Flag

Winger

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="514398" data-time="1441703742">
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Your process might achieve what YOU want...then again, your professional flag pickers might still pick one you didnt want, what then of your process?
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Fine. Then I would vote for one of the other 3 options.
 
And the wildcard might be another fern option for those that want a fern. But if they found the right world class designers as SA did I'm sure they could come up with a great design as 1 of the 4 options.

canefan

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="514400" data-time="1441703976">
<div>
Fine. Then I would vote for one of the other 3 options.
 
And the wildcard might be another fern option for those that want a fern. But if they found the right world class designers as SA did I'm sure they could come up with a great design as 1 of the 4 options.
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Thats just it. No one liked any of the designs, regardless of who the designers were. The final flag was a modified version of one of the flags submitted. I'm not surprised, change is difficult

infidel

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="514189" data-time="1441668200">
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I would love to the genesis for this 'Red Peak' campaign. I bet dollars to donuts it wasn't simply.. 'hey this is a cool flag'.... it would have been 'hey this is a cool flag, why did Key and his puppets not allow this is an option?'
 
 
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I think this answers your question?
 
Basically it won a competition sponsored by Gareth Morgan.
 
Oops, the red peak is similar to the flag that won Gareth Morgan's comp,not the same, my bad, so no idea of the genesis of the red peak specifically. <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://designmyflag.nz/'>http://designmyflag.nz/</a>
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11509184'>http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11509184</a>
 
Top entries from the comp here
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://designmyflag.nz/morgan-foundation-flag-competition-judging-results/'>http://designmyflag.nz/morgan-foundation-flag-competition-judging-results/</a>

Winger

Interesting
 
Nepal is doing well (7146 like 3711 thumbs down0
 
The majority have more thumbs down than up. Including NZ, Aust, and Canada)
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/prettiest-flag'>http://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/prettiest-flag</a>
 
Nepals colors are black blue red and white
 
<img src="http://img2.rnkr-static.com/user_node_img/84/1661948/C100/nepal-all-countries-photo-u2.jpg" alt="nepal-all-countries-photo-u2.jpg">

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="514404" data-time="1441704714">Interesting 
 
Nepal is doing well (7146 like 3711 thumbs down0 
 
The majority have more thumbs down than up. Including NZ, Aust, and Canada) 
 <a class="bbc_url" href="http://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/prettiest-flag">http://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/prettiest-flag</a> 
 
Nepals colors are black blue red and white 
 <img src="http://img2.rnkr-static.com/user_node_img/84/1661948/C100/nepal-all-countries-photo-u2.jpg" alt="nepal-all-countries-photo-u2.jpg"></blockquote>
 
That's heinous .

No Quarter

It's impossible to tell exactly how much support any of the flags have. There has been vocal opposition to the final 4, but people that oppose something will always scream the loudest. That doesn't mean they are in the majority. 
I would not be at all surprised if Red Peak was added and then polled in last place. 
Personally I don't like the final 4, but I have no idea if I am in the majority.

Rembrandt

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="514411" data-time="1441706260">
It's impossible to tell exactly how much support any of the flags have. There has been vocal opposition to the final 4, but people that oppose something will always scream the loudest. That doesn't mean they are in the majority. 
I would not be at all surprised if Red Peak was added and then polled in last place. 
Personally I don't like the final 4, but I have no idea if I am in the majority.</blockquote>
 
Sounds to me we should put a poll up here

Sneakdefreak

Can't be arsed trawling through the previous pages of this thread because I'm sick of fucking flag this and flag that, but everyone knows that Red Peak's social media popularity was just some swanky pr company, right?

Rancid Schnitzel

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bones" data-cid="514298" data-time="1441693476">
I really don't get this kind of argument. Loads of NZers go to the mountains, there are more places than Wanaka or Arthur's Pass. But how does any lack of mountainous activity by NZers then relate to us what...ummm...growing ferns? Looking at ferns? Going to the ferns? The fern isn't unique to NZ either. 
Oh and I'm intrigued to hear the last post played on a triangle.</blockquote>
 
Classy. Hope you're proud of yourself.

red terror

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="514341" data-time="1441699402">
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NZ does not have to do like Canada did though
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That is true, and rightly true, because clearly they're not going about it the same way. Canada didn't have Johnny Mulligan parachuting in with a new design past the submission deadline. So that's one difference. And Canadians didn't demand a red maple leaf and then instead get offered a brown shape that symbolized a bottle of maple syrup, or a radical round pink medallion with a yellow pea-meal outline (to symbolize the dawn of an early morning near the North Pole and back-bacon for breakfast). They got the red maple leaf they asked for and expected. The resistance to change seems to have been a minor hiccup by comparison to what's happening here, so yeah, this particular process is quite a bit different, I'm in agreement with you there.

red terror

Another new-comer. I'm slowly becoming partial...
 
