RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C)
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You will never convince me that the current obsession with handing out red cards is a good thing.
They have shifted their interpretation of dangerous play, and how it should be dealt with, a long way from where it used to be. But they haven’t changed the card system. It is no longer fit for purpose.
Add in the inconsistency they are applying it with and it is a complete fucking mess.Straight red cards should be reserved for the worst of the worst. ie. biting, kicking, eye gouging, punching, stomping on a head and deliberate or extremely dangerous foul play eg. A stiff arm to the head.
Tackles that are part of the game but have just been poorly executed in the heat of the game should be dealt with differently. There is absolutely no reason another tier of card allowing for a replacement player after 10min and harsher suspensions wouldn’t work.
Or hey you could even start by not reducing every single ban by 50% because someone dressed nicely for the hearing.I would be very interested in seeing the stats for how often a team has gone on to win after copping a red card before 60 mins. It is so often a death sentence for the contest.
By the way, im not commenting on the red card in this game. Im not watching it because i refused to pay money to watch a RWC which was so clearly going to be tainted by bullshit cards and inconsistent application of the laws.
@pukunui Agree totally. Red cards should be reserved for deliberate foul play. But too often now, we’re seeing them handed out indiscriminately over inches-level judgements pertaining to high tackles. It’s buggered the game. It’s destroyed the spectacle. It’s left the public watching with their hearts in their throats worrying about the height of every tackle instead of appreciating the play in itself.
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@booboo Well it is predetermined if a random decision of a referee decides the game. If you want sport for its own sake go to the ground on a Saturday and watch the amateurs.
@MrDenmore said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):
@booboo Well it is predetermined if a random decision of a referee decides the game. If you want sport for its own sake go to the ground on a Saturday and watch the amateurs.
Firstly, you've edited your post.
Secondly, neither Owens nor World Rugby predetermined the foul play by Lavinini.
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@MrDenmore said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):
@booboo Well it is predetermined if a random decision of a referee decides the game. If you want sport for its own sake go to the ground on a Saturday and watch the amateurs.
Yeah. Never watched amateurs and expected them to play within the laws ... or even played amateur footy (or St Peters under 15) and played within the laws.
At this level you expect the elite level athletes to know the laws and play within them.
Sorry to disavow you of your perceptions...
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@booboo You’re naive mate. Athletes at this level will do what rewards them most. It’s about bucks.
@MrDenmore said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):
@booboo You’re naive mate. Athletes at this level will do what rewards them most. It’s about bucks.
All the more reason to enforce the laws that define the game and keep the players safe
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@MrDenmore said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):
@booboo You’re naive mate. Athletes at this level will do what rewards them most. It’s about bucks.
All the more reason to enforce the laws that define the game and keep the players safe
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@MrDenmore said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):
@booboo You’re naive mate. Athletes at this level will do what rewards them most. It’s about bucks.
All the more reason to enforce the laws that define the game and keep the players safe
@booboo said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):
@MrDenmore said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):
@booboo You’re naive mate. Athletes at this level will do what rewards them most. It’s about bucks.
All the more reason to enforce the laws that define the game and keep the players safe
Do the current laws really keep the players safe though? Does world rugby think all these red cards are an anomaly as surely no player would ever make a high tackle knowing it costs their team the game?
There will always be high tackles, it's just the way of the game, yes there should be penalties put in place and suspensions but having so many games ruined is not the way forward. -
@booboo said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):
@MrDenmore said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):
@booboo You’re naive mate. Athletes at this level will do what rewards them most. It’s about bucks.
All the more reason to enforce the laws that define the game and keep the players safe
Do the current laws really keep the players safe though? Does world rugby think all these red cards are an anomaly as surely no player would ever make a high tackle knowing it costs their team the game?
There will always be high tackles, it's just the way of the game, yes there should be penalties put in place and suspensions but having so many games ruined is not the way forward. -
Going back 4 years: tip tackles and Sam Warburton.
Rarely seen nowadays.
Let's hope high tackles go the same way.
@NTA said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):
Going back 4 years: tip tackles and Sam Warburton.
Rarely seen nowadays.
Let's hope high tackles go the same way.
Did you see the Italian game? I agree with you but do wonder if stopping tip tackles is easier than stopping the high tackle. I guess time will tell.
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@NTA said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):
Going back 4 years: tip tackles and Sam Warburton.
Rarely seen nowadays.
Let's hope high tackles go the same way.
Did you see the Italian game? I agree with you but do wonder if stopping tip tackles is easier than stopping the high tackle. I guess time will tell.
