RWC: 3rd/4th game All Blacks vs Wales
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Just watching the replay of the QF. I know Wales were injury depleted, but it was frustrating to see us play the kind of tactics that we needed, with arguably some of the personnel we needed vs England; forwards hammered up front to set a platform, Richie kicking for territory, backs combat the rush D by taking it to the line then cutting back and through
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@antipodean He was standing out when he caught it?
@Gunner said in RWC: 3rd/4th game All Blacks vs Wales:
@antipodean He was standing out when he caught it?
As mentioned they changed the rule.
Personally I think for the worse.
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Just watching the replay of the QF. I know Wales were injury depleted, but it was frustrating to see us play the kind of tactics that we needed, with arguably some of the personnel we needed vs England; forwards hammered up front to set a platform, Richie kicking for territory, backs combat the rush D by taking it to the line then cutting back and through
@canefan yep definite change of tactic from the English game, more direct again, most of our forwards fronted up albeit against a tired Welsh pack but to me it highlights how wrong we got almost everything last week in regards to tactics
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@Gunner said in RWC: 3rd/4th game All Blacks vs Wales:
@antipodean He was standing out when he caught it?
As mentioned they changed the rule.
Personally I think for the worse.
@booboo especially as it opens it up for a judgement call about if they determine it to have crossed the plane...unlike the previous rule it was black and white...
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@canefan yep definite change of tactic from the English game, more direct again, most of our forwards fronted up albeit against a tired Welsh pack but to me it highlights how wrong we got almost everything last week in regards to tactics
@taniwharugby just like our arguably best showing of the year, bled 2, Cane and Sonny could have made a difference. BFA was excellent as well. Play these tactics, Cane in, SBW ALB midfield, BFA and Bridge on the wings, would have given us a better chance last week
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@taniwharugby just like our arguably best showing of the year, bled 2, Cane and Sonny could have made a difference. BFA was excellent as well. Play these tactics, Cane in, SBW ALB midfield, BFA and Bridge on the wings, would have given us a better chance last week
@canefan said in RWC: 3rd/4th game All Blacks vs Wales:
@taniwharugby just like our arguably best showing of the year, bled 2, Cane and Sonny could have made a difference. BFA was excellent as well. Play these tactics, Cane in, SBW ALB midfield, BFA and Bridge on the wings, would have given us a better chance last week
It’s all conjecture but I’ll counter that with ALB looked flat last week and Goodhue was to one bringing it. SBW’s form is so up and down, but his direct running does attract attention.
BFA and Reece might’ve been the better combo.
Cane definitely needed to start and Shag probably needed to trust that having Barrett and Tuipolotu on the bench would’ve been okay.
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@canefan said in RWC: 3rd/4th game All Blacks vs Wales:
@taniwharugby just like our arguably best showing of the year, bled 2, Cane and Sonny could have made a difference. BFA was excellent as well. Play these tactics, Cane in, SBW ALB midfield, BFA and Bridge on the wings, would have given us a better chance last week
It’s all conjecture but I’ll counter that with ALB looked flat last week and Goodhue was to one bringing it. SBW’s form is so up and down, but his direct running does attract attention.
BFA and Reece might’ve been the better combo.
Cane definitely needed to start and Shag probably needed to trust that having Barrett and Tuipolotu on the bench would’ve been okay.
@ACT-Crusader I reckon it was more tactics last week than personel, given they selected what we thought was a team to attack thier lineout, didnt.
We altered our point of attack from the previous games, and got caught behind the gainline mast times.
ALB had a big super load didnt he, and has played quite a bit for ABs, maybe he is fatigued?
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Randomly
Watching third and forth is the most passionless AB test you'll experience.
Good win though
The first 8 minutes of watching Sam Cane had every AB fan sighing
Scott Barrett can always look back with pride the day he menaced rugby great Alun Wyn Jones. Got some great hits in.
Poor Reiko. Tried so hard to do what BFA did but couldn't find it within himself. Perhaps we forget how few years he's been plying his trade.
