RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A)
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@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
@MiketheSnow said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
@Billy-Webb said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
@akan004 said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
@antipodean It's their B team though. Wouldn't read too much into this performance.
It's still a crap performance though. Almost matched Scotland against Samoa
I think that's being very harsh on Russia.
I have thoroughly enjoyed their commitment - even if they are lacking a bit in skill and polish.Don't get me wrong. Russia played really well and I think countries like Russia, Canada, Japan etc get a rough deal from the top tier nations - particularly the 6N unions.
Please elucidate
Smaller countries could do with regular games against top tier countries - like SANZAR did with Argentina. Russia are ranked ahead of Canada but have never played England, Scotland or Wales.
And like the 5N did with Italy?
The 6N unions are the nearest and the likes of Romania, Spain, Georgia, Russia, Portugal etc should be competing against 6N teams regularly.
Agreed with a caveat. It is no good tonking Russia or Portugal by 80 odd points in a nothing game. More use should, IMO, be made of the Saxons, Wolfhounds etc in giving exposure to the lower tier nations. Plus there is not a window for the senior sides to be able to do anything meaningful
Nth Hemisphere unions are the wealthiest and yet we get stories of Fiji getting £800 or whatever per player for a game at Twickenham - not to mention problems with Nth Hemisphere clubs release of player players from smaller unions.
That is what their Union pay them. The Fiji Union get an agreed appearance sum from the RFU and then it is up to them what they do with it. Or should the RFU, WRU etc start dictating other Unions how to run their show?
Not a rant against the Nth, but they are in a great position to grow the game in Europe but simply don't seem that interested.
Sadly I have to agree with this.
@Catogrande said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
That is what their Union pay them. The Fiji Union get an agreed appearance sum from the RFU and then it is up to them what they do with it. Or should the RFU, WRU etc start dictating other Unions how to run their show?
There was no appearance money - the RFU refused to give any (IIRC Host unions are under no obligation to pay appearance money)
England made £7-8m from the last, 2016 game, the Fiji Rugby Union got £75k as a "goodwill gesture". after some severe media criticism. The Fiji players got £400 each.
IMO, be made of the Saxons, Wolfhounds etc in giving exposure to the lower tier nations. Plus there is not a window for the senior sides to be able to do anything meaningful.
Definitely. Regular 2nd tier competitions with the winner & runner-up hosting top tier teams. Make a window and ensure it's part of the global calendar
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@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
@MiketheSnow said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
@Billy-Webb said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
@akan004 said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
@antipodean It's their B team though. Wouldn't read too much into this performance.
It's still a crap performance though. Almost matched Scotland against Samoa
I think that's being very harsh on Russia.
I have thoroughly enjoyed their commitment - even if they are lacking a bit in skill and polish.Don't get me wrong. Russia played really well and I think countries like Russia, Canada, Japan etc get a rough deal from the top tier nations - particularly the 6N unions.
Please elucidate
Smaller countries could do with regular games against top tier countries - like SANZAR did with Argentina. Russia are ranked ahead of Canada but have never played England, Scotland or Wales.
The 6N unions are the nearest and the likes of Romania, Spain, Georgia, Russia, Portugal etc should be competing against 6N teams regularly.
Nth Hemisphere unions are the wealthiest and yet we get stories of Fiji getting £800 or whatever per player for a game at Twickenham - not to mention problems with Nth Hemisphere clubs release of player players from smaller unions.
Not a rant against the Nth, but they are in a great position to grow the game in Europe but simply don't seem that interested.
Cato beat me to it but please explain Italy.
Had millions of pounds thrown at them, eaten at the top table for decades, and still very average.
Georgia are about the only European country who could make the leap up as they've declared rugby as their national team sport.
All the other European countries lose most of their better athletes to a myriad of other individual and team sports.
@MiketheSnow said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
Cato beat me to it but please explain Italy.
Had millions of pounds thrown at them, eaten at the top table for decades, and still very average.Not really a reason for not increasing efforts to grow the game. (Nth & Sth)
Italy's 6N record is comparable to Argentina in the RC. No-one would regard the latter as "very average" nowadays. Perhaps the impact of European clubs needs looking at?
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@Catogrande said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
That is what their Union pay them. The Fiji Union get an agreed appearance sum from the RFU and then it is up to them what they do with it. Or should the RFU, WRU etc start dictating other Unions how to run their show?
There was no appearance money - the RFU refused to give any (IIRC Host unions are under no obligation to pay appearance money)
England made £7-8m from the last, 2016 game, the Fiji Rugby Union got £75k as a "goodwill gesture". after some severe media criticism. The Fiji players got £400 each.
