RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B)
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Inclined to agree with both of you.
Although all of this "See you in the final" stuff is rather silly. If things go as they are scheduled to, we first have to get past Scotland (funnier things have happened in World Cups) & then we'll have to beat an Eddie Jones coached England in the semi. That man is a world cup mastermind, and that game will be almost impossible to call.
SA are due to face the Irish in the QF. At this point in time ,I'd say the chances of an SA NZ final are < 10%.
@MajorRage firstly, my fellow Jarpie fans need to quit the bloody whinging. As I’ve said before, good teams embrace and overcome the vagaries of the weather, bounce of the odd shaped ball and French refs.
Secondly, the boks didn’t stress areas where there was lots of space and they have the upper hand. I was losing it because we didn’t drive round the ruck or run off nine or Pollard’s shoulder.
Third, the biggest difference between the sides was the loosies. Ardie and Cane and to a lesser extent, Read, simply outplayed their opposites. I haven’t managed to watch the footage but live I hardly noticed Kolisi.
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@MajorRage firstly, my fellow Jarpie fans need to quit the bloody whinging. As I’ve said before, good teams embrace and overcome the vagaries of the weather, bounce of the odd shaped ball and French refs.
Secondly, the boks didn’t stress areas where there was lots of space and they have the upper hand. I was losing it because we didn’t drive round the ruck or run off nine or Pollard’s shoulder.
Third, the biggest difference between the sides was the loosies. Ardie and Cane and to a lesser extent, Read, simply outplayed their opposites. I haven’t managed to watch the footage but live I hardly noticed Kolisi.
@Smuts said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
@MajorRage firstly, my fellow Jarpie fans need to quit the bloody whinging. As I’ve said before, good teams embrace and overcome the vagaries of the weather, bounce of the odd shaped ball and French refs.
Secondly, the boks didn’t stress areas where there was lots of space and they have the upper hand. I was losing it because we didn’t drive round the ruck or run off nine or Pollard’s shoulder.
Third, the biggest difference between the sides was the loosies. Ardie and Cane and to a lesser extent, Read, simply outplayed their opposites. I haven’t managed to watch the footage but live I hardly noticed Kolisi.
So...fine, dry particles, devoid of moisture?
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@Smuts said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
@MajorRage firstly, my fellow Jarpie fans need to quit the bloody whinging. As I’ve said before, good teams embrace and overcome the vagaries of the weather, bounce of the odd shaped ball and French refs.
Secondly, the boks didn’t stress areas where there was lots of space and they have the upper hand. I was losing it because we didn’t drive round the ruck or run off nine or Pollard’s shoulder.
Third, the biggest difference between the sides was the loosies. Ardie and Cane and to a lesser extent, Read, simply outplayed their opposites. I haven’t managed to watch the footage but live I hardly noticed Kolisi.
So...fine, dry particles, devoid of moisture?
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@Smuts said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
@Bones nothing a solemn understanding sealed with blood shouldn’t be able to overcome...
When in Rome!
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Finally watched it. I'm less confident now than when I actually only knew the result. I actually think the South Africans have been the better side. I think their forwards beat us, and they created more on attack. We had 7 good minutes and fuck all else.
Great tries though, both rippers created from fuck all. But for the rest of the game the ABs couldn't do much against that outside in defense.
The South Africans should take the lesson that they look better with a bit of width on the game, and feed their outsides.
I need to say, for all I call the Irish boring, 33 minutes of the first half was turgid trench warfare rugby of the worst kind. The opening of the 2nd half where the saffers cut us up was the best bit of the whole game.
Still, the ability to settle and kill the game was a pretty good positive.
@mariner4life said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
Finally watched it. I'm less confident now than when I actually only knew the result. I actually think the South Africans have been the better side. I think their forwards beat us, and they created more on attack. We had 7 good minutes and fuck all else.