8 minutes of watching Bender had me postulating "that's what it looks like when one is past it". 72 minutes of "You know nothing Jon Snow!"
Barnes refereeing his last game in the limelight rather than what was in front of him. 2nd half was just silly. What, Wayne, was red number 6 doing for their pick and go try?
What if Jordie Barrett isn't actually that good? All I'm starting to see is a McCahill/Mannix/Ralph type with tons of opportunities.
55 minutes we just seemed to give up on d structure. Totally understandable though.
We just watched the end of an empire. The Ted Shag dynasty was better than any rugby fan, from anywhere, could ever expect from their team in their lifetime.
It was a great ride and hopefully discerning fans took time to pause and smell the roses on the way.
We bested the world for more than a decade with hard, clever graft minus the budget or population of others. So many great wins and so few losses.
Nothing but admiration and respect ( as the bitterness of last week's tepid performance wanes), for Shag et al for some terrific weekends over the years.
And, refreshingly nice to look forward to a new broom and a hitting of the reset button with the enthusiasm that comes from a new start. Hopefully we retain all the IP from the back room and management staff. All Black conditioning, culture and camaraderie looks superb, we just need the new coaches to focus on game plans and style for 80 minutes. Looking forward to it.
Finally in an ode to Babe:
That'll do Shag. That'll do
@Siam said in RWC: 3rd/4th game All Blacks vs Wales:
Poor Reiko. Tried so hard to do what BFA did but couldn't find it within himself. Perhaps we forget how few years he's been plying his trade.
8 minutes of watching Bender had me postulating "that's what it looks like when one is past it". 72 minutes of "You know nothing Jon Snow!"
It was almost like a switch got flicked. Bender looked old, slow and off the pace - and then suddenly he ran a good, well timed line - smashed through a couple of Welshmen to score and remembered that he is "Fucking Ben Smith". And away he went.
Rieko will have the same moment. I think it's like cricket, when you're in a bad trot. It doesn't seem like you are, but you're trying so hard and overthinking things and so your timing is fractionally out. And then suddenly you smack one through the covers out of the middle of the bat and away you go.
Two things I think I'd conclude out of this World Cup. Firstly, I suspect we didn't quite have the same bone deep hunger to win that we had in 2011. If you watch those Weight of a Nation and Chasing Great documentaries, Richie McCaw was pretty much consumed with winning in 2011 after losing in the QF in 2007. This time, we didn't have anyone in the playing team who had experienced a World Cup loss. Conversely, England has had three failures - including the humiliation of getting dumped out in pool play in their home Cup. They were so desperate, they hired Eddie!
Secondly, a bit like Ireland, I think this Cup came at a bad time in our player cycle. We had a bunch of older guys who were hanging on for this Cup and it was just a bridge too far - so we had hundreds of test caps watching from the sidelines - Franks, Bender, Crotty, SBW (from the bench).
So much that was pretty much new this season:
Nepo as the premier tighthead.
Angus and Ofa (loosehead) as the bench props.
Ardie and Sam as the dual opensides.
Scott Barrett as a blindside flanker.
Beaunga.
Anton and Jack as the premier midfield.
George and Sevu as the wings.The experienced players, unfortunately, were no longer the best players. And then you add in a few other factors like Retallick getting injured, Rieko losing some form, I reckon Sam Whitelock wasn't in top form either, leaving Sam Cane on the bench....
You can kind of imagine Eddie's team talk - "These guys are good players, but they're not legends - and we don't need to fear them. They're rookies and if we pressure them, they'll pop like a pimple!"
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@Siam said in RWC: 3rd/4th game All Blacks vs Wales:
Poor Reiko. Tried so hard to do what BFA did but couldn't find it within himself. Perhaps we forget how few years he's been plying his trade.
8 minutes of watching Bender had me postulating "that's what it looks like when one is past it". 72 minutes of "You know nothing Jon Snow!"