<img src="https://40.media.tumblr.com/a49fb473b8040828f821368e380a9173/tumblr_inline_nucgasj34D1rzvgly_540.jpg" alt="tumblr_inline_nucgasj34D1rzvgly_540.jpg">
 
<ul><li>Red-white-blue tri-colours symbolizing tradition;</li>
<li>Post-modern deconstruction of the Union Jack symbolizing liberty and overcoming colonialism;</li>
<li>Sacred black stripes symbolizing Maoridom;</li>
<li>Two symbolic red swatches, representing both main islands;</li>
<li>Southern Cross replicated in the St. Andrews Cross, symbolizing cosmology, Aotearoa's place in the universe, and the Otago Highlanders;</li>
<li>Triangles symbolizing volcanoes and mountains and fiords and stuff;</li>
<li>The perfect compromise banner, all in an attractive perfectly balanced composition, will please everybody.</li>
</ul> 
Okay, none of that is actually true.
 
It's the racing silks when Kiwi won his memorable Melbourne Cup in 1983, so you could say it's the Ultimate Kiwi Flag and a "proven winner."
 
Point is, if anyone wanted to (and I'm sure some want to), they could conceivably concoct any ol' "painted word" symbology with nebulous theories applying byzantine meanings into shapes, lines and colour, and then swear to you it's perfect. I'm doing it right now.

Winger

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="red terror" data-cid="514447" data-time="1441721857">
<div>
That is true, and rightly true, because clearly they're not going about it the same way. Canada didn't have Johnny Mulligan parachuting in with a new design past the submission deadline. So that's one difference. And Canadians didn't demand a red maple leaf and then instead get offered a brown shape that symbolized a bottle of maple syrup, or a radical round pink medallion with a yellow pea-meal outline (to symbolize the dawn of an early morning near the North Pole and back-bacon for breakfast). They got the red maple leaf they asked for and expected. The resistance to change seems to have been a minor hiccup by comparison to what's happening here, so yeah, this particular process is quite a bit different, I'm in agreement with you there.
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And it was a long time ago now
 
NZ seem to be following more closely the SA route

Flag of Canada

<div>
<div>From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</div>
</div>
<div>This article is about the national flag of Canada. For other Canadian flags, see <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_flags' title="List of Canadian flags">List of Canadian flags</a>.</div>

	Canada

			&nbsp;
	
			&nbsp;
	
			<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_vexillology' title="Glossary of vexillology">Use</a>
		
			<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_flag' title="National flag">National flag</a>, <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_ensign' title="Civil ensign">civil</a> and <a  class="" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_ensign" title="State ensign">state ensign</a>
	
			Proportion
		
			1:2
	
			Adopted
		
			February 15, 1965
	
			Design
		
			A vertical bicolour <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triband_%28flag%29' title="Triband (flag)">triband</a> of red, white, and red in the ratio 1:2:1, with a red <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maple_leaf' title="Maple leaf">maple leaf</a> charged in the centre
	
			Designed&nbsp;by
		
			<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Stanley' title="George Stanley">George F.G. Stanley</a>
	<p>The <b>National Flag of Canada</b>,<sup><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Canada#cite_note-1'><span>[</span>1<span>]</span></a></sup> also known as the <b>Maple Leaf</b> and <i><b><span>l'UnifoliÃ©</span></b></i> (<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_language' title="French language">French</a> for "the one-leafed"), is a <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag' title="Flag">flag</a> consisting of a red field with a white square at its centre, in the middle of which is featured a stylized, 11-pointed, red <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maple_leaf' title="Maple leaf">maple leaf</a>. It is the first ever specified by law for use as the country's national flag.</p>

In 1964, Prime Minister <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lester_B._Pearson' title="Lester B. Pearson">Lester B. Pearson</a> formed a committee to resolve the issue, sparking a serious <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Canadian_Flag_Debate' title="Great Canadian Flag Debate">debate about a flag change</a> to replace the <a class="" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Flag" title="Union Flag">Union Flag</a>. Out of three choices, the maple leaf design by <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Stanley' title="George Stanley">George Stanley</a>,<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Canada#cite_note-2'>[2]</a> based on the flag of the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Military_College_of_Canada' title="Royal Military College of Canada">Royal Military College of Canada</a>, was selected. The flag made its first official appearance on February 15, 1965; the date is now celebrated annually as <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Flag_of_Canada_Day' title="National Flag of Canada Day">National Flag of Canada Day</a>.
The <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Red_Ensign' title="Canadian Red Ensign">Canadian Red Ensign</a> had been unofficially used since the 1890s and was approved by a 1945 <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_in_Council' title="Order in Council">Order in Council</a> for use "wherever place or occasion may make it desirable to fly a distinctive Canadian flag".<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Canada#cite_note-1945_order-3'>[3]</a><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Canada#cite_note-first_flags-4'>[4]</a> Also, the <a class="" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Flag" title="Union Flag">Royal Union Flag</a> remains an official flag in Canada. There is no law dictating how the national flag is to be treated. There are, however, conventions and protocols to guide how it is to be displayed and its place in the order of precedence of flags, which gives it primacy over the aforementioned and most other flags.
Many different flags created for use by Canadian officials, government bodies, and military forces contain the maple leaf motif in some fashion, either by having the Canadian flag charged in the canton, or by including maple leaves in the design.

