Red cards
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I think the problem is for a lot of the 2010s players were coached to tackle high to smother the offload.
Players with a more classical technique always used to tackle low and hard.
IMHO World Rugby's stand against the high tackle is a good one and is improving the game as a spectacle once again and asvwell as promoting player safety and protecting their long-twrm health.
This has been a really interesting thread to read after-the-fact so to speak.
@sparky post above reflects my view perfectly. I played rugby in the 80's and 90's (yes, I am indeed an old bugger) and we were coached to tackle waist and lower. Players weren't so focused on and adept at the offload, so it was an effective (and safe) technique.
Something which occurs to me is that if World Rugby had to mandate that tackles are to be kept low, you would definitely see more offloads. In a game that is often dominated by defence, I actually kinda like that idea. And you kiwis should especially approve. You're the most adept at it, and will keep the game high paced.On a separate note - I do take issue with the swinging arm tackle technique. It is unnecessary and WWE-esque. If you're going to employ that technique, you accept the risk of getting carded if you're inaccurate in execution - and I have zero sympathy.
@Billy-Webb said in Red cards:
I think the problem is for a lot of the 2010s players were coached to tackle high to smother the offload.
Players with a more classical technique always used to tackle low and hard.
IMHO World Rugby's stand against the high tackle is a good one and is improving the game as a spectacle once again and asvwell as promoting player safety and protecting their long-twrm health.
This has been a really interesting thread to read after-the-fact so to speak.
@sparky post above reflects my view perfectly. I played rugby in the 80's and 90's (yes, I am indeed an old bugger) and we were coached to tackle waist and lower. Players weren't so focused on and adept at the offload, so it was an effective (and safe) technique.
Something which occurs to me is that if World Rugby had to mandate that tackles are to be kept low, you would definitely see more offloads. In a game that is often dominated by defence, I actually kinda like that idea. And you kiwis should especially approve. You're the most adept at it, and will keep the game high paced.On a separate note - I do take issue with the swinging arm tackle technique. It is unnecessary and WWE-esque. If you're going to employ that technique, you accept the risk of getting carded if you're inaccurate in execution - and I have zero sympathy.
Hear hear.
Both players were penalised for what the refereeing team deemed was a swinging arm to the neck/head area.
Remove the doubt with better tackling technique.
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Whichever poster said earlier that Kees Meeuws should come out of retirement to try for the ABs try-scoring record nailed it for me. He's the best I've ever seen at charging with the head 20cm from the turf with a powerful leg drive. Scored 10 tries for the ABs in 42 tests doing that which is the record for a prop? He'd be literally unstoppable from 5m out given the new law interpretations. Defenders would have to choose between giving up a "soft" try or a card+penalty try. Ugh.
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Whichever poster said earlier that Kees Meeuws should come out of retirement to try for the ABs try-scoring record nailed it for me. He's the best I've ever seen at charging with the head 20cm from the turf with a powerful leg drive. Scored 10 tries for the ABs in 42 tests doing that which is the record for a prop? He'd be literally unstoppable from 5m out given the new law interpretations. Defenders would have to choose between giving up a "soft" try or a card+penalty try. Ugh.
Whichever poster said earlier that Kees Meeuws should come out of retirement to try for the ABs try-scoring record nailed it for me. He's the best I've ever seen at charging with the head 20cm from the turf with a powerful leg drive. Scored 10 tries for the ABs in 42 tests doing that which is the record for a prop? He'd be literally unstoppable from 5m out given the new law interpretations. Defenders would have to choose between giving up a "soft" try or a card+penalty try. Ugh.
Hmmm... Wouldn't the question be how many times was he stopped due to what would now be an illegal tackle?
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Whichever poster said earlier that Kees Meeuws should come out of retirement to try for the ABs try-scoring record nailed it for me. He's the best I've ever seen at charging with the head 20cm from the turf with a powerful leg drive. Scored 10 tries for the ABs in 42 tests doing that which is the record for a prop? He'd be literally unstoppable from 5m out given the new law interpretations. Defenders would have to choose between giving up a "soft" try or a card+penalty try. Ugh.
Hmmm... Wouldn't the question be how many times was he stopped due to what would now be an illegal tackle?