It was almost like a switch got flicked. Bender looked old, slow and off the pace - and then suddenly he ran a good, well timed line - smashed through a couple of Welshmen to score and remembered that he is "Fucking Ben Smith". And away he went.
Rieko will have the same moment. I think it's like cricket, when you're in a bad trot. It doesn't seem like you are, but you're trying so hard and overthinking things and so your timing is fractionally out. And then suddenly you smack one through the covers out of the middle of the bat and away you go.
Two things I think I'd conclude out of this World Cup. Firstly, I suspect we didn't quite have the same bone deep hunger to win that we had in 2011. If you watch those Weight of a Nation and Chasing Great documentaries, Richie McCaw was pretty much consumed with winning in 2011 after losing in the QF in 2007. This time, we didn't have anyone in the playing team who had experienced a World Cup loss. Conversely, England has had three failures - including the humiliation of getting dumped out in pool play in their home Cup. They were so desperate, they hired Eddie!
Secondly, a bit like Ireland, I think this Cup came at a bad time in our player cycle. We had a bunch of older guys who were hanging on for this Cup and it was just a bridge too far - so we had hundreds of test caps watching from the sidelines - Franks, Bender, Crotty, SBW (from the bench).
So much that was pretty much new this season:
Nepo as the premier tighthead.
Angus and Ofa (loosehead) as the bench props.
Ardie and Sam as the dual opensides.
Scott Barrett as a blindside flanker.
Beaunga.
Anton and Jack as the premier midfield.
George and Sevu as the wings.The experienced players, unfortunately, were no longer the best players. And then you add in a few other factors like Retallick getting injured, Rieko losing some form, I reckon Sam Whitelock wasn't in top form either, leaving Sam Cane on the bench....
You can kind of imagine Eddie's team talk - "These guys are good players, but they're not legends - and we don't need to fear them. They're rookies and if we pressure them, they'll pop like a pimple!"
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Whilst a solid win, I think the game highlighted the same old weaknesses we have seen pretty much ever since the Lions tour mixed in with that individual brilliance that gets them points. For example, the ABs really need to be more confrontational / structured in the forwards at times (earn the right to go wide) and to be more pragmatic when they are in vulnerable positions on the field. At the moment the balanced just doesn't seem right. Helter-skelter and hope for the best kind of scenario.
Got the same feeling as someone mentioned before that maybe Jodie Barrett just isn't that good. Last weeks mistake was just beyond silly, it was comical.
Anyway, last night's game highlighted and confirmed one thing, we need a new coaching group. -
@MrDenmore said in RWC: 3rd/4th game All Blacks vs Wales:
Coltman for number 8?
Not sure he's got the right height to weight ratio
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@Chris-B I agree with you about the timing and our player cycle. Some of the younger players will form the core of the 2023 team, with greater experience and hopefully armed with the pain of 2019 to fuel them to victory
@canefan said in RWC: 3rd/4th game All Blacks vs Wales:
@Chris-B I agree with you about the timing and our player cycle. Some of the younger players will form the core of the 2023 team, with greater experience and hopefully armed with the pain of 2019 to fuel them to victory
England even more potential
27 - The average age of @EnglandRugby's starting XVs at #RWC2019 is 27 years and 63 days, the youngest of any Tier 1 side and the 3rd youngest overall behind Uruguay (26y 140d) and Namibia (27y 43d). Future. -
@voodoo said in RWC: 3rd/4th game All Blacks vs Wales:
Awful game. Have no idea why its played.
Like most World Cup events there is a 3rd/4th - Bronze medal match.
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@voodoo said in RWC: 3rd/4th game All Blacks vs Wales:
Awful game. Have no idea why its played.
Like most World Cup events there is a 3rd/4th - Bronze medal match.
@ACT-Crusader also did you see the crowd at the game, says it all really.
That fend was a thing of beauty, Cory Jane would be proud.
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All the talk of Ben Smith being old and slow was always bullshit I think. He's never been particularly fast, his acceleration and footwork in traffic have always been his strength, along with low error-rate, good option-taking and strength in the air.
