Flag

jegga

Have the vexilogists made a statement yet?

Rembrandt

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="547248" data-time="1449827856">
Have the vexilogists made a statement yet?</blockquote>
 
I'm sure its being drafted as we speak. Will be great to see what an expert has to say as to what the right choice actually is

Billy Tell

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="547248" data-time="1449827856">
<div>
Have the vexilogists made a statement yet?
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</blockquote>
He he.
 
The whole point of a flag is that it appeals to the masses, not to vexilogists, nor to people with a PhD in graphic design or PC-ness. The Lockwood flag might be a "fail" for a vexilogist or a left-wing arty PC designer, but a decent chunk of the NZ population like it enough.
 
Will be interesting to see if anyone puts forward any coherent arguments as to the merits of the current flag that don't involve mentioning John Key or $26M.
 
I think the rest of the world will think us weird if we willingly vote to keep a colonial relic with a British flag in the upper corner and an unhealthy resemblance to the Australian flag.

TeWaio

My voting paper never showed up, despite complaining and then asking them to try re-send it. The enrollment confirmation did show up in the post when I registered in August.
 
Thanks a lot, great value for $26m. Good thing the one I like won.

Rancid Schnitzel

Somewhere in a ridiculously overpriced Auckland bar, a tattooed hipster will emerge to complain that no one he knows didn't vote for Red Peak. 
Somewhere in England a New Zealand immigrant will be wrapped in an engineering firm's flag, bitterly complaining about the stupidity of his fellow countrymen. He'll then go off to get a flu shot.

rotated

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="TeWaio" data-cid="547257" data-time="1449830817">
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My voting paper never showed up, despite complaining and then asking them to try re-send it. The enrollment confirmation did show up in the post when I registered in August.
 
Thanks a lot, great value for $26m. Good thing the one I like won.
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</blockquote>
 
I got mine despite living overseas and not being eligible to vote after not having been back to NZ since 2011. So they are doing well.

rotated

Looking at the data of the results <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://electionresults.govt.nz/2015_flag_referendum1/results-by-count-report.html'>so many thoughts</a>:
 
Despite the negativity the results to make me very concerned that Blue/Black has a chance of getting over the line with the right marketing. Basically they need to transform this from "changing the flag" to "getting rid of the union jack". If they can do that successfully they have a shot.
 
Blue/black and red/black commanded 82% of the primary vote - to me that there is a move by a decent part of the country to change the flag, but not too dramatically! They overwhelmingly chose the safest designs with the most resemblance to our current flag - this option is the best to take to an electorate with that mindset.
 
Also interesting that 80% of Koru's votes were transferred to Red Peak and Silver Fern. That to me says there is a strong but small group who think the Lockwood designs are shit (I fall into this group), but still participated in the process - the bigger question is how many of the 2+ million who didn't vote because they thought they were all shit/thought it was futile/didn't get their papers like TeWaio.
 
The fact this process produced a silver fern design that got 8% of the vote is a total indictment on the whole process.
 
edit: Just saw the 10% informal vote. Between that and the ~12% of the population that wouldn't vote for a Lockwood design in a pink fit you need about ~71% of the remaining voters to get it up - just don't see it happening, but if they play it smart as above they can get close. Keep going how they are and it will be a landslide for "No"

taniwharugby

This flag wasn't the one Key preferred either was it? That may actually help some of the anti-key brigade actually vote sensibly rather than just to oppose him.

Virgil

FAIL
 
Thank fuck this stupid horseshit Red Peak shit is over.

taniwharugby

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="547258" data-time="1449831956">Somewhere in a ridiculously overpriced Auckland bar, a tattooed hipster will emerge to complain that no one he knows didn't vote for Red Peak. 
Somewhere in England a New Zealand immigrant will be wrapped in an engineering firm's flag, bitterly complaining about the stupidity of his fellow countrymen. He'll then go off to get a flu shot.</blockquote>
 
He is anti vax isn't he...

booboo

Interesting take on it rotated. 
You're obviously not getting what you want so it's bad :). 
I tend to agree with the analysis of preferences but think this is indicative that the country is likely to change to a flag that most people like. And I think this is a good thing. 
Would be interesting to know the preferences for the various Lockwoods. I expect they likely 1 and 2 for the vast majority. 
Very pleased the triangle wankery was put to bed. Even if it was my third preference.