Virgil

A lot easier to change the national flag in 1965 then 2015! Little thing called social media and keyboard warriors. 
Too many voices now too many whack jobs with an opinion that think is important. 
This whole rushed 'NZ Flag Idol/X factor' referendum is a complete waste of time. 
What happens when 51% want one flag and 49% the other? ( change vs old flag ) 
Hardly a majority is it. 
I'm open to change btw, I just don't like the way it's going about and the options we are being forced to choose from. 
I don't feel we should change for the sake of change though.

Baron Silas Greenback

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Virgil" data-cid="514468" data-time="1441738237">
<div>
A lot easier to change the national flag in 1965 then 2015! Little thing called social media and keyboard warriors. 
Too many voices now too many whack jobs with an opinion that think is important. 
This whole rushed 'NZ Flag Idol/X factor' referendum is a complete waste of time. 
What happens when 51% want one flag and 49% the other? ( change vs old flag ) 
Hardly a majority is it. 
I'm open to change btw, I just don't like the way it's going about and the options we are being forced to choose from. 
I don't feel we should change for the sake of change though.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
 
I think you need to look up what majority means.... because you seem to be following the Green parties definition.

hydro11

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bones" data-cid="514298" data-time="1441693476">
<div>
I really don't get this kind of argument. Loads of NZers go to the mountains, there are more places than Wanaka or Arthur's Pass. But how does any lack of mountainous activity by NZers then relate to us what...ummm...growing ferns? Looking at ferns? Going to the ferns? The fern isn't unique to NZ either. 
Oh and I'm intrigued to hear the last post played on a triangle.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
The fern is unique to New Zealand. We are the only place in the world where it grows naturally, as red Terror points out. It would be as bizarre for any other country to put a fern on their flag as it would be for us to put a polar bear. Regardless, it is our national symbol. It was used by our soldiers in the Boer War. I'm sure not every Canadian eats maple syrup either but it is clearly the symbol that represents them.

Bones

I'm confused, ferns only grow in NZ? Really?

Crucial

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bones" data-cid="514513" data-time="1441755090">
<div>
I'm confused, ferns only grow in NZ? Really?
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I think he means Cyathea dealbata (Silver Fern) which is an NZ plant not naturally found elsewhere.

mariner4life

This is an aside, but it's a similar story to the above
 
Here in Cairns we have this park near the centre of the city that isn't used by anyone except circles of drunk aboriginals (and no that's not a racist generalisation, it's a problem acknowledged by the police, in the paper today they said they have poured out 1,800 litres of booze this year). The Council have a plan to develop the site into a parklands and cultural entertainment precinct. Currently, this park looks like shit, and no one seems to go there except when the circus is in town, but it does have some big old trees on it. The council plan is pretty good, and is a much-needed boost to the city, providing a few jobs etc, as well as generally improving the city.
 
Of course, the development requires the chopping down of a few trees. Yes, they are old, but they are fucking Mango trees, this isn't some rare, slow growing species of tree we're talking here. And the Council's plan will be replacing the current trees with 64 other native trees.
 
Of course, the hippy fuckwits are out in force. Some smelly long-haired fluffybunny has been sitting in it for a week. Countless letters/texts to the paper about how the council are destroying the city. If you listened to the chatter, you would think the masses are against the project. The reality is the exact opposite. But, as usual (and as above) the minority are by far the loudest. There's always some spokesman from some never-before-heard-of environmental action group wanting to put in their 2 cents. And the message is all the same, progess is bad and evil, the status quo should be maintained at all costs. 
 
It's a fucking issue up here with a battling economy, and a couple of big issues that could change the place (a massive international resort, and dredging out the port) facing vocal opposition from an ill-informed minority. Fuck social media.

MajorRage

Mariner, have you thought about the children?

mariner4life

I have, and i am fucked if i am taking my kids to that park in its current state.

The Silver Fern

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