He was good all super season at 15, then the ABs drop him from his preferred position and give him really limited shots to get used to wing again in poor team performances and all of a sudden he's out of the 23 for jordie barrett, who - at this stage of his career - is always on for a fucking howler of a mistake, and didn't really deserve a place in the squad in the first place. I was/am okay with the mounga/barrett combo, but smith probably should have started on the wing, and absolutely bloody definitely should have made the bench.As for Barrett over Cane. Sure you can see the theory, attack the lineout, but you don't drop sam cane to play scott barrett out of position and expect your defence to be okay. the cane/frizzell combo was actually really good in this game, gave the early defensive platform that everything else flowed from.
as for those thinking SBW would have made a difference, yeah, nah. when has he ever? alb has been great all year, and goodhue too - and he was our best in the loss. crotty should have been on the bench instead of sbw for composure and mistake-free footy.
we've got to stop thinking of the bench as being full of ball-runners who are going to stick an extra 20 points on an already-beaten opposition, and pretending that is 'impact'. Rassie showed us this WC what real bench impact looks like: a full tight 5 of big hard fluffybunnies, not a flash-harry amongst them - and they're subbing all the guys who physically are least suited to endurance. that's actually a situation where i could support jordie being picked - if it was just him and a halfback who both barely play barring injury or the result being beyond doubt, to allow a bench stacked with forwards.
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@Bones said in RWC: 3rd/4th game All Blacks vs Wales:
@reprobate you forgot to add...Rieko should move to centre, he'd be good. Based on nothing of course, but he's ordinary on the wing right now so let's ditch our good midfielders anyway.
now i'm no rieko hater, but centre? now that's remarkable. goodhue was great for the crusaders all year, hasn't put a foot wrong for the ABs, come back strongly from injury, best on our side of the park in the semi loss in my eyes.
still, rieko... hard done by not being given jack's spot eh?@reprobate said in RWC: 3rd/4th game All Blacks vs Wales:
now i'm no rieko hater, but centre? now that's remarkable.
Not advocating for him as a centre, but Rieko actually spent a lot of time (relative to the time he got on the field) at centre in this RWC.
Canada: Switched at the 50 minute mark. (30 mins)
Namibia: Came on for Goodhue at the 60 minute mark. (20 mins)
Wales: Switched at 56 minutes. (24 mins) -
@Hooroo I still have one too, one of those burner ones where I converted all my tapes on to DVD
@taniwharugby said in RWC: 3rd/4th game All Blacks vs Wales:
@Hooroo I still have one too, one of those burner ones where I converted all my tapes on to DVD
I've got a bunch of All Black games raped from mid 80s to early 90a of you want them.....?
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@taniwharugby said in RWC: 3rd/4th game All Blacks vs Wales:
@Hooroo I still have one too, one of those burner ones where I converted all my tapes on to DVD
I've got a bunch of All Black games raped from mid 80s to early 90a of you want them.....?
@BartMan said in RWC: 3rd/4th game All Blacks vs Wales:
@taniwharugby said in RWC: 3rd/4th game All Blacks vs Wales:
@Hooroo I still have one too, one of those burner ones where I converted all my tapes on to DVD
I've got a bunch of All Black games raped from mid 80s to early 90a of you want them.....?
good to see old fat fingered BartMan back!!
I dont actually use it, it sits in the TV cabinet gathering dust now all the stuff I wanted to keep is on DVD (somewhere...
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@BartMan said in RWC: 3rd/4th game All Blacks vs Wales:
@taniwharugby said in RWC: 3rd/4th game All Blacks vs Wales:
@Hooroo I still have one too, one of those burner ones where I converted all my tapes on to DVD
I've got a bunch of All Black games raped from mid 80s to early 90a of you want them.....?
good to see old fat fingered BartMan back!!
I dont actually use it, it sits in the TV cabinet gathering dust now all the stuff I wanted to keep is on DVD (somewhere...
)