@chimoaus said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):
@NTA said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):
Going back 4 years: tip tackles and Sam Warburton.
Rarely seen nowadays.
Let's hope high tackles go the same way.
Did you see the Italian game? I agree with you but do wonder if stopping tip tackles is easier than stopping the high tackle. I guess time will tell.
I agree. Tip tackles were relatively easy to address. High shots less so but they will need to be addressed in some way
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Going back 4 years: tip tackles and Sam Warburton.
Rarely seen nowadays.
Let's hope high tackles go the same way.
@NTA said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):
Going back 4 years: tip tackles and Sam Warburton.
Rarely seen nowadays.
Let's hope high tackles go the same way.
I think the difference is that tip tackles is a technique that has no place in the game, much like (most) shoulder charges - fairly easy to identify and ideally eradicate. A high tackle though can be pretty subjective and has lots of elements, attacking players ducking, timing, slippage etc.
I think we all want truly high tackles out of the game, but I do think there is a grey area on this one
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@chimoaus said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):
@NTA said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):
Going back 4 years: tip tackles and Sam Warburton.
Rarely seen nowadays.
Let's hope high tackles go the same way.
Did you see the Italian game? I agree with you but do wonder if stopping tip tackles is easier than stopping the high tackle. I guess time will tell.
I agree. Tip tackles were relatively easy to address. High shots less so but they will need to be addressed in some way
@NTA said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):
@chimoaus said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):
@NTA said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):
Going back 4 years: tip tackles and Sam Warburton.
Rarely seen nowadays.
Let's hope high tackles go the same way.
Did you see the Italian game? I agree with you but do wonder if stopping tip tackles is easier than stopping the high tackle. I guess time will tell.
I agree. Tip tackles were relatively easy to address. High shots less so but they will need to be addressed in some way
Yeah I agree, even the Oz game there were numerous high tackles. I just think players are under so much pressure to be dominant and to rush up that a simple misjudgement at speed costs them dearly. It really is a tricky situation.
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@chimoaus Exactly. It’s about protecting the World Rugby board safe from litigation. It makes me laugh when I read all these naive idiots thinking it’s about player welfare.
@MrDenmore said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):
@chimoaus Exactly. It’s about protecting the World Rugby board safe from litigation. It makes me laugh when I read all these naive idiots thinking it’s about player welfare.
When you have to resort to calling someone who opposes your argument a naive idiot you've lost the argument.
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Bit of a dud game in the end.
Argentina have sadly regressed since 2015 rather than kicking on.
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@Billy-Tell
Some of the guys who were so good for the Jaguares in the Super season now look knackered and in need of the off-season.@sparky said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):
@Billy-Tell
Some of the guys who were so good for the Jaguares in the Super season now look knackered and in need of the off-season.Definitely.
And there was a French no fucks given attitude for lots of the match unfortunately.
They scored the best try of the match, could have had more.
Interestingly the Japanese Sunwolves players look as fresh as daises
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England had to win five successive hard fought games to win the RWC. Actually, it's only four. They played slowly and saved their energy all game long. The issue was never in doubt. Let's hope France give them a real test. An England loss would be great for the All Blacks.
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Just watching the highlights on ITV4
Red card incident seen from more angles than a dodecahedron.
English charge down which should have been a YC at least?
What English charge down? No mention of it.
Or Tuilagi hitting the man in the air.
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England had to win five successive hard fought games to win the RWC. Actually, it's only four. They played slowly and saved their energy all game long. The issue was never in doubt. Let's hope France give them a real test. An England loss would be great for the All Blacks.
@cgrant said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):
England had to win five successive hard fought games to win the RWC. Actually, it's only four. They played slowly and saved their energy all game long. The issue was never in doubt. Let's hope France give them a real test. An England loss would be great for the All Blacks.
Billy hurt.
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Just watching the highlights on ITV4
Red card incident seen from more angles than a dodecahedron.
English charge down which should have been a YC at least?
What English charge down? No mention of it.
Or Tuilagi hitting the man in the air.
@MiketheSnow said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):
Just watching the highlights on ITV4
Red card incident seen from more angles than a dodecahedron.
English charge down which should have been a YC at least?
What English charge down? No mention of it.
Or Tuilagi hitting the man in the air.
ITV playing to their audience. Probably didn’t expect a random Taff to watch the game live AND the highlights
Watching live, including the replays I thought the coverage was more balanced. I also thought that Owens did pretty well, the Tuilagi and Lawes incidents could have gone either way and he explained his decisions vey well in both instances. As he did when England were infringing close to the line early on.
