TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98)
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Yeah, when I watched the presser, I was surprised at how positive he was - once I started watching the replay, I could see why.
Honestly, he’s still a project and has some rough points (overrunning rucks then not joining through the gate is one dangerous one) but he positions himself to make an impact - he mostly took that midfield set up on defense (rather than Fifita who always looks for a wide spot), and is really active in helping set the defense around the ruck. If they keep playing him and gets a bit more accurate (positioning himself to be a real option as the dummy runner is another point he should work on), then he’ll find it easier to get back to clean (because he won’t be miles past the play when we go to the man behind), and will get more meters.
If they are going to experiment again, I’d put Hemopo in 6 against the wobblies to see if he has the speed to play there, with Frizell on the bench (Pat T to start) with Ardie. That would give plenty of options for some power and speed off the bench.
@gt12 said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
Yeah, when I watched the presser, I was surprised at how positive he was - once I started watching the replay, I could see why.
I think he deserves a pass mark and nothing more.
I think Hansen's comment was grading him on a sliding scale. We've had so many poor efforts from our starting 6's in the past couple of seasons that someone not shitting the bed is considered worthy of praise
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@gt12 said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
Yeah, when I watched the presser, I was surprised at how positive he was - once I started watching the replay, I could see why.
I think he deserves a pass mark and nothing more.
I think Hansen's comment was grading him on a sliding scale. We've had so many poor efforts from our starting 6's in the past couple of seasons that someone not shitting the bed is considered worthy of praise
@Duluth said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@gt12 said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
Yeah, when I watched the presser, I was surprised at how positive he was - once I started watching the replay, I could see why.
I think he deserves a pass mark and nothing more.
I think Hansen's comment was grading him on a sliding scale. We've had so many poor efforts from our starting 6's in the past couple of seasons that someone not shitting the bed is considered worthy of praise
Agreed. I think that if they see Hemopo as a 6, now is the time to try. Either that or commit to Frizell for better or worse as our workhorse to get to the last 25 minutes, when I suspect we’ll see Cane, Ardie, Read.
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Agreed. Cron is a legend, but I haven’t seen any innovation from him with the pack - he’s a scrum expert.
I think we got plenty of ball running from Moody for a while, but he’s gone missing - for that reason, Karl T’s health problems are bad, because when he and Ofa were healthy and fit early in the season, they were awesome together. If we used them together, we could also consider Ta’avao and Moli - perhaps loosing some set piece (although I wonder how much) and gaining a lot more around the field. I can’t see both Saders props (either actually) being dropped though.
I kind of think our front row will be better next year once the change has to be made.
@gt12 Thanks for doing the re-watch on Frizell. Seems like he was pretty solid, if not spectacular - and given the place where we find ourselves in terms of sixes, that's not to be sniffed at. Also a good effort to go nearly 80 minutes in a test on the back of 40 minutes of club rugby.
On Franks, his main contribution might be at the scrum, but from what I can see he's pretty excellent at it. Very rare that he gives away a scrum penalty or goes backwards - whereas at the Crusaders, Crockett, Moody and others give/gave away plenty on the loosehead side. Owen can catch and pass - not sure he can run, I don't recall him charging upfield ball in hand.
I guess a key question is whether the next best tighthead can consistently hold up in the scrum against fresh, elite props. One penalty is worth a lot of prop running metres!
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@Duluth said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@gt12 said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
Yeah, when I watched the presser, I was surprised at how positive he was - once I started watching the replay, I could see why.
I think he deserves a pass mark and nothing more.
I think Hansen's comment was grading him on a sliding scale. We've had so many poor efforts from our starting 6's in the past couple of seasons that someone not shitting the bed is considered worthy of praise
Agreed. I think that if they see Hemopo as a 6, now is the time to try. Either that or commit to Frizell for better or worse as our workhorse to get to the last 25 minutes, when I suspect we’ll see Cane, Ardie, Read.
I doubt it will happen, but I'd like to see Papali'i get a start in the Bledisloe
Brodie's injury meant we had to hold back one forward reserve. So Dalton only got 3 mins at the end. I think he's worth a look.
