie drop it stone cold too. Maybe we should retrospectively lambast him for a one off event
Yes, yes you do. Iirc you also had some bizzarre comment about his attacking skills a while back. He did not drop pill like that as captain.
Are we talking Brodie in this game? He certainly deserves criticism for his tits for hands against Ireland
Ever?
I can't refute that with evidence but I would be surprised.
Of course he dropped the ball, but I can't recall a drop like that at. At any rate, we're not talking about McCaw and it was a bad mistake. Can we at least agree on that?
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Los Pumas had the ABs on the rope in 2nd half & didn't knock them out
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I specifically remember Richie dropping one cold in the lead up to RWC15, which was used as ammo for the 'DC and Richie have past it' brigade calling for dropping them.
@Machpants said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
I specifically remember Richie dropping one cold in the lead up to RWC15, which was used as ammo for the 'DC and Richie have past it' brigade calling for dropping them.
The point is that it's a bad mistake that deserves to be criticized, regardless of whether McCaw, Kronfeld, Mourie, Jones, Hobbs etc. may have done it as well.
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Gents ... bar stool rule ...
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@Jaguares4real said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@booboo said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Rebound said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
Angus Gardener is such a shit coach. Pulling penalty calls out of his ass. Offside and playing the guy in the air at the end
Don't think he was that bad
Agree
Don't see what all the whinging is all about
If he missed anything then his AR's + TMO should have spotted it
Failing that players get cited
Folks are making a mountain of a molehill
Boulderdash. Reverse the side and you'd be calling for the player's head and demanding the ref be executed.
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Just watched the Ardie shoulder charge incident again. Disgraceful. Happened right in front of Gardner and he just waved it on. Could very easily have led to a try.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
Just watched the Ardie shoulder charge incident again. Disgraceful. Happened right in front of Gardner and he just waved it on. Could very easily have led to a try.
Have you got a time stamp?
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@Machpants said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
I specifically remember Richie dropping one cold in the lead up to RWC15, which was used as ammo for the 'DC and Richie have past it' brigade calling for dropping them.
The point is that it's a bad mistake that deserves to be criticized, regardless of whether McCaw, Kronfeld, Mourie, Jones, Hobbs etc. may have done it as well.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Machpants said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
I specifically remember Richie dropping one cold in the lead up to RWC15, which was used as ammo for the 'DC and Richie have past it' brigade calling for dropping them.
The point is that it's a bad mistake that deserves to be criticized, regardless of whether McCaw, Kronfeld, Mourie, Jones, Hobbs etc. may have done it as well.
You may as well do each individual then. In every game for every one off
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Machpants said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
I specifically remember Richie dropping one cold in the lead up to RWC15, which was used as ammo for the 'DC and Richie have past it' brigade calling for dropping them.
The point is that it's a bad mistake that deserves to be criticized, regardless of whether McCaw, Kronfeld, Mourie, Jones, Hobbs etc. may have done it as well.
You may as well do each individual then. In every game for every one off
@Hooroo said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Machpants said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
I specifically remember Richie dropping one cold in the lead up to RWC15, which was used as ammo for the 'DC and Richie have past it' brigade calling for dropping them.
The point is that it's a bad mistake that deserves to be criticized, regardless of whether McCaw, Kronfeld, Mourie, Jones, Hobbs etc. may have done it as well.
You may as well do each individual then. In every game for every one off
You might as well shrug off an error by a player now with the argument that a guy who retired 4 years ago may have done the same thing.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
Just watched the Ardie shoulder charge incident again. Disgraceful. Happened right in front of Gardner and he just waved it on. Could very easily have led to a try.
Have you got a time stamp?
@Machpants said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
Just watched the Ardie shoulder charge incident again. Disgraceful. Happened right in front of Gardner and he just waved it on. Could very easily have led to a try.
Have you got a time stamp?
51:00 exactly.
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@Machpants said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
Just watched the Ardie shoulder charge incident again. Disgraceful. Happened right in front of Gardner and he just waved it on. Could very easily have led to a try.
Have you got a time stamp?
51:00 exactly.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Machpants said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
Just watched the Ardie shoulder charge incident again. Disgraceful. Happened right in front of Gardner and he just waved it on. Could very easily have led to a try.
Have you got a time stamp?
51:00 exactly.
Thanks
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@Jaguares4real said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@booboo said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Rebound said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
Angus Gardener is such a shit coach. Pulling penalty calls out of his ass. Offside and playing the guy in the air at the end
Don't think he was that bad
Agree
Don't see what all the whinging is all about
If he missed anything then his AR's + TMO should have spotted it
Failing that players get cited
Folks are making a mountain of a molehill
Boulderdash. Reverse the side and you'd be calling for the player's head and demanding the ref be executed.
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@Chester-Draws said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Jaguares4real said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
So do you go all out with a shallow playing pool + by far worst travel schedule in world rugby or do you pick & choose what games you prioritise
The Pumas do not have "by far the worst travel schedule". You're on a group from New Zealand for goodness sake. We're literally the furthest away from all the other rugby playing nations. Your NH tour tours are both much less far and with far less time difference.