Whichever poster said earlier that Kees Meeuws should come out of retirement to try for the ABs try-scoring record nailed it for me. He's the best I've ever seen at charging with the head 20cm from the turf with a powerful leg drive. Scored 10 tries for the ABs in 42 tests doing that which is the record for a prop? He'd be literally unstoppable from 5m out given the new law interpretations. Defenders would have to choose between giving up a "soft" try or a card+penalty try. Ugh.
Hmmm... Wouldn't the question be how many times was he stopped due to what would now be an illegal tackle?
I would say 100%!
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Whichever poster said earlier that Kees Meeuws should come out of retirement to try for the ABs try-scoring record nailed it for me. He's the best I've ever seen at charging with the head 20cm from the turf with a powerful leg drive. Scored 10 tries for the ABs in 42 tests doing that which is the record for a prop? He'd be literally unstoppable from 5m out given the new law interpretations. Defenders would have to choose between giving up a "soft" try or a card+penalty try. Ugh.
Hmmm... Wouldn't the question be how many times was he stopped due to what would now be an illegal tackle?
I would say 100%!
Whichever poster said earlier that Kees Meeuws should come out of retirement to try for the ABs try-scoring record nailed it for me. He's the best I've ever seen at charging with the head 20cm from the turf with a powerful leg drive. Scored 10 tries for the ABs in 42 tests doing that which is the record for a prop? He'd be literally unstoppable from 5m out given the new law interpretations. Defenders would have to choose between giving up a "soft" try or a card+penalty try. Ugh.
Hmmm... Wouldn't the question be how many times was he stopped due to what would now be an illegal tackle?
I would say 100%!
Zero is the answer! Prove otherwise!
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Whichever poster said earlier that Kees Meeuws should come out of retirement to try for the ABs try-scoring record nailed it for me. He's the best I've ever seen at charging with the head 20cm from the turf with a powerful leg drive. Scored 10 tries for the ABs in 42 tests doing that which is the record for a prop? He'd be literally unstoppable from 5m out given the new law interpretations. Defenders would have to choose between giving up a "soft" try or a card+penalty try. Ugh.
Hmmm... Wouldn't the question be how many times was he stopped due to what would now be an illegal tackle?
I would say 100%!
Zero is the answer! Prove otherwise!
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It's been funny to see the issue of Red cards as being about the danger a game is decided on the call of a referee, with NRL given as having a better system.
Because their grand final wasn't decided on a single dodgy call of a referee. No-sir-ee.
I was thinking about how red cards don't affect soccer football as much -- sides down a man often win. Then I remembered that the referee's call in those games that matters most is whether to award a penalty or not. Krusty can go mental about the allegedly dodgy penalty given to Wales that put Australia three more behind, but that's nothing compared to a penalty awarded in football.
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@MiketheSnow said in Red cards:
@mariner4life said in Red cards:
For the "just tackle lower" crowd, what exactly was Ofa T supposed to do differently?
Not lead with a swinging arm to the head.
Let the ball carrier continue his trajectory to the dirt, then jackal.
this is a prime example of why I have an issue with half the feedback people give saying players just need to change what they're doing - and it's solutions given by people watching super slow mo replays.
reality is that you've got about half a second to change your technique or make your arm disappear. not farking happening.
and your final sentence means you're not allowed to stop people scoring tries.
@WillieTheWaiter said in Red cards:
@MiketheSnow said in Red cards:
@mariner4life said in Red cards:
For the "just tackle lower" crowd, what exactly was Ofa T supposed to do differently?
Not lead with a swinging arm to the head.
Let the ball carrier continue his trajectory to the dirt, then jackal.
this is a prime example of why I have an issue with half the feedback people give saying players just need to change what they're doing - and it's solutions given by people watching super slow mo replays.
reality is that you've got about half a second to change your technique or make your arm disappear. not farking happening.
and your final sentence means you're not allowed to stop people scoring tries.
Oh come on willie! It's like when you tip over a cup of coffee or glass of water, don't just watch it fall, use the 2 tenths of a second to catch it and keep it upright.
It's your own fault, can't anybody see that?
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Genuine question for those pro the yellow cards on the kiwi props as my rugby career ended before my balls dropped.