IMO, be made of the Saxons, Wolfhounds etc in giving exposure to the lower tier nations. Plus there is not a window for the senior sides to be able to do anything meaningful.
Definitely. Regular 2nd tier competitions with the winner & runner-up hosting top tier teams. Make a window and ensure it's part of the global calendar
@Victor-Meldrew Turnover of £7-8M not profit. A lot of costs running the stadium for an event. Don't get me wrong though, I think the miserly amount paid to Fiji was embarassing for us, as a payment of £400 each for the players should be for Fiji.
But to be honest this is a subject that gets done to death every now and then on the Fern and whilst we all have our on views on where the villainy is - greedy Tier 1unions, corrupt Tier 2 unions, NH V SH, we all end up agreeing that not enough is being done by ANY of the Tier 1 nations to really grow the game internationally. Having said that I do see the club situation in England and France as being a significant speed bump.
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@Victor-Meldrew Turnover of £7-8M not profit. A lot of costs running the stadium for an event. Don't get me wrong though, I think the miserly amount paid to Fiji was embarassing for us, as a payment of £400 each for the players should be for Fiji.
But to be honest this is a subject that gets done to death every now and then on the Fern and whilst we all have our on views on where the villainy is - greedy Tier 1unions, corrupt Tier 2 unions, NH V SH, we all end up agreeing that not enough is being done by ANY of the Tier 1 nations to really grow the game internationally. Having said that I do see the club situation in England and France as being a significant speed bump.
No apportioning blame. Just saying there's now a very big opportunity being missed with Japan & Georgia currently growing in stature. They'll atrophy otherwise.
Think SANZAR have thought it thru better than 6N - don't think it's conincidence Japan and Argentina have improved since Sunwolves and Jaguares in S15
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No apportioning blame. Just saying there's now a very big opportunity being missed with Japan & Georgia currently growing in stature. They'll atrophy otherwise.
Think SANZAR have thought it thru better than 6N - don't think it's conincidence Japan and Argentina have improved since Sunwolves and Jaguares in S15
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
No apportioning blame. Just saying there's now a very big opportunity being missed with Japan & Georgia currently growing in stature. They'll atrophy otherwise.
Think SANZAR have thought it thru better than 6N - don't think it's conincidence Japan and Argentina have improved since Sunwolves and Jaguares in S15
SANZAR is not a charity.
It was a commercial decision to introduce Japan and Argentina.
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No apportioning blame. Just saying there's now a very big opportunity being missed with Japan & Georgia currently growing in stature. They'll atrophy otherwise.
Think SANZAR have thought it thru better than 6N - don't think it's conincidence Japan and Argentina have improved since Sunwolves and Jaguares in S15
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@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
No apportioning blame. Just saying there's now a very big opportunity being missed with Japan & Georgia currently growing in stature. They'll atrophy otherwise.
Think SANZAR have thought it thru better than 6N - don't think it's conincidence Japan and Argentina have improved since Sunwolves and Jaguares in S15
SANZAR is not a charity.
It was a commercial decision to introduce Japan and Argentina.
@MiketheSnow said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
It was a commercial decision to introduce Japan and Argentina.
Yep. Maybe proves it makes good commercial sense to expand the game.
Grow the game, grow the money.
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@Victor-Meldrew pretty bold statement on Argentina. Have you seen the world rankings prior to 2012?
@Bones said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
@Victor-Meldrew pretty bold statement on Argentina. Have you seen the world rankings prior to 2012?
They made the RWC QF's in '99 & '11 and 3rd place in '07. They've always been around 6 to 8 in the IRB rankings, I think.
IIRC they had regular games against Sth Africa, NZ, Oz and other Tier 1 teams from around the early '90's. Poss. a coincidence that coincided with their growth?
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@Bones said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
@Victor-Meldrew pretty bold statement on Argentina. Have you seen the world rankings prior to 2012?
They made the RWC QF's in '99 & '11 and 3rd place in '07. They've always been around 6 to 8 in the IRB rankings, I think.
IIRC they had regular games against Sth Africa, NZ, Oz and other Tier 1 teams from around the early '90's. Poss. a coincidence that coincided with their growth?
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
@Bones said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
@Victor-Meldrew pretty bold statement on Argentina. Have you seen the world rankings prior to 2012?
They made the RWC QF's in '99 & '11 and 3rd place in '07. They've always been around 6 to 8 in the IRB rankings, I think.
IIRC they had regular games against Sth Africa, NZ, Oz and other Tier 1 teams from around the early '90's. Poss. a coincidence that coincided with their growth?
Quite possibly - but that doesn't line up with you pointing out their improvement since 2015 (Jags joined Soup). If you meant RC that was 2012. If anything their world rankings seem to have suffered...