Argentina in the Rugby Championship have one more long trip than NZ or Australia, but there are direct flights to each country involved. South Africa have to travel just as far as you.
The difference is that we win away from home, so people assume that we don't have travel issues. That's not true -- we've merely learnt to overcome them. The Pumas problem is not the travel, but that they don't play well away from home, regardless of the travel time involved.
You're having a laugh comparing Pumas to ABs in any way re. travel especially if you include Super Rugby which you have to extract any meaningful points
One has 5 pro club established for over 20 years which gives ABs a player pool of 150+ players to choose from
Other has 1 pro club side in their 4th season giving Pumas about 35 players to choose from
One has their club sides play 80-85% of their games in good times Other has 50% of their games in another continent and multiple timeszones behind Nearest "derby match" is 10,000 km away
TRC format favours NZ & AUS big time 3 of 4 games at home to start the comp every year
EOYT are 4 games and a chance to rotate for NZ especially mickey mouse sides like Italy
TBH in the TRC Los Pumas have generally played better away from him than in BA Mendoza Salta etc. over the last 5 years
@Jaguares4real said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
You're having a laugh comparing Pumas to ABs in any way re. travel especially if you include Super Rugby which you have to extract any meaningful points
Look, stick to one competition. I don't compare the ABs travel to include Super Rugby, because they don't play in Super Rugby.
ABs and Pumas have similar travel in the Championship. Which is what this thread is about.
If you want to talk about the Jaguares, in a thread about the Pumas, then the worst travel itinerary is the Sunwolves.
One has 5 pro club established for over 20 years which gives ABs a player pool of 150+ players to choose from
Other has 1 pro club side in their 4th season giving Pumas about 35 players to choose from
Nothing to do with travel.
The Pumas used to pick a team with no pro club sides. Their pool includes a substantial number playing in Europe.
One has their club sides play 80-85% of their games in good times Other has 50% of their games in another continent and multiple timeszones behind Nearest "derby match" is 10,000 km away
TRC format favours NZ & AUS big time 3 of 4 games at home to start the comp every year
Like this year, you mean? Travel hasn't yet started for the Pumas and you're already using it as an excuse. NZ and Australia simply cannot have "3 of 4" home big games at the start of the competition. And for every home game at the start they have an away game at the end.
You make it sound like NZ gets more home games than the Pumas.
EOYT are 4 games and a chance to rotate for NZ especially mickey mouse sides like Italy
You do know we play France, England, Ireland etc, don't you? We get maybe one lightweight in our NH tours.
Italy is "mickey mouse" to us, because the All Blacks are very good. They aren't mickey mouse to the Pumas though.
Because the ABs make light work of travelling halfway round the world, changing 12 hours, and then whip other sides doesn't mean they haven't travelled. It just means they are very good at doing it.
TBH in the TRC Los Pumas have generally played better away from him than in BA Mendoza Salta etc. over the last 5 years
Yeah, but not outside Argentina. That's where the real problem lies. Very little to do with travel.
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@Jaguares4real said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@98blueandgold said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Machpants disagree because these are the same issues we have been having against good structured D for a few years.
The drop balls are a result of pressure caused by D. We looked rushed rather than threatening. Happening too often. ABs are a tempo team and when teams slow us down it becomes a contest, Eng/Ire/SA having better players at exploiting than Argies. Just structure and issues are sameLargely agree Game was reminiscent of their last 2 games on 2018 EOYT
Eng and Ire played a similar game and both sides were the better side
Sadly for Pumas they did not take their chances and lost the game like Eng
ABs had 23 turnovers & about 13-14 handling errors There was definitely an air of panic in their attack ALOT of 50-50 passes being chucked around carelessly Albeit under immense defensive duress by ARG
Gap has closed btw ABs and rest of Tier 1 nations post 2015 RWC
Do you not understand the concept of keeping your powder dry?
@Crucial said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Jaguares4real said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@98blueandgold said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Machpants disagree because these are the same issues we have been having against good structured D for a few years.
The drop balls are a result of pressure caused by D. We looked rushed rather than threatening. Happening too often. ABs are a tempo team and when teams slow us down it becomes a contest, Eng/Ire/SA having better players at exploiting than Argies. Just structure and issues are sameLargely agree Game was reminiscent of their last 2 games on 2018 EOYT
Eng and Ire played a similar game and both sides were the better side
Sadly for Pumas they did not take their chances and lost the game like Eng
ABs had 23 turnovers & about 13-14 handling errors There was definitely an air of panic in their attack ALOT of 50-50 passes being chucked around carelessly Albeit under immense defensive duress by ARG
Gap has closed btw ABs and rest of Tier 1 nations post 2015 RWC
Do you not understand the concept of keeping your powder dry?
Especially in a friendly.
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Thought our defence was generally very good, although Reece coming in off his wing is a worry.
Our attack though and the forced passes are a concern, although you could pass some off as early season rust.
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@Crucial said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Jaguares4real said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@98blueandgold said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Machpants disagree because these are the same issues we have been having against good structured D for a few years.