No Quarter

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="TeWaio" data-cid="547257" data-time="1449830817">My voting paper never showed up, despite complaining and then asking them to try re-send it. The enrollment confirmation did show up in the post when I registered in August. 
Thanks a lot, great value for $26m. Good thing the one I like won.</blockquote>
Hoskings made a good point about how ridiculous the voting system is. Surely in 2015 we can set up a place online to vote?! We have the "realme" accounts for logging into all of the govt dept websites which are good enough to apply for loans etc but aren't good enough to be used for voting? 
I think there would be a large portion of voters that simply never received their papers - especially when you consider the significant number of people renting it is likely their adress was outdated in the system. Then another portion of people that just couldn't be bothered with the hassle.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Virgil" data-cid="547268" data-time="1449858900">
FAIL 
Thank fuck this stupid horseshit Red Peak shit is over.</blockquote>
I think the original people behind were apolitical , it polled terribly in the original rounds and was forgotten. Unfortunately the usual leftards ( and David Seymour who will do any thing for publicity)who thought they might hijack the process and embarrass Key made cocks of themselves with their pathetically transparent campaign. Do far none of this crap they have tried has actually worked, yeah I get they don't like him and think he's a dick. Big deal usually at least half thd country think the pm is a dick and they are usually right. It was an pointless distraction from people who said the original campaign was a pointless distraction . 
I actually liked red peak at first , then I saw who was behind it . When did our national colours become blue white and black? I always thought it was red white and black , a Lockwood fern in those colours would look great IMHO.

Baron Silas Greenback

I see Crowd Goes Wild is still meddling in politics. I have stopped watching the show.
They just tweeted this.
 
This flag process doesn't appear to be going so well . Lucky we already have one

rotated

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="booboo" data-cid="547271" data-time="1449862197">
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Interesting take on it rotated. 
You're obviously not getting what you want so it's bad :).
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I hope it didn't come across as throwing a tanty about the result. Ideally I wanted none of those five. I just feel conceptually the process has resulted in four flawed flags and the red headed stepchild flag that are not the best NZ can do. I think if you said at the beginning of this a pure silver fern would garner less than 8% of the vote you would have been laughed out of town - but by choosing such a shitty, soft-edged, Woolmark looking fern that happened. Much in the same vein of Australia's republic vote - the convention didn't produce a republican option representative of what the electorate wanted.
 
The effectiveness of the process will be judged by the outcome of the run-off. But if it's anything 65/35 (counting informals as a no vote) or lower then I think that it is pretty clear either the government selected the wrong process/committee or the committee selected the wrong flags.
 
Personally if I were Key I wouldn't have even put it to a vote because of the paradox of choice. I'd have just had an election promise to change the flag and then just change in parliament and gone "here you are". No need to help make this sausage. I imagine it's a lot like having a child - when you get it sight unseen you learn to love it regardless and wouldn't change a thing (barring medical ailments or being born in Christchurch) but if you were forced to negotiate with your wife over the gender, eyes colour, hair colour, eventual height, exact skin tone, nose type you would eventually just decide "fuck it, we aren't having a kid". And that's probably whats going to happen here.
 
In any event I don't think this is a "winning" flag against the current flag - but it perhaps could win if the supporters shift the focus entirely away from the merits of Lockwood and onto the merits of removing the Union Jack. That could be the winning argument.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="547283" data-time="1449869047">I see Crowd Goes Wild is still meddling in politics. I have stopped watching the show. 
They just tweeted this. 
 This flag process doesn't appear to be going so well . Lucky we already have one</blockquote>
 
Had Richardson ever been involved in sharing tedious political thoughts? If not I'd be interested know what he thinks of having two co hosts behaving like this. 
Anyone want to get against Holt standing for the greens in 2017? It's a shame Mullet doesn't post here anymore , I think he'd be surprised to see what people think of his behaviour .

Billy Tell

@rotated.
 
The shitfest if Key HAD unilaterally rammed a new flag thru parliament...

Nepia

Just been watching a surfing comp from Hawaii on TV and the commentators have been talking about NZ surfer Ricardo Chrisite. They were discussing how no matter where the comps are there's always NZ flags on the beach - "the black flag with a Silver Fern'.

No Quarter

If we change the flag now, then we are unlikely to change it again at least in the near future. 
If we don't change it now, then we will probably have another crack at it in the near future. 
On that basis, I am going to vote to keep the current flag, in the hope that in 10 or 20 years time we'll change it to black with a silver fern. 
It's going to annoy me for a long time that we didn't even have that as an option. Talk about butchering an oppotunity.

Virgil

So was it actually stated the prefered choice (im assuming most kiwis would support it) of the black flag with silverfern wasnt an option because of copy right issues?
I recall seeing the article about the NZRU concerns, but given its popularity im surprised more wasnt mentioned about challenging etc.

The Silver Fern

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