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@MiketheSnow said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
It was a commercial decision to introduce Japan and Argentina.
Yep. Maybe proves it makes good commercial sense to expand the game.
Grow the game, grow the money.
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
@MiketheSnow said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
It was a commercial decision to introduce Japan and Argentina.
Yep. Maybe proves it makes good commercial sense to expand the game.
Grow the game, grow the money.
Possibly for the SH
Going from 3 teams to 4 (Championship) is quite easy. And logistically makes sense.
Would love to see Georgia, Russia, Romania in the 8/9N
But the clubs pay most of everyone's wages and they can't afford for the players to be away for so long.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
@MiketheSnow said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
It was a commercial decision to introduce Japan and Argentina.
Yep. Maybe proves it makes good commercial sense to expand the game.
Grow the game, grow the money.
Possibly for the SH
Going from 3 teams to 4 (Championship) is quite easy. And logistically makes sense.
Would love to see Georgia, Russia, Romania in the 8/9N
But the clubs pay most of everyone's wages and they can't afford for the players to be away for so long.
@MiketheSnow Excuse me! This is rugby not soccer. The word you’re looking for is “salaries”.
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@MiketheSnow Excuse me! This is rugby not soccer. The word you’re looking for is “salaries”.
@Catogrande said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
@MiketheSnow Excuse me! This is rugby not soccer. The word you’re looking for is “salaries”.
:face_with_hand_over_mouth: :face_with_tears_of_joy: -
Shit game. Ringrose try at the end the only one worth looking at.
Next up Samoa. Should be interesting to see what Schmidt now has to do with his injury stocks:
Conan - foot - gone home - Stander now the only experienced 8
Murphy - possibly busted a rib, after just flying out as a replacement. Waiting on results of a scan. Either O'Donnell or possibly, Dev Toner to replace him if it's required. Decision in next 24 hours. Murphy the next best experienced at 8.
Carbery - injured his ankle - again!! Must be his kiwi jeans.
Farrell - concussion - going through HIA processes - so Aki and Ringrose the only centres available currently - Ringrose having to play 4th match in a row.
Henshaw - still no update on his injury. Why is even there?
Sexton - thigh/groin strain - needed ice pack after he was subbed against Russia at HT.
Kearney - another concussion possibly to go with his shiner.Likely 23 for Samoa:
Larmour/Conway, Earls, Ringrose, Aki, Stockdale, Sexton, Murray
Kilcoyne, Best, Porter, Ryan, Henderson, Beirne, vdF, Ruddock/Stander
Reps: Scannell, Healy, Furlong, Kleyn, Stander/Ruddock, Carbery, Carty, Larmour/ConwayIt's looking like another car crash tournament for Schmidt.
Meanwhile, I'll enjoy watching Ross Byrne run out - injury free - tonight as Leinster get their first home game underway for the season.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
@Bones said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
@Victor-Meldrew pretty bold statement on Argentina. Have you seen the world rankings prior to 2012?
They made the RWC QF's in '99 & '11 and 3rd place in '07. They've always been around 6 to 8 in the IRB rankings, I think.
IIRC they had regular games against Sth Africa, NZ, Oz and other Tier 1 teams from around the early '90's. Poss. a coincidence that coincided with their growth?
Quite possibly - but that doesn't line up with you pointing out their improvement since 2015 (Jags joined Soup). If you meant RC that was 2012. If anything their world rankings seem to have suffered...
@Bones said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
Quite possibly - but that doesn't line up with you pointing out their improvement since 2015 (Jags joined Soup).
Currently on glass no. 3 of a 2003 Chateau Musar and don't want a long-winded thread...but they seem a lot more competitive since being exposed to regular competition in TRC and S15
And I don't view the IRB rankings as the ultimate arbiter of quality. I'd pick SA (5th) over Wales (2nd) any day - much as Wales is probably my no.2 team
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@Bones said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
Quite possibly - but that doesn't line up with you pointing out their improvement since 2015 (Jags joined Soup).
Currently on glass no. 3 of a 2003 Chateau Musar and don't want a long-winded thread...but they seem a lot more competitive since being exposed to regular competition in TRC and S15
And I don't view the IRB rankings as the ultimate arbiter of quality. I'd pick SA (5th) over Wales (2nd) any day - much as Wales is probably my no.2 team
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
@Bones said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
Quite possibly - but that doesn't line up with you pointing out their improvement since 2015 (Jags joined Soup).
