RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B)
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@Chris-B said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
Owen Franks will look at the props collective attacking stats and go WTF?!!!
Our props were getting up on the saffers super fast, and cutting them down behind the advantage line. That is something mobility contributes to - not just the attacking, but shutting down defenders.
Watching that, I can see why Franks is at home
@nzzp said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
@Chris-B said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
Owen Franks will look at the props collective attacking stats and go WTF?!!!
Our props were getting up on the saffers super fast, and cutting them down behind the advantage line. That is something mobility contributes to - not just the attacking, but shutting down defenders.
Watching that, I can see why Franks is at home
the big ginger laughs at this statement. jesus he was a handful.
I actually thought there was a notable difference in linespeed. We operate a completely different system, it appears we get up far enough to ensure they don't really make ground, but not so far as to put ourselves under pressure by losing shape. The Africans were out to get as far up as possible to apply pressure to ball handlers and cut off options.
Both systems worked, because both teams were forced in to kicks after repeated slow-ball phases generated fuck all.
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@mariner4life the big ginger is built like a truck and plays like one too. Fuck coming up against that.
I also agree on Cane, and losing him early to that silly HIA rule was a big deal against SA, we finished the game with three locks really as SB can't cover as much ground as Cane.
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@mariner4life the big ginger is built like a truck and plays like one too. Fuck coming up against that.
I also agree on Cane, and losing him early to that silly HIA rule was a big deal against SA, we finished the game with three locks really as SB can't cover as much ground as Cane.
@No-Quarter yea, i've liked that boy since he first came in to the Stormers. Good player, and hard as fuck, even when he was just a kid. Real old fashioned blood nut.
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And yet, for all that, arguably the most dangerous player on the park was their winger, and we were one very poor pass to him away from being in trouble.
It's great we won, and there were some good signs, especially on the defensive side, but it wasn't exactly a statement.
@mariner4life said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
And yet, for all that, arguably the most dangerous player on the park was their winger, and we were one very poor pass to him away from being in trouble.
It's great we won, and there were some good signs, especially on the defensive side, but it wasn't exactly a statement.
Yep, but by the same token SA were a professional foul to stop a certain try and an offside intercept away from being another 14 points down, so in even more trouble.
Kolbe is some player though. SA really need to make sure they give him the ball in some space, he could be their big point of difference if they meet Ireland in the quarter.
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These are the match stats from the WR site.
https://www.rugbyworldcup.com/match/newzealand-southafrica#stats
Kitshoff made 9 carry metres from 9 runs, more than all the other props combined. Read didn't do much as a ball-carrier compared to Vermeulen. Different tactics.
You can see that we played at the right end of the field to close out the game. Good game management.
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And yet, for all that, arguably the most dangerous player on the park was their winger, and we were one very poor pass to him away from being in trouble.
It's great we won, and there were some good signs, especially on the defensive side, but it wasn't exactly a statement.
@mariner4life said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
And yet, for all that, arguably the most dangerous player on the park was their winger, and we were one very poor pass to him away from being in trouble.
It's great we won, and there were some good signs, especially on the defensive side, but it wasn't exactly a statement.
I'm pretty much with you on this one.
I'm delighted we won, it opens up the best path of all the 8 quarterfinalists to go deep in the tournament.
I do think the best way to play ABs is how SAF played:
- forwards go-forward
- rush defence, attempt to force mistakes behind the advantage line
- contestable box kicking
I think the match was fairly tight and NZ did enough to win, and tbf maybe we could have double the margin more with some luck and different refereeing on Mapimpi and PDST.
But on the other side of the coin. In a 10 point losing margin:
- Faf's box kicking (especially) and other general play was quite poor. That is a huge hurdle in a team playing a style as described above.
- Pollard was quite quiet, and when under pressure and when he got shovelled a bit of confused ball, his contestable kicking was also quite poor.
- Kolbe stretched us out wide
- Pollard missed a sitter by his standards
- SBW charge-down brought back to an offside penalty in midfield agaisnt Louw and Mtwarawira, but if the refs misses that (ref did miss it actually, was a touch judge call) that was a 7 pointer executing exactly the desired strategy.
Happy with the win, but I'd like us to take our destiny more into our own hands as per Lions test one. I'm not comfortable with the punish mistakes strategy as Plan A. Hoping that powder is super-dry and we have more ambition than what we have shown so far.
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@mariner4life said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
And yet, for all that, arguably the most dangerous player on the park was their winger, and we were one very poor pass to him away from being in trouble.
It's great we won, and there were some good signs, especially on the defensive side, but it wasn't exactly a statement.
I'm pretty much with you on this one.
I'm delighted we won, it opens up the best path of all the 8 quarterfinalists to go deep in the tournament.
I do think the best way to play ABs is how SAF played:
- forwards go-forward
- rush defence, attempt to force mistakes behind the advantage line
- contestable box kicking
I think the match was fairly tight and NZ did enough to win, and tbf maybe we could have double the margin more with some luck and different refereeing on Mapimpi and PDST.
