RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1)
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@Nepia I have never been convinced by the strategy we have had to negate the rush defencesby kicking the ball away ( with chip kicks and cross kicks ) rather than holding. It doesn’t matter whether it has been Beauden or Richie we have persisted. Tonight against a team that kicked long our game looked really naive.
@kev agreed
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What about that box kick by Smith when we finally got attacking ball on their 22. What in the god damn fuck.
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@ACT-Crusader said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
No concerns with that loss. We were outplayed and Eddie Jones did his thing.
Never got the criticism of Itoje because he’s played like this before. Well done that man.
Look forward to seeing the ABs one more time against the Boks.
The criticism of Itoje is NZ rugby fan arrogance at its best.
@SammyC said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
The criticism of Itoje is NZ rugby fan arrogance at its best.
Not from me. It is because he was a dickhead with all the shouting and arm waving at lineouts not because he wasn't a good player.
It also wouldn't be arrogance to think another player isn't very good. Ignorant maybe, and certainly opinion. -
@Toddy said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
omebody mentioned shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic and I reckon that fits pretty well here.
the TWM have been shuffling players around right, left and centre for 3 seasons.
Hansen settles on a good Read/Ardie/Cane combination and picks a lock to play at 6 for a pivotal RWC game.
Go figure
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@Toddy said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
omebody mentioned shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic and I reckon that fits pretty well here.
the TWM have been shuffling players around right, left and centre for 3 seasons.
Hansen settles on a good Read/Ardie/Cane combination and picks a lock to play at 6 for a pivotal RWC game.
Go figure
Yeah, I've been a Foster apologist but everything I've seen from the TWM since Perth has been reactionary, disguised as dry powder.
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@Nepia I think the selectors in the end got caught out with an ageing forward pack The Franks change was late in the piece but so necessary. BBBR was off his best and Scott Barrett should have started at lock. Add to that Taylor looked to have peaked a season ago. I thought Read played quite well but no one looked good tonight. We looked flat this week and if it’s because the Irish game took too much out of them then that is an issue.
@kev said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@Nepia I think the selectors in the end got caught out with an ageing forward pack The Franks change was late in the piece but so necessary. BBBR was off his best and Scott Barrett should have started at lock. Add to that Taylor looked to have peaked a season ago. I thought Read played quite well but no one looked good tonight. We looked flat this week and if it’s because the Irish game took too much out of them then that is an issue.
I'm not sure it was so much an aging forward pack as, what they planned for and expected to happen - didn't. The lineout was a complete reversal on what i expected to happen - need to go back and look at how we lined up in that, because somehow we let Itoje just fucking kill us - seemed to be winning uncontested ball on their throw and getting up in front of our jumpers on ours -despite that we supposedly had four jumpers and they had two.
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@Toddy said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
omebody mentioned shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic and I reckon that fits pretty well here.
the TWM have been shuffling players around right, left and centre for 3 seasons.
Hansen settles on a good Read/Ardie/Cane combination and picks a lock to play at 6 for a pivotal RWC game.
Go figure
@Victor-Meldrew I was really busy this week so didn't post about it, but I was wondering what the hell had gone wrong that they didn't pick Cane. Really weird.
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Wind back 24 hours, start Cane instead of SB; Coles starting instead of Taylor; Bender on the bench instead of Jordie. Would it have made a difference?
@MrDenmore said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
Wind back 24 hours, start Cane instead of SB; Coles starting instead of Taylor; Bender on the bench instead of Jordie. Would it have made a difference?
No
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Eddie is a sly operator. Think Brumbies 2002/2003 etc. Finegan Gregan etc. He strategizes like a chess player. Starting with telling Marler to go over halfway during Haka. At that point my 10 point prediction in ABs favour changed to 30. I was upset at lack of respect. But it started what Eddie is good at. Niggle.Psychological edge. He is very good at that and I expect Etzebeth to be targeted for his temper in final if we get past Wales. Sad for Sam Cane and maybe Brodie wasn’t at his best. Sublime player but today Itoje jumped from “ meh” to wow ok....TJ didn’t really do much wrong but Hansen has to take flak for not changing Eddies plan I reckon. I’m bleak for you all as AB fans and hope Bokke can keep cup in the Southern Hemisphere. Can’t even begin to think how many decades the crowing will go on if Eng win after getting the cricket a few months back....aaaaargh
@mantissanet he’s a quality coach for sure. The Brumbies had quality players during his tenure 98-01 and got to the big dance and even won the choccies. He’s a true tactician. Remember he left the Brumbies after 2001 because he got the Wallabies job. Nucifora then got the Brumbies job and made some changes and got to the finals before the player revolt....