However I expect him to get cut. Meanwhile people who were tried and failed will get retained.
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Yeah, when I watched the presser, I was surprised at how positive he was - once I started watching the replay, I could see why.
Honestly, he’s still a project and has some rough points (overrunning rucks then not joining through the gate is one dangerous one) but he positions himself to make an impact - he mostly took that midfield set up on defense (rather than Fifita who always looks for a wide spot), and is really active in helping set the defense around the ruck. If they keep playing him and gets a bit more accurate (positioning himself to be a real option as the dummy runner is another point he should work on), then he’ll find it easier to get back to clean (because he won’t be miles past the play when we go to the man behind), and will get more meters.
If they are going to experiment again, I’d put Hemopo in 6 against the wobblies to see if he has the speed to play there, with Frizell on the bench (Pat T to start) with Ardie. That would give plenty of options for some power and speed off the bench.
@gt12 My issue with Frizell is after three years of watching him play, I can't remember ever seeing him make a dominant tackle. Kaino used to put in at least a couple per game.He lacks physicality imo. I really hope they give Paps a start against oz, his workrate is huge and his tackling stats are probably the best in NZ.
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@gt12 My issue with Frizell is after three years of watching him play, I can't remember ever seeing him make a dominant tackle. Kaino used to put in at least a couple per game.He lacks physicality imo. I really hope they give Paps a start against oz, his workrate is huge and his tackling stats are probably the best in NZ.
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Will rewatch the game and look for that hit. Can't recall him making big hits for the Landers tbh, but I will take your word for it. Still think Paps will offer a much higher workrate and is a far superior defender, but is not as good a lineout forward as Frizell.
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I doubt it will happen, but I'd like to see Papali'i get a start in the Bledisloe
Brodie's injury meant we had to hold back one forward reserve. So Dalton only got 3 mins at the end. I think he's worth a look.
However I expect him to get cut. Meanwhile people who were tried and failed will get retained.
@Duluth said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
I doubt it will happen, but I'd like to see Papali'i get a start in the Bledisloe
Brodie's injury meant we had to hold back one forward reserve. So Dalton only got 3 mins at the end. I think he's worth a look.
However I expect him to get cut. Meanwhile people who were tried and failed will get retained.
Just say his name! :grinning_face:
If Hansen and co are still undecided on who their no.6 is then they should retain all of them and give them a chance to perform or fail in the Aust tests. I'm also resigned to the fact that both Papalii and Jacobson will be cut. There is nothing to be gained to include Todd in the 35 if Cane and Ardie are both going to be in the 23. He's a known quantity and the focus should be on the other side of the scrum.
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@gt12 Thanks for doing the re-watch on Frizell. Seems like he was pretty solid, if not spectacular - and given the place where we find ourselves in terms of sixes, that's not to be sniffed at. Also a good effort to go nearly 80 minutes in a test on the back of 40 minutes of club rugby.
On Franks, his main contribution might be at the scrum, but from what I can see he's pretty excellent at it. Very rare that he gives away a scrum penalty or goes backwards - whereas at the Crusaders, Crockett, Moody and others give/gave away plenty on the loosehead side. Owen can catch and pass - not sure he can run, I don't recall him charging upfield ball in hand.
I guess a key question is whether the next best tighthead can consistently hold up in the scrum against fresh, elite props. One penalty is worth a lot of prop running metres!
@Chris-B
That’s exactly the question. Laulala is really a similar set piece specialist but often gets the bench (Argentina is a good example), where can’t really make much impact. Also I understand why they put Ofa at LH in Argentina, but he might be our second best tighthead. I’d have liked to see him get a chance, because Ta’avao off the bench at TH looks the ticket. I guess right now they are planning for no Karl T which means Ofa and Angus off the bench.. which again, is why Karl’s injury is a shame.