Great tries though, both rippers created from fuck all. But for the rest of the game the ABs couldn't do much against that outside in defense.
The South Africans should take the lesson that they look better with a bit of width on the game, and feed their outsides.
I need to say, for all I call the Irish boring, 33 minutes of the first half was turgid trench warfare rugby of the worst kind. The opening of the 2nd half where the saffers cut us up was the best bit of the whole game.
Still, the ability to settle and kill the game was a pretty good positive.
I think that game means little should we play them again, its a new game, anything can happen
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@mariner4life said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
Finally watched it. I'm less confident now than when I actually only knew the result. I actually think the South Africans have been the better side. I think their forwards beat us, and they created more on attack. We had 7 good minutes and fuck all else.
Great tries though, both rippers created from fuck all. But for the rest of the game the ABs couldn't do much against that outside in defense.
The South Africans should take the lesson that they look better with a bit of width on the game, and feed their outsides.
I need to say, for all I call the Irish boring, 33 minutes of the first half was turgid trench warfare rugby of the worst kind. The opening of the 2nd half where the saffers cut us up was the best bit of the whole game.
Still, the ability to settle and kill the game was a pretty good positive.
I think that game means little should we play them again, its a new game, anything can happen
@kiwiinmelb said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
I think that game means little should we play them again, its a new game, anything can happen
A lot of those concerns can be answered by the return of Brodie.
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Finally watched it. I'm less confident now than when I actually only knew the result. I actually think the South Africans have been the better side. I think their forwards beat us, and they created more on attack. We had 7 good minutes and fuck all else.
Great tries though, both rippers created from fuck all. But for the rest of the game the ABs couldn't do much against that outside in defense.
The South Africans should take the lesson that they look better with a bit of width on the game, and feed their outsides.
I need to say, for all I call the Irish boring, 33 minutes of the first half was turgid trench warfare rugby of the worst kind. The opening of the 2nd half where the saffers cut us up was the best bit of the whole game.
Still, the ability to settle and kill the game was a pretty good positive.
@mariner4life said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
Finally watched it. I'm less confident now than when I actually only knew the result. I actually think the South Africans have been the better side. I think their forwards beat us, and they created more on attack. We had 7 good minutes and fuck all else.
This is how they play though - same thing in the semi in 2015. Their forwards beat us up all game with power running, but we held them out. It looked awesome, but if you don't generate fast ball, wear down defenders or suck in a heap of players it doesn't achieve much.
Same thing again in Wellington the first half this year (or maybe last year???) - they batter us physically, we get two sniffs and score two tries. Damn near win the game as a result.
We knew what they were going to bring, stood up to it well, and kept enough energy to get to teh end of the game still firing.
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@mariner4life said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
Finally watched it. I'm less confident now than when I actually only knew the result. I actually think the South Africans have been the better side. I think their forwards beat us, and they created more on attack. We had 7 good minutes and fuck all else.
This is how they play though - same thing in the semi in 2015. Their forwards beat us up all game with power running, but we held them out. It looked awesome, but if you don't generate fast ball, wear down defenders or suck in a heap of players it doesn't achieve much.
Same thing again in Wellington the first half this year (or maybe last year???) - they batter us physically, we get two sniffs and score two tries. Damn near win the game as a result.
We knew what they were going to bring, stood up to it well, and kept enough energy to get to teh end of the game still firing.
@nzzp said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
@mariner4life said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
Finally watched it. I'm less confident now than when I actually only knew the result. I actually think the South Africans have been the better side. I think their forwards beat us, and they created more on attack. We had 7 good minutes and fuck all else.
This is how they play though - same thing in the semi in 2015. Their forwards beat us up all game with power running, but we held them out. It looked awesome, but if you don't generate fast ball, wear down defenders or suck in a heap of players it doesn't achieve much.
Same thing again in Wellington the first half this year (or maybe last year???) - they batter us physically, we get two sniffs and score two tries. Damn near win the game as a result.