How does someone defend a try-line when an attacker is diving in leading with their head and you are camped on that line? (Or worse are a couple metres away and have to act fast)
Maybe I'm not understanding the concept of 'swinging arm' but I would have thought that if you didn't use your arm and instead braced with your bodyweight that that could be classified as a no-arms tackle.I tried to do a youtube search for great prop tries..but the highlights are all just overweight outside backs
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Genuine question for those pro the yellow cards on the kiwi props as my rugby career ended before my balls dropped.
How does someone defend a try-line when an attacker is diving in leading with their head and you are camped on that line? (Or worse are a couple metres away and have to act fast)
Maybe I'm not understanding the concept of 'swinging arm' but I would have thought that if you didn't use your arm and instead braced with your bodyweight that that could be classified as a no-arms tackle.I tried to do a youtube search for great prop tries..but the highlights are all just overweight outside backs
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Genuine question for those pro the yellow cards on the kiwi props as my rugby career ended before my balls dropped.
How does someone defend a try-line when an attacker is diving in leading with their head and you are camped on that line? (Or worse are a couple metres away and have to act fast)
Maybe I'm not understanding the concept of 'swinging arm' but I would have thought that if you didn't use your arm and instead braced with your bodyweight that that could be classified as a no-arms tackle.I tried to do a youtube search for great prop tries..but the highlights are all just overweight outside backs
@Rembrandt dive under the player just before they touch the ground stopping the grounding...or run away from the contact zone to avoid the diving head
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@Rembrandt dive under the player just before they touch the ground stopping the grounding...or run away from the contact zone to avoid the diving head
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@taniwharugby Wouldn't you be risking a hefty head clash and potential double concussion?...oh the irony.
@Rembrandt if you are lower, they should get penalised for headbutting you.
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@Rembrandt if you are lower, they should get penalised for headbutting you.
@taniwharugby Nice, kind of the rugby version of:
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Genuine question for those pro the yellow cards on the kiwi props as my rugby career ended before my balls dropped.
How does someone defend a try-line when an attacker is diving in leading with their head and you are camped on that line? (Or worse are a couple metres away and have to act fast)
Maybe I'm not understanding the concept of 'swinging arm' but I would have thought that if you didn't use your arm and instead braced with your bodyweight that that could be classified as a no-arms tackle.I tried to do a youtube search for great prop tries..but the highlights are all just overweight outside backs
@Rembrandt said in Red cards:
Genuine question for those pro the yellow cards on the kiwi props as my rugby career ended before my balls dropped.
How does someone defend a try-line when an attacker is diving in leading with their head and you are camped on that line? (Or worse are a couple metres away and have to act fast)
Maybe I'm not understanding the concept of 'swinging arm' but I would have thought that if you didn't use your arm and instead braced with your bodyweight that that could be classified as a no-arms tackle.I tried to do a youtube search for great prop tries..but the highlights are all just overweight outside backs
Arms out in front of you. Take him onto your body, wrap man and ball and hold him up. Not so hard.
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@Bones I think you know people are not saying that...what is your solution then for a player 10m out, dropping from full height to waist height as you have committed for the try saving tackle from the side as you have been flying across
IN that split second you have to make the decision, often after you have made the committment to make a tackle, it is too late to change your action.
It simply isnt an easy situation to deal with, for either side...an attacker will always go low in that case as it is harder to stop, but a defender should stil have the right to attempt to stop you, 99% of the time it will be legally, should you be punished (YC/RC) for that purely accidental 1%? FOul play is still foul play.
I dont think anyone is more right or wrong than anyone else, is a bit of a no win situation for the game to deal with.
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@Rembrandt said in Red cards:
Genuine question for those pro the yellow cards on the kiwi props as my rugby career ended before my balls dropped.
How does someone defend a try-line when an attacker is diving in leading with their head and you are camped on that line? (Or worse are a couple metres away and have to act fast)
Maybe I'm not understanding the concept of 'swinging arm' but I would have thought that if you didn't use your arm and instead braced with your bodyweight that that could be classified as a no-arms tackle.I tried to do a youtube search for great prop tries..but the highlights are all just overweight outside backs
Arms out in front of you. Take him onto your body, wrap man and ball and hold him up. Not so hard.
