Cricket: NZ vs England
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The more that result settles, the more satisfying it becomes.
To get an innings victory after a team has scored over 350 batting first feels like a significant win.
There were at most two periods inthe game where the English were ahead (just before Stokes got out and when Kane got out) and in the first case when we got an opening we were pretty ruthless and in the second we kept calm and pretty much the entire middle order stepped up.
Finally, Watling's innings was a truly special one and belongs in the pantheon of the all time great NZ innings. He looked like he could have batted another day if the match situation hadn't asked him to hit out. It was particularly special since it contributed to a win. Too many of our great innings are rear guards that delay the inevitable or force a draw.
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You know what’s so pleasing about this performance for me?
When the Black Caps were the laughing stock of test cricket, we’d sometimes have a couple of sessions where we’d dominate a top team, say have them 5 or 6 down for bugger all. Then inevitably someone in the opposition team would save the day with a big tonne or a bag of wickets and we’d go back to being shit.
Man it pissed me off, those bloody good teams always had someone that would stand up and perform when required under pressure to steal the game away from us again.
Well guess what, the Black Caps are now that good team who can soak up the pressure of being dominated for periods, before someone always puts their hand up when the team needs them the most.
It’s certainly a golden age of NZ cricket, soak it up people.
@Gunner said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
You know what’s so pleasing about this performance for me?
When the Black Caps were the laughing stock of test cricket, we’d sometimes have a couple of sessions where we’d dominate a top team, say have them 5 or 6 down for bugger all. Then inevitably someone in the opposition team would save the day with a big tonne or a bag of wickets and we’d go back to being shit.
Man it pissed me off, those bloody good teams always had someone that would stand up and perform when required under pressure to steal the game away from us again.
Well guess what, the Black Caps are now that good team who can soak up the pressure of being dominated for periods, before someone always puts their hand up when the team needs them the most.
It’s certainly a golden age of NZ cricket, soak it up people.
Yep, I was thinking along those lines last night as well. We've said it every year for a few years now, but we really are in a golden age and it's been such a pleasure to watch these guys play. Just all class both in their conduct and the way they've been applying themselves. Don't like using fluffy terminology, but it looks like they've developed an incredible culture. When guys like CdG, who appears more suited to the shorter forms, are playing as well as they are you know we have an environment where players thrive.
Boult barely featured and Kane got his average and no more, and we slapped one of the big teams by an innings and 65 runs. I can't stress enough how un-Black Caps like that is - in years gone by if our best 2 - 3 players didn't step up we would be the ones staring down the barrel of an innings defeat.
Difference today is the core of the team is not far behind our best players.
Loving it. Bring on summer!
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@SynicBast said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
@Billy-Webb said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
Speaking of which... do you blokes mind if we take Wagner and Watling please? :face_with_stuck-out_tongue_winking_eye:
Shame that the Kolpak rule has gutted RSA cricket through the export of talent although does Brexit mean Kolpak won't apply anymore as it's an EU ruling not a UK one?
My understanding of it is that if Brexit happens, then Kolpak rule disappears for the UK. (I can't swear how quickly though).
The UK would then put its own rules in place again.@Billy-Webb said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
@SynicBast said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
@Billy-Webb said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
Speaking of which... do you blokes mind if we take Wagner and Watling please? :face_with_stuck-out_tongue_winking_eye:
Shame that the Kolpak rule has gutted RSA cricket through the export of talent although does Brexit mean Kolpak won't apply anymore as it's an EU ruling not a UK one?
My understanding of it is that if Brexit happens, then Kolpak rule disappears for the UK. (I can't swear how quickly though).
The UK would then put its own rules in place again.Premier Rugby I know have put in that they will honour the Kolpak rules for this season. After that who knows, they don;t have to and the UK certainly doesn't have to enact that law - in fact I see it as going out, BREXIT is all about stopping immigration as one of the key drivers.
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@SynicBast said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
@Billy-Webb said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
Speaking of which... do you blokes mind if we take Wagner and Watling please? :face_with_stuck-out_tongue_winking_eye:
Shame that the Kolpak rule has gutted RSA cricket through the export of talent although does Brexit mean Kolpak won't apply anymore as it's an EU ruling not a UK one?
My understanding of it is that if Brexit happens, then Kolpak rule disappears for the UK. (I can't swear how quickly though).
The UK would then put its own rules in place again.@Billy-Webb said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
@SynicBast said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
@Billy-Webb said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
Speaking of which... do you blokes mind if we take Wagner and Watling please? :face_with_stuck-out_tongue_winking_eye:
Shame that the Kolpak rule has gutted RSA cricket through the export of talent although does Brexit mean Kolpak won't apply anymore as it's an EU ruling not a UK one?
My understanding of it is that if Brexit happens, then Kolpak rule disappears for the UK. (I can't swear how quickly though).