Currently on glass no. 3 of a 2003 Chateau Musar and don't want a long-winded thread...but they seem a lot more competitive since being exposed to regular competition in TRC and S15
And I don't view the IRB rankings as the ultimate arbiter of quality. I'd pick SA (5th) over Wales (2nd) any day - much as Wales is probably my no.2 team
Nice choice. Was 2003 the one with a hint of shrapnel?
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@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
@MiketheSnow said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
It was a commercial decision to introduce Japan and Argentina.
Yep. Maybe proves it makes good commercial sense to expand the game.
Grow the game, grow the money.
Possibly for the SH
Going from 3 teams to 4 (Championship) is quite easy. And logistically makes sense.
Would love to see Georgia, Russia, Romania in the 8/9N
But the clubs pay most of everyone's wages and they can't afford for the players to be away for so long.
@MiketheSnow said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
Going from 3 teams to 4 (Championship) is quite easy. And logistically makes sense.
It was actually logistically more sensible for Argentina to make a 7N when you look at travel times and where the Argentina players were based.
Would love to see Georgia, Russia, Romania in the 8/9N
Ditto Japan in a 5 country RC. I sense the chances of that being somewhat higher
But the clubs pay most of everyone's wages and they can't afford for the players to be away for so long.
Yep. The ultimate global rugby issue, Grow the clubs or grow the game.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
@Bones said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
Quite possibly - but that doesn't line up with you pointing out their improvement since 2015 (Jags joined Soup).
Currently on glass no. 3 of a 2003 Chateau Musar and don't want a long-winded thread...but they seem a lot more competitive since being exposed to regular competition in TRC and S15
And I don't view the IRB rankings as the ultimate arbiter of quality. I'd pick SA (5th) over Wales (2nd) any day - much as Wales is probably my no.2 team
Nice choice. Was 2003 the one with a hint of shrapnel?
@Catogrande said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
@Bones said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
Quite possibly - but that doesn't line up with you pointing out their improvement since 2015 (Jags joined Soup).
Currently on glass no. 3 of a 2003 Chateau Musar and don't want a long-winded thread...but they seem a lot more competitive since being exposed to regular competition in TRC and S15
And I don't view the IRB rankings as the ultimate arbiter of quality. I'd pick SA (5th) over Wales (2nd) any day - much as Wales is probably my no.2 team
Nice choice. Was 2003 the one with a hint of shrapnel?
They actually stopped hostilities in the Bekka Valley so the Hochar clan could harvest the grapes.
Probbly the best value wine around today.
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@Catogrande said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
@Bones said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
Quite possibly - but that doesn't line up with you pointing out their improvement since 2015 (Jags joined Soup).
Currently on glass no. 3 of a 2003 Chateau Musar and don't want a long-winded thread...but they seem a lot more competitive since being exposed to regular competition in TRC and S15
And I don't view the IRB rankings as the ultimate arbiter of quality. I'd pick SA (5th) over Wales (2nd) any day - much as Wales is probably my no.2 team
Nice choice. Was 2003 the one with a hint of shrapnel?
They actually stopped hostilities in the Bekka Valley so the Hochar clan could harvest the grapes.
Probbly the best value wine around today.
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
@Catogrande said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
@Bones said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
Quite possibly - but that doesn't line up with you pointing out their improvement since 2015 (Jags joined Soup).
Currently on glass no. 3 of a 2003 Chateau Musar and don't want a long-winded thread...but they seem a lot more competitive since being exposed to regular competition in TRC and S15
And I don't view the IRB rankings as the ultimate arbiter of quality. I'd pick SA (5th) over Wales (2nd) any day - much as Wales is probably my no.2 team
Nice choice. Was 2003 the one with a hint of shrapnel?
They actually stopped hostilities in the Bekka Valley so the Hochar clan could harvest the grapes.
Probbly the best value wine around today.
Fantastic drop
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@Catogrande said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
@Bones said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
Quite possibly - but that doesn't line up with you pointing out their improvement since 2015 (Jags joined Soup).
Currently on glass no. 3 of a 2003 Chateau Musar and don't want a long-winded thread...but they seem a lot more competitive since being exposed to regular competition in TRC and S15
And I don't view the IRB rankings as the ultimate arbiter of quality. I'd pick SA (5th) over Wales (2nd) any day - much as Wales is probably my no.2 team
Nice choice. Was 2003 the one with a hint of shrapnel?
They actually stopped hostilities in the Bekka Valley so the Hochar clan could harvest the grapes.
Probbly the best value wine around today.
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: Ireland v Russia (Pool A):
They actually stopped hostilities in the Bekka Valley so the Hochar clan could harvest the grapes.
That is so - well - civilised.
"Would you please stop shooting at them? This is going to be a great vintage! Idiots"
"O.K. they seem to be done, ready, aim..."