We knew what they were going to bring, stood up to it well, and kept enough energy to get to teh end of the game still firing.
I honestly don’t know why anybody is the least bit surprised by the way this played out. As long as I’ve been watching tests the Boks have always brought a game that was more brute strength than finesse. That’s not to say they didn’t have skill, because they did, but that wasn’t their USP. That was being massive units who sought to dominate the opposition, so in my head the Boks have always been like this and played that way. So I had to laugh at their showing off their size and physiques as if it was a new strategy because it’s actually a reversion to type. But hey why not, it was bloody successful for most of their history.
Anyway the ABs in the past found ways to counter a much more physical SA pack and they’ll handle it again, I’m sure. If the Boks keeping picking men in the centres who are the size of wardrobes and change direction like it, that makes the job that little bit easier.
I’m much more worried about Ireland, frankly.
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@mariner4life said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
Finally watched it. I'm less confident now than when I actually only knew the result. I actually think the South Africans have been the better side. I think their forwards beat us, and they created more on attack. We had 7 good minutes and fuck all else.
This is how they play though - same thing in the semi in 2015. Their forwards beat us up all game with power running, but we held them out. It looked awesome, but if you don't generate fast ball, wear down defenders or suck in a heap of players it doesn't achieve much.
Same thing again in Wellington the first half this year (or maybe last year???) - they batter us physically, we get two sniffs and score two tries. Damn near win the game as a result.
We knew what they were going to bring, stood up to it well, and kept enough energy to get to teh end of the game still firing.
@nzzp said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
@mariner4life said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
Finally watched it. I'm less confident now than when I actually only knew the result. I actually think the South Africans have been the better side. I think their forwards beat us, and they created more on attack. We had 7 good minutes and fuck all else.
This is how they play though - same thing in the semi in 2015. Their forwards beat us up all game with power running, but we held them out. It looked awesome, but if you don't generate fast ball, wear down defenders or suck in a heap of players it doesn't achieve much.
Same thing again in Wellington the first half this year (or maybe last year???) - they batter us physically, we get two sniffs and score two tries. Damn near win the game as a result.
We knew what they were going to bring, stood up to it well, and kept enough energy to get to teh end of the game still firing.
Not only that, in Wellie we should have won it, but for some poor handling and a freakish intercept try at the death. Even then they only managed a draw and were really happy about it. Basically their game plan revolves around waiting for us to screw up
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@MajorRage said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
Inclined to agree with both of you.
Although all of this "See you in the final" stuff is rather silly. If things go as they are scheduled to, we first have to get past Scotland (funnier things have happened in World Cups) & then we'll have to beat an Eddie Jones coached England in the semi. That man is a world cup mastermind, and that game will be almost impossible to call.
SA are due to face the Irish in the QF. At this point in time ,I'd say the chances of an SA NZ final are < 10%.
We are not losing to Scotland. They were diabolical vs Ireland. Just as they have been awful all year. Scotland will do well just to get into a quarter final.
@Billy-Tell said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
@MajorRage said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
Inclined to agree with both of you.
Although all of this "See you in the final" stuff is rather silly. If things go as they are scheduled to, we first have to get past Scotland (funnier things have happened in World Cups) & then we'll have to beat an Eddie Jones coached England in the semi. That man is a world cup mastermind, and that game will be almost impossible to call.
SA are due to face the Irish in the QF. At this point in time ,I'd say the chances of an SA NZ final are < 10%.
We are not losing to Scotland. They were diabolical vs Ireland. Just as they have been awful all year. Scotland will do well just to get into a quarter final.
It could easily be the host nation in the QF. Scotland were abject, to put it very mildly. And their tartan jerseys are a disgrace
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And yet, for all that, arguably the most dangerous player on the park was their winger, and we were one very poor pass to him away from being in trouble.
It's great we won, and there were some good signs, especially on the defensive side, but it wasn't exactly a statement.