The UK would then put its own rules in place again.Imagine a country setting it's own rules, what a wacky world that would be ....
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We have 6 guys averaging 40+ with the bat and 3 less than 30 with the ball.
Quite often a batsman will start off well and their average slowly declines but even CdG has played 28 innings - next lowest is Nicholls with 42.
The three bowlers have 693 wickets between them!!!
Our two "passengers" are Santner and Raval - hardly surprising as openers and spinners are our biggest traditional weaknesses but look at the match Santner had and Raval has the 7th best average of any Kiwi who has opened in 20+ innings and is our 11th highest scorer as an opener He also almost invariably succeeds in the main job of an opener - he sees off the new ball and thus makes it easier for the classy batsmen who follow.
We have won 32 tests this decade. It took us until March 1994 to record our 32nd test victory in our history!!!!!
Two CWC Finals as well. I never imagined we could have it so good. Hadlee's 17 year career only encompassed 22 victories - Fleming had 31 in 14 years
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@dogmeat Have you got your post sorted yet? I quoted it and it gave me the entire post but for some reason was only posting the first line in the thread
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We have 6 guys averaging 40+ with the bat and 3 less than 30 with the ball.
Quite often a batsman will start off well and their average slowly declines but even CdG has played 28 innings - next lowest is Nicholls with 42.
The three bowlers have 693 wickets between them!!!
Our two "passengers" are Santner and Raval - hardly surprising as openers and spinners are our biggest traditional weaknesses but look at the match Santner had and Raval has the 7th best average of any Kiwi who has opened in 20+ innings and is our 11th highest scorer as an opener He also almost invariably succeeds in the main job of an opener - he sees off the new ball and thus makes it easier for the classy batsmen who follow.
We have won 32 tests this decade. It took us until March 1994 to record our 32nd test victory in our history!!!!!
Two CWC Finals as well. I never imagined we could have it so good. Hadlee's 17 year career only encompassed 22 victories - Fleming had 31 in 14 years
@dogmeat said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
We have 6 guys averaging 40+ with the bat and 3 less than 30 with the ball.
Quite often a batsman will start off well and their average slowly declines but even CdG has played 28 innings - next lowest is Nicholls with 42.
The three bowlers have 693 wickets between them!!!
Our two "passengers" are Santner and Raval - hardly surprising as openers and spinners are our biggest traditional weaknesses but look at the match Santner had and Raval has the 7th best average of any Kiwi who has opened in 20+ innings and is our 11th highest scorer as an opener He also almost invariably succeeds in the main job of an opener - he sees off the new ball and thus makes it easier for the classy batsmen who follow.
We have won 32 tests this decade. It took us until March 1994 to record our 32nd test victory in our history!!!!!
Two CWC Finals as well. I never imagined we could have it so good. Hadlee's 17 year career only encompassed 22 victories - Fleming had 31 in 14 years
Raval is the kind of opener that would be singled out and dropped in past black cap team for 'not scoring fast enough' or 'creating pressure' while we ignore the fact that our middle order might look great but are wildly inconsistent.
In this team Kane and Ross protect Raval by being consistent enough to take advantage of the hard graft Raval does. He's the kind of role player that does the dirty work most don't really notice but is key to our wider success. I'm sure both Ross and Kane will average more with Raval and Latham opening.
He remains the tempting candidate to drop for the up and comers (Will Young), but I hope we resist the temptation to slot a promising middle order bat in as a makeshift opener. If an opener is bashing down the door by all means try him out, but we need to recognise that being a test opener requires a specific set of skills that not all batsmen will posses.
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List of all time 3rd/4th seamers:
Wagner really is exceptional.
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List of all time 3rd/4th seamers:
Wagner really is exceptional.
@Rapido said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
List of all time 3rd/4th seamers:
Wagner really is exceptional.
That's fantastic. While Kallis 'may' be a bit too far to topple, he should easily get into second place.
How old is Wagner?
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@Rapido said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
List of all time 3rd/4th seamers:
Wagner really is exceptional.
That's fantastic. While Kallis 'may' be a bit too far to topple, he should easily get into second place.
How old is Wagner?
@Hooroo said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
@Rapido said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
List of all time 3rd/4th seamers:
Wagner really is exceptional.
That's fantastic. While Kallis 'may' be a bit too far to topple, he should easily get into second place.
How old is Wagner?
Funny how his list of "Major Teams" includes Otago but excludes ND. Little ole ND not worth mentioning.
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@Hooroo said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
@Rapido said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
List of all time 3rd/4th seamers:
Wagner really is exceptional.
That's fantastic. While Kallis 'may' be a bit too far to topple, he should easily get into second place.
How old is Wagner?
Funny how his list of "Major Teams" includes Otago but excludes ND. Little ole ND not worth mentioning.
@Hooroo said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
@Hooroo said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
@Rapido said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
List of all time 3rd/4th seamers:
Wagner really is exceptional.