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@Chris-B
That’s exactly the question. Laulala is really a similar set piece specialist but often gets the bench (Argentina is a good example), where can’t really make much impact. Also I understand why they put Ofa at LH in Argentina, but he might be our second best tighthead. I’d have liked to see him get a chance, because Ta’avao off the bench at TH looks the ticket. I guess right now they are planning for no Karl T which means Ofa and Angus off the bench.. which again, is why Karl’s injury is a shame.
@gt12 said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Chris-B
That’s exactly the question. Laulala is really a similar set piece specialist but often gets the bench (Argentina is a good example), where can’t really make much impact. Also I understand why they put Ofa at LH in Argentina, but he might be our second best tighthead. I’d have liked to see him get a chance, because Ta’avao off the bench at TH looks the ticket. I guess right now they are planning for no Karl T which means Ofa and Angus off the bench.. which again, is why Karl’s injury is a shame.
How are these other guys as scrummagers compared to Franks who is still arguably the worlds best in this facet along with that Irish fella.
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Will rewatch the game and look for that hit. Can't recall him making big hits for the Landers tbh, but I will take your word for it. Still think Paps will offer a much higher workrate and is a far superior defender, but is not as good a lineout forward as Frizell.
@akan004 said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
Will rewatch the game and look for that hit. Can't recall him making big hits for the Landers tbh, but I will take your word for it. Still think Paps will offer a much higher workrate and is a far superior defender, but is not as good a lineout forward as Frizell.
I kind of agree - Paps is class, but they haven’t given him any chances. Check 2:15-2:20 after we kick off. He stops Vermeulen pretty well.
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@gt12 Thanks for doing the re-watch on Frizell. Seems like he was pretty solid, if not spectacular - and given the place where we find ourselves in terms of sixes, that's not to be sniffed at. Also a good effort to go nearly 80 minutes in a test on the back of 40 minutes of club rugby.
On Franks, his main contribution might be at the scrum, but from what I can see he's pretty excellent at it. Very rare that he gives away a scrum penalty or goes backwards - whereas at the Crusaders, Crockett, Moody and others give/gave away plenty on the loosehead side. Owen can catch and pass - not sure he can run, I don't recall him charging upfield ball in hand.
I guess a key question is whether the next best tighthead can consistently hold up in the scrum against fresh, elite props. One penalty is worth a lot of prop running metres!
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@Chris-B
A long time ago, Owen Franks used to specialize in making monstrous hits on other forwards where he would drive upwards and hit them just below the shoulders.. It was quite impressive. Not sure where that has gone.@Frank said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Chris-B
A long time ago, Owen Franks used to specialize in making monstrous hits on other forwards where he would drive upwards and hit them just below the shoulders.. It was quite impressive. Not sure where that has gone. -
@Chris-B
A long time ago, Owen Franks used to specialize in making monstrous hits on other forwards where he would drive upwards and hit them just below the shoulders.. It was quite impressive. Not sure where that has gone.@Frank said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Chris-B
A long time ago, Owen Franks used to specialize in making monstrous hits on other forwards where he would drive upwards and hit them just below the shoulders.. It was quite impressive. Not sure where that has gone.Probably too risky for getting a high tackle nowadays
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@Frank said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Chris-B
A long time ago, Owen Franks used to specialize in making monstrous hits on other forwards where he would drive upwards and hit them just below the shoulders.. It was quite impressive. Not sure where that has gone.Probably too risky for getting a high tackle nowadays
@Machpants
the most important part is hit em in the head! they go down reeeeeal easy. Just wrap your arms tho! -
@Chris-B
A long time ago, Owen Franks used to specialize in making monstrous hits on other forwards where he would drive upwards and hit them just below the shoulders.. It was quite impressive. Not sure where that has gone.@Frank MN5's post might be the answer to that.
The Franks boys used to be renowned for their work at the ruck - TBH I don't really watch much of what happens away from the ball so I can't tell you whether he's still a menace there.
I'd back Owen to be more useful in a driving maul than Ofa.
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Again? That didn’t take long! Maybe next time he should support Barcelona.
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@Tim Would be helpful if just one person in that article came up with a suggestion.