The drop balls are a result of pressure caused by D. We looked rushed rather than threatening. Happening too often. ABs are a tempo team and when teams slow us down it becomes a contest, Eng/Ire/SA having better players at exploiting than Argies. Just structure and issues are sameLargely agree Game was reminiscent of their last 2 games on 2018 EOYT
Eng and Ire played a similar game and both sides were the better side
Sadly for Pumas they did not take their chances and lost the game like Eng
ABs had 23 turnovers & about 13-14 handling errors There was definitely an air of panic in their attack ALOT of 50-50 passes being chucked around carelessly Albeit under immense defensive duress by ARG
Gap has closed btw ABs and rest of Tier 1 nations post 2015 RWC
Do you not understand the concept of keeping your powder dry?
Fire away as you seem to know something I'm missing out on.........
@Jaguares4real said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Crucial said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Jaguares4real said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@98blueandgold said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Machpants disagree because these are the same issues we have been having against good structured D for a few years.
The drop balls are a result of pressure caused by D. We looked rushed rather than threatening. Happening too often. ABs are a tempo team and when teams slow us down it becomes a contest, Eng/Ire/SA having better players at exploiting than Argies. Just structure and issues are sameLargely agree Game was reminiscent of their last 2 games on 2018 EOYT
Eng and Ire played a similar game and both sides were the better side
Sadly for Pumas they did not take their chances and lost the game like Eng
ABs had 23 turnovers & about 13-14 handling errors There was definitely an air of panic in their attack ALOT of 50-50 passes being chucked around carelessly Albeit under immense defensive duress by ARG
Gap has closed btw ABs and rest of Tier 1 nations post 2015 RWC
Do you not understand the concept of keeping your powder dry?
Fire away as you seem to know something I'm missing out on.........
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@Jaguares4real said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
You're having a laugh comparing Pumas to ABs in any way re. travel especially if you include Super Rugby which you have to extract any meaningful points
Look, stick to one competition. I don't compare the ABs travel to include Super Rugby, because they don't play in Super Rugby.
ABs and Pumas have similar travel in the Championship. Which is what this thread is about.
If you want to talk about the Jaguares, in a thread about the Pumas, then the worst travel itinerary is the Sunwolves.
One has 5 pro club established for over 20 years which gives ABs a player pool of 150+ players to choose from
Other has 1 pro club side in their 4th season giving Pumas about 35 players to choose from
Nothing to do with travel.
The Pumas used to pick a team with no pro club sides. Their pool includes a substantial number playing in Europe.
One has their club sides play 80-85% of their games in good times Other has 50% of their games in another continent and multiple timeszones behind Nearest "derby match" is 10,000 km away
TRC format favours NZ & AUS big time 3 of 4 games at home to start the comp every year
Like this year, you mean? Travel hasn't yet started for the Pumas and you're already using it as an excuse. NZ and Australia simply cannot have "3 of 4" home big games at the start of the competition. And for every home game at the start they have an away game at the end.
You make it sound like NZ gets more home games than the Pumas.
EOYT are 4 games and a chance to rotate for NZ especially mickey mouse sides like Italy
You do know we play France, England, Ireland etc, don't you? We get maybe one lightweight in our NH tours.
Italy is "mickey mouse" to us, because the All Blacks are very good. They aren't mickey mouse to the Pumas though.
Because the ABs make light work of travelling halfway round the world, changing 12 hours, and then whip other sides doesn't mean they haven't travelled. It just means they are very good at doing it.
TBH in the TRC Los Pumas have generally played better away from him than in BA Mendoza Salta etc. over the last 5 years
Yeah, but not outside Argentina. That's where the real problem lies. Very little to do with travel.
@Chester-Draws said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
Yeah, but not outside Argentina. That's where the real problem lies. Very little to do with travel.
Chester you're showing your lack of knowledge on ARG rugby
You can not separate Jaguares from Los PumasThe success of the former is heavily correlated to the success of the latter The driving force for improvement
Pumas don't have an endless supply of players to use and call up
Sunwolves are a Baba club side full of 2nd rate Kiwis Saffa Aussies & Polynesian "Japanese" players They play in a similar time zone to NZ and AUS so travel is much less of a factor
Anyway they used as many players this year ~62 as Jaguares who have ever played for the ARG club side in their 4 years of Super Rugby
Finally Italy are no concern on the field for ARG Only issue with them is poaching ARG players and making them play for Italy
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@Crucial said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
Ardie and stand out for being good. Jordie a stand out for being a waste of space.
Ardie, BBBR and A Smith top 3 for me. Cane close behind.
Hated this forcing passes in traffic tactic thoughI don't get the love for Cane here. Did nobody see him drop it cold in that second half? Most players who do that get crucified here. He's probably short of a gallop, but at the moment Ardie is easily our best seven.
@Rancid-Schnitzel I agree. Ardie is definitely the form 7 and Read at 8. Fafita was shite. Hemopo had more of an impact and mongrel. 6 is our worry position. And Aaron Smith shoveling out wide continuously showed poor judgement. He is running the show and we needed to establish go forward in the forwards. He has the best pass but we need someone making runs around the rucks. This will probably go over like a lead balloon.