That's fantastic. While Kallis 'may' be a bit too far to topple, he should easily get into second place.
How old is Wagner?
Funny how his list of "Major Teams" includes Otago but excludes ND. Little ole ND not worth mentioning.
Gulp. His is a hard role, and may find he suddenly so'oialos at any moment given his age.
I think his could be the hardest role to replace.
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@Hooroo said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
@Rapido said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
List of all time 3rd/4th seamers:
Wagner really is exceptional.
That's fantastic. While Kallis 'may' be a bit too far to topple, he should easily get into second place.
How old is Wagner?
Funny how his list of "Major Teams" includes Otago but excludes ND. Little ole ND not worth mentioning.
@Hooroo said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
@Hooroo said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
@Rapido said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
List of all time 3rd/4th seamers:
Wagner really is exceptional.
That's fantastic. While Kallis 'may' be a bit too far to topple, he should easily get into second place.
How old is Wagner?
Funny how his list of "Major Teams" includes Otago but excludes ND. Little ole ND not worth mentioning.
NORTHERN DISTRICTS IS NEW ZEALAND CRICKET
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Watling is so awesome at getting the best out of others, even Reason was inspired to write a decent article.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/117702899/mark-reason-the-true-brilliance-of-bj-watling
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So much praise we will now crash and burn in Hamilton.
Even I will have to bear some responsibility for the upcoming comeuppance, for my best all-time 3rd seamer link.
@Rapido said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
So much praise we will now crash and burn in Hamilton.
Even I will have to bear some responsibility for the upcoming comeuppance, for my best all-time 3rd seamer link.
we are all so scarred by the past
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@Rapido said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
So much praise we will now crash and burn in Hamilton.
Even I will have to bear some responsibility for the upcoming comeuppance, for my best all-time 3rd seamer link.
we are all so scarred by the past
@mariner4life said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
@Rapido said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
So much praise we will now crash and burn in Hamilton.
Even I will have to bear some responsibility for the upcoming comeuppance, for my best all-time 3rd seamer link.
we are all so scarred by the past
Yeah I was thinking that after reading @No-Quarter post. It's really hard to adjust the mindset that we're actually a good side now and not the much maligned black craps.
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@mariner4life said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
@Rapido said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
So much praise we will now crash and burn in Hamilton.
Even I will have to bear some responsibility for the upcoming comeuppance, for my best all-time 3rd seamer link.
we are all so scarred by the past
Yeah I was thinking that after reading @No-Quarter post. It's really hard to adjust the mindset that we're actually a good side now and not the much maligned black craps.
@Bones said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
@mariner4life said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
@Rapido said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
So much praise we will now crash and burn in Hamilton.
Even I will have to bear some responsibility for the upcoming comeuppance, for my best all-time 3rd seamer link.
we are all so scarred by the past
Yeah I was thinking that after reading @No-Quarter post. It's really hard to adjust the mindset that we're actually a good side now and not the much maligned black craps.
despite at least 4 years of continued excellence in nearly all forms, when the poms cranked on 350, and we lost a couple early, in my mind we were conceding a first innings lead of 150.
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@Bones said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
@mariner4life said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
@Rapido said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
So much praise we will now crash and burn in Hamilton.
Even I will have to bear some responsibility for the upcoming comeuppance, for my best all-time 3rd seamer link.
we are all so scarred by the past
Yeah I was thinking that after reading @No-Quarter post. It's really hard to adjust the mindset that we're actually a good side now and not the much maligned black craps.
despite at least 4 years of continued excellence in nearly all forms, when the poms cranked on 350, and we lost a couple early, in my mind we were conceding a first innings lead of 150.
@mariner4life and scoring circa 80 in the second.
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Been reading some commentary about Joe Root and how the captaincy is dragging him down brought up a fun question about best batsmen to never captain a side.
For NZ who would our best batsman who never captained the team be? Captain is defined as being the captain at the toss. So guys who only captained a couple of games when the regular captain was injured are counted.
I'm struggling to come up with names for the list. In recent times the only guys that come to mind are Astle and Richardson. Styris if we're counting ODIs.
Some of the older names might get in though. I don't think Donnelly, Dempster, Sutcliffe or Turner ever captained a test.
@Cyclops said in Cricket: NZ vs England:
Been reading some commentary about Joe Root and how the captaincy is dragging him down brought up a fun question about best batsmen to never captain a side.
For NZ who would our best batsman who never captained the team be? Captain is defined as being the captain at the toss. So guys who only captained a couple of games when the regular captain was injured are counted.
I'm struggling to come up with names for the list. In recent times the only guys that come to mind are Astle and Richardson. Styris if we're counting ODIs.
Some of the older names might get in though. I don't think Donnelly, Dempster, Sutcliffe or Turner ever captained a test.
If he continues his current trajectory Tom Latham could enter the conversation in time