@Billy-Webb said in Red cards:
@Rembrandt said in Red cards:
Genuine question for those pro the yellow cards on the kiwi props as my rugby career ended before my balls dropped.
How does someone defend a try-line when an attacker is diving in leading with their head and you are camped on that line? (Or worse are a couple metres away and have to act fast)
Maybe I'm not understanding the concept of 'swinging arm' but I would have thought that if you didn't use your arm and instead braced with your bodyweight that that could be classified as a no-arms tackle.I tried to do a youtube search for great prop tries..but the highlights are all just overweight outside backs
Arms out in front of you. Take him onto your body, wrap man and ball and hold him up. Not so hard.
Allow attackers head to pass between your legs. Grab attacker around midriff and invert him until vertical. Fall backwards unto your buttucks.
This DDT manoeuvre has the double benefit of making no initial contact with the head (no card, yay) and also ought to shake the ball loose when said head hits the ground (counterattack opportunity!)
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@Rembrandt said in Red cards:
Genuine question for those pro the yellow cards on the kiwi props as my rugby career ended before my balls dropped.
How does someone defend a try-line when an attacker is diving in leading with their head and you are camped on that line? (Or worse are a couple metres away and have to act fast)
Maybe I'm not understanding the concept of 'swinging arm' but I would have thought that if you didn't use your arm and instead braced with your bodyweight that that could be classified as a no-arms tackle.I tried to do a youtube search for great prop tries..but the highlights are all just overweight outside backs
Arms out in front of you. Take him onto your body, wrap man and ball and hold him up. Not so hard.
@Billy-Webb said in Red cards:
@Rembrandt said in Red cards:
Genuine question for those pro the yellow cards on the kiwi props as my rugby career ended before my balls dropped.
How does someone defend a try-line when an attacker is diving in leading with their head and you are camped on that line? (Or worse are a couple metres away and have to act fast)
Maybe I'm not understanding the concept of 'swinging arm' but I would have thought that if you didn't use your arm and instead braced with your bodyweight that that could be classified as a no-arms tackle.I tried to do a youtube search for great prop tries..but the highlights are all just overweight outside backs
Arms out in front of you. Take him onto your body, wrap man and ball and hold him up. Not so hard.
Except that the attacking player will always try to punch through the hole so will nearly always be to your left or right where using your arms to stop him is your only option.
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@Billy-Webb said in Red cards:
@Rembrandt said in Red cards:
Genuine question for those pro the yellow cards on the kiwi props as my rugby career ended before my balls dropped.
How does someone defend a try-line when an attacker is diving in leading with their head and you are camped on that line? (Or worse are a couple metres away and have to act fast)
Maybe I'm not understanding the concept of 'swinging arm' but I would have thought that if you didn't use your arm and instead braced with your bodyweight that that could be classified as a no-arms tackle.I tried to do a youtube search for great prop tries..but the highlights are all just overweight outside backs
Arms out in front of you. Take him onto your body, wrap man and ball and hold him up. Not so hard.
Except that the attacking player will always try to punch through the hole so will nearly always be to your left or right where using your arms to stop him is your only option.
@No-Quarter said in Red cards:
@Billy-Webb said in Red cards:
@Rembrandt said in Red cards:
Genuine question for those pro the yellow cards on the kiwi props as my rugby career ended before my balls dropped.
How does someone defend a try-line when an attacker is diving in leading with their head and you are camped on that line? (Or worse are a couple metres away and have to act fast)
Maybe I'm not understanding the concept of 'swinging arm' but I would have thought that if you didn't use your arm and instead braced with your bodyweight that that could be classified as a no-arms tackle.I tried to do a youtube search for great prop tries..but the highlights are all just overweight outside backs
Arms out in front of you. Take him onto your body, wrap man and ball and hold him up. Not so hard.
Except that the attacking player will always try to punch through the hole so will nearly always be to your left or right where using your arms to stop him is your only option.
Fair enough. Provided you're not swinging your arm, then a normal arms and shoulder tackle.
Can't / don't want to comment on the head contact if the player has his head down in a bull-charge. I'm buggered if I know how that gets refereed. Judgment call by the ref?