But on the other side of the coin. In a 10 point losing margin:
- Faf's box kicking (especially) and other general play was quite poor. That is a huge hurdle in a team playing a style as described above.
- Pollard was quite quiet, and when under pressure and when he got shovelled a bit of confused ball, his contestable kicking was also quite poor.
- Kolbe stretched us out wide
- Pollard missed a sitter by his standards
- SBW charge-down brought back to an offside penalty in midfield agaisnt Louw and Mtwarawira, but if the refs misses that (ref did miss it actually, was a touch judge call) that was a 7 pointer executing exactly the desired strategy.
Happy with the win, but I'd like us to take our destiny more into our own hands as per Lions test one. I'm not comfortable with the punish mistakes strategy as Plan A. Hoping that powder is super-dry and we have more ambition than what we have shown so far.
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IIRC from the match we started with a bigger pack anyway? So where does all of the BIG SA stuff come from?
Almost like a myth (I miss the myth, great player) or even an Aura.
@Snowy said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
IIRC from the match we started with a bigger pack anyway? So where does all of the BIG SA stuff come from?
Almost like a myth (I miss the myth, great player) or even an Aura.
Yeah - according to the commentary - though I'm pretty sceptical that they've put the players on the scales before the game - or even that whoever did the research would pay anywhere near the attention to whether the player weights they google are actually sensible, as some of the people here.
I'm struggling to see where we would get size mismatches (Jaapies have a clear one in PTSD vs Ardie) and a bit of googling suggests to me that the Jaapie's pack was actually bigger.
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fuuuck it would be the ultimate gutsy move to keep a few things back in a game that big.
I did think that 7 minute burst, and the couple of long range tries, allowed us to grind the game down a lot more than if it had been closer on the score board for longer.
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@Snowy said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
IIRC from the match we started with a bigger pack anyway? So where does all of the BIG SA stuff come from?
Almost like a myth (I miss the myth, great player) or even an Aura.
Yeah - according to the commentary - though I'm pretty sceptical that they've put the players on the scales before the game - or even that whoever did the research would pay anywhere near the attention to whether the player weights they google are actually sensible, as some of the people here.
I'm struggling to see where we would get size mismatches (Jaapies have a clear one in PTSD vs Ardie) and a bit of googling suggests to me that the Jaapie's pack was actually bigger.
@Chris-B not according to the onscreen graphic, we had 10kg on thier pack total (905 vs 915 I think it was)
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fuuuck it would be the ultimate gutsy move to keep a few things back in a game that big.
I did think that 7 minute burst, and the couple of long range tries, allowed us to grind the game down a lot more than if it had been closer on the score board for longer.
@mariner4life said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
fuuuck it would be the ultimate gutsy move to keep a few things back in a game that big.
I did think that 7 minute burst, and the couple of long range tries, allowed us to grind the game down a lot more than if it had been closer on the score board for longer.
Shag has form in this regard. If its the final we don't make multiple subs at half time for starters
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@Chris-B not according to the onscreen graphic, we had 10kg on thier pack total (905 vs 915 I think it was)
@taniwharugby Yeah - that's the point I'm making. I don't really believe that graphic. A bit of googling suggests they've got a bigger front row, Etzebeth is the biggest lock and PTSD is significantly heavier than Ardie.
Mostert is light for a lock and Cane doubtless bigger than Kolisi.
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@taniwharugby Yeah - that's the point I'm making. I don't really believe that graphic. A bit of googling suggests they've got a bigger front row, Etzebeth is the biggest lock and PTSD is significantly heavier than Ardie.
Mostert is light for a lock and Cane doubtless bigger than Kolisi.
@Chris-B said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
@taniwharugby Yeah - that's the point I'm making. I don't really believe that graphic. A bit of googling suggests they've got a bigger front row, Etzebeth is the biggest lock and PTSD is significantly heavier than Ardie.
Mostert is light for a lock and Cane doubtless bigger than Kolisi.
Thor at 8 is a fucking unit though.
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@Chris-B And Coles has 3 kg on Marx. You wouldn't think so.
Click on the players from the stats link I posted. It's all there.
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From the conjecture, I think that it safe to say there isn't much in it. A big breakfast could be difference.
So the giant South Africans thing is bullshit, even if we lie about our weight (and Ardie's height) they are comparable.
@Snowy Certainly no Ben Tamiefunas among them. Commentary reckoned he weighs in at 150kgs and apparently it's right.
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@Snowy Certainly no Ben Tamiefunas among them. Commentary reckoned he weighs in at 150kgs and apparently it's right.
@Chris-B said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
@Snowy Certainly no Ben Tamiefunas among them. Commentary reckoned he weighs in at 150kgs and apparently it's right.
Still eclipsed by big bill cavubati