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Just a couple of more specific points.
Sam Cane is vital for us. Ardie is the energy, Cane is the muscle. His work on defense is unbelievable, constantly up off the line making solid hits.
Read had a bloody good game. It's not the Read of 4 years ago, but this version is physical as fuck, and constantly applying pressure.
When Retallick is back, which lock does he replace? I am not the biggest fan of Barrett, but he was very visable on Saturday, whereas i am not sure the last time Whitelock had a big game.
What has happened to our defensive lineout?
I'm pretty happy with that wing combo. At least as good as the Africans under the high ball, one is a bit of a spark on attack, the other is a smart footballer with a huge appetite for work. -
I watched a replay of this game last night. One thing I noticed, which wasn't as obvious to me watching the game live, was the dominant tackles from both Tuipulotu and Tu'ungafasi once they came on. Patty T really continued on from Eden Park.
Neither team will be happy with their tackle success (NZ 82% vs SA 76%).
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And yet, for all that, arguably the most dangerous player on the park was their winger, and we were one very poor pass to him away from being in trouble.
It's great we won, and there were some good signs, especially on the defensive side, but it wasn't exactly a statement.
@mariner4life said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
It's great we won, and there were some good signs, especially on the defensive side, but it wasn't exactly a statement.
It was a WIN which in the context of topping a RWC Pool Group is the only statement that matters.
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And yet, for all that, arguably the most dangerous player on the park was their winger, and we were one very poor pass to him away from being in trouble.
It's great we won, and there were some good signs, especially on the defensive side, but it wasn't exactly a statement.
@mariner4life said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
And yet, for all that, arguably the most dangerous player on the park was their winger, and we were one very poor pass to him away from being in trouble.
It's great we won, and there were some good signs, especially on the defensive side, but it wasn't exactly a statement.
That first 20 odd minutes of defence was great rugby and the best part about our game in my opinion. We just held them off when they had all the ball and all the momentum.
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https://www.espn.com/rugby/playerstats?gameId=292891&league=164205
Having a browse of the player stats.
Joe Moody with a good tackling effort - along with Crotty. Beaudy and Nepo need to improve their T/MT proportions.
Beaudy and ALB topping the offensive stats.
Owen Franks will look at the props collective attacking stats and go WTF?!!!
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https://www.espn.com/rugby/playerstats?gameId=292891&league=164205
Having a browse of the player stats.
Joe Moody with a good tackling effort - along with Crotty. Beaudy and Nepo need to improve their T/MT proportions.
Beaudy and ALB topping the offensive stats.
Owen Franks will look at the props collective attacking stats and go WTF?!!!
@Chris-B said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
Owen Franks will look at the props collective attacking stats and go WTF?!!!
Our props were getting up on the saffers super fast, and cutting them down behind the advantage line. That is something mobility contributes to - not just the attacking, but shutting down defenders.
Watching that, I can see why Franks is at home
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@Chris-B said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
Owen Franks will look at the props collective attacking stats and go WTF?!!!
Our props were getting up on the saffers super fast, and cutting them down behind the advantage line. That is something mobility contributes to - not just the attacking, but shutting down defenders.
Watching that, I can see why Franks is at home
@nzzp said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
@Chris-B said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
Owen Franks will look at the props collective attacking stats and go WTF?!!!
Our props were getting up on the saffers super fast, and cutting them down behind the advantage line. That is something mobility contributes to - not just the attacking, but shutting down defenders.
Watching that, I can see why Franks is at home
the big ginger laughs at this statement. jesus he was a handful.
I actually thought there was a notable difference in linespeed. We operate a completely different system, it appears we get up far enough to ensure they don't really make ground, but not so far as to put ourselves under pressure by losing shape. The Africans were out to get as far up as possible to apply pressure to ball handlers and cut off options.
Both systems worked, because both teams were forced in to kicks after repeated slow-ball phases generated fuck all.