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@kev said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@Nepia I think the selectors in the end got caught out with an ageing forward pack The Franks change was late in the piece but so necessary. BBBR was off his best and Scott Barrett should have started at lock. Add to that Taylor looked to have peaked a season ago. I thought Read played quite well but no one looked good tonight. We looked flat this week and if it’s because the Irish game took too much out of them then that is an issue.
I'm not sure it was so much an aging forward pack as, what they planned for and expected to happen - didn't. The lineout was a complete reversal on what i expected to happen - need to go back and look at how we lined up in that, because somehow we let Itoje just fucking kill us - seemed to be winning uncontested ball on their throw and getting up in front of our jumpers on ours -despite that we supposedly had four jumpers and they had two.
@Chris-B said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
we let Itoje just fucking kill us - seemed to be winning uncontested ball on their throw and getting up in front of our jumpers on ours -despite that we supposedly had four jumpers and they had two.
And we let that happen time and time again. Did we ever throw it to the front?
Sort of thing indicated lack of leadership.
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Okay that was just very very painful. Not as much of a shock to the system as 2007 though because this was meant to be a tough game from the outset - especially when you look at the way the English developed through the season.
In one way this is nowhere near as bad as the CWC final, because of the comprehensive way we were outplayed in this game. So I'm able to move on to Cricket season once more.
But it still hurts, just not in the same heart ripped out way.
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@Duluth said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@Will_G said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
Itoje
Oh, hi
What brings you back here?
I believe Blackadder called those types "gloaters". There are other words of course.
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@MrDenmore said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
Wind back 24 hours, start Cane instead of SB; Coles starting instead of Taylor; Bender on the bench instead of Jordie. Would it have made a difference?
No
Cane would have made a difference.
Also think he adds a lot in the leadership department - sadly lacking today.
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Like you guys have been a rabid ABs fan all of my life and have never ever missed a game
I can not recall a match where our forwards have been so dominated for the entire game
Just come back from the pub in the UK - shell shocked !@Devon-Kiwi said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
Like you guys have been a rabid ABs fan all of my life and have never ever missed a game
Have to ask, did Bob Deans score or not?
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Cane would have made a difference.
Also think he adds a lot in the leadership department - sadly lacking today.
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
Cane would have made a difference.
Also think he adds a lot in the leadership department - sadly lacking today.
Yeah, it's utter BS to pretend Cane wouldn't have made a difference when starting even if the result stayed the same - we have a much better chance of a win if he starts.
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@Duluth said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
Steve Hansen "We played as well as we could today. We stepped up to the plate."
Utter bullsh#t. So long, fattie.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
Cane would have made a difference.
Also think he adds a lot in the leadership department - sadly lacking today.
Yeah, it's utter BS to pretend Cane wouldn't have made a difference when starting even if the result stayed the same - we have a much better chance of a win if he starts.
@Nepia said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
we have a much better chance of a win if he starts.
He's the glue in the low numbers
Bit like Ringo Starr's drumming. Underrated and it's only when someone else tries to play like him and can't, you realize how bloody good he actually is.
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Stages of loss:
Denial : that horse bolted after the 3rd aimless kick giving possession away with attacking ball in the opposition 40.
Anger: 78 minutes of that
Bargaining: why no repeat of Lions game one style?
Depression: not this time. No Wayne Barnes
Acceptance: yeah, the " three wise men" you ponce around for 3 years tinkering for the "next big thing", and on show night, you served up the most insipid All Black display in living memory !Bah!!
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Don’t be too hard on your blokes. They tried as hard as they could. The difficulty with being consistently the best team in the world is that it feels doubly crap when you lose...although, how would I know.
PS good to see you fellas
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@Chris-B said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
we let Itoje just fucking kill us - seemed to be winning uncontested ball on their throw and getting up in front of our jumpers on ours -despite that we supposedly had four jumpers and they had two.
And we let that happen time and time again. Did we ever throw it to the front?
Sort of thing indicated lack of leadership.
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@Chris-B said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
we let Itoje just fucking kill us - seemed to be winning uncontested ball on their throw and getting up in front of our jumpers on ours -despite that we supposedly had four jumpers and they had two.
And we let that happen time and time again. Did we ever throw it to the front?
Sort of thing indicated lack of leadership.
Yeah - perhaps - but, the thing is that you want deep ball,if you can get it and throwing deep to Sam Whitelock is usually money-ball.
We just got skinned.
Out-muscled up front and their backs showed invention at least on a par with ours.
Just not good enough and to be honest, we don't have any players that would have made a difference tonight.
What we planned to do we couldn't execute.
