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jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="547283" data-time="1449869047">I see Crowd Goes Wild is still meddling in politics. I have stopped watching the show. 
They just tweeted this. 
 This flag process doesn't appear to be going so well . Lucky we already have one</blockquote>
 
Had Richardson ever been involved in sharing tedious political thoughts? If not I'd be interested know what he thinks of having two co hosts behaving like this. 
Anyone want to get against Holt standing for the greens in 2017? It's a shame Mullet doesn't post here anymore , I think he'd be surprised to see what people think of his behaviour .

Billy Tell

@rotated.
 
The shitfest if Key HAD unilaterally rammed a new flag thru parliament...

Nepia

Just been watching a surfing comp from Hawaii on TV and the commentators have been talking about NZ surfer Ricardo Chrisite. They were discussing how no matter where the comps are there's always NZ flags on the beach - "the black flag with a Silver Fern'.

No Quarter

If we change the flag now, then we are unlikely to change it again at least in the near future. 
If we don't change it now, then we will probably have another crack at it in the near future. 
On that basis, I am going to vote to keep the current flag, in the hope that in 10 or 20 years time we'll change it to black with a silver fern. 
It's going to annoy me for a long time that we didn't even have that as an option. Talk about butchering an oppotunity.

Virgil

So was it actually stated the prefered choice (im assuming most kiwis would support it) of the black flag with silverfern wasnt an option because of copy right issues?
I recall seeing the article about the NZRU concerns, but given its popularity im surprised more wasnt mentioned about challenging etc.

rotated

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Virgil" data-cid="547298" data-time="1449879516">
<div>
So was it actually stated the prefered choice (im assuming most kiwis would support it) of the black flag with silverfern wasnt an option because of copy right issues?
I recall seeing the article about the NZRU concerns, but given its popularity im surprised more wasnt mentioned about challenging etc.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
I think that was specific to the All Blacks fern of which the NZRU has copyright.
 
There are many different ways to do a fern - the Lockwood Fern is probably 80% of the way to a decent fern if put on a black background would be a viable option.
 
This result perhaps indicates we are maybe more attached to the southern cross than I realised. Perhaps a centered southern cross (white stars) on a black background.

Godder

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="547272" data-time="1449863788">
Hoskings made a good point about how ridiculous the voting system is. Surely in 2015 we can set up a place online to vote?! We have the "realme" accounts for logging into all of the govt dept websites which are good enough to apply for loans etc but aren't good enough to be used for voting?</blockquote>
 
No, because using a log-in is the antithesis of anonymous voting. 
Also, because RealMe is an identity service, which is generally not the issue with voting - the issue is protecting the votes themselves from being hacked and changed later.

Bar

Why can't we just have a black flag with a nice fern on it....

Rancid Schnitzel

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="547216" data-time="1449819507">
The greens co leader told him off for referring to moronic women who leave to join Isis as " jihadi brides" . 
Because it's sexist to think that all a woman can be is a wife. 
Our opposition parties are a joke , this is not a good thing long term for us</blockquote>
 
Shit really? 
How old is Key's son? At this rate he can take over after his dad dies. 
What really pisses me off is how these protests have nothing to do with the principle but the side. Labour and Greens would be quite happy to change the flag, but because the Key Monster has taken the initiative, then all of sudden it's "too expense" and "flawed". Most of that Red Peak bullshit was just a blatant attempt to undermine the process. If you want to change the flag whytf would you care about who sets the process in motion?

Stockcar86

<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://giphy.com/gifs/d2YWK4LHNaLp4xVu'>http://giphy.com/gifs/d2YWK4LHNaLp4xVu</a>

Godder

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="547234" data-time="1449824549">
Funny story about the 26 mill expenditure. My sister is a massive lefty who works in the govt. I asked her opinion on it, just for shits and giggles. Her opinion was: 
"26 million is what the govt spend on social issues about every 30 mins. People who offer that have no clue what they are talking about and are just using it as an excuse to vote against it, without realising by voting for this reason, they are actually the anti-thesis of their own view"</blockquote>
 
Speaking as a leftie in the public service, I agree. The figure is tiny in the context of government spending.

Baron Silas Greenback

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="547293" data-time="1449875204">
<div>
If we change the flag now, then we are unlikely to change it again at least in the near future. 
If we don't change it now, then we will probably have another crack at it in the near future. 
On that basis, I am going to vote to keep the current flag, in the hope that in 10 or 20 years time we'll change it to black with a silver fern. 
It's going to annoy me for a long time that we didn't even have that as an option. Talk about butchering an oppotunity.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
 
I am very confident you wont get another chance to change it. Politicians have seen how political the debate becomes and will avoid it like the plague for decades. You are kidding yourself if you think you will get a chance to vote for a silver fern flag in the next 40 years.

TeWaio

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="547519" data-time="1450037808">
<div>
I am very confident you wont get another chance to change it. Politicians have seen how political the debate becomes and will avoid it like the plague for decades. You are kidding yourself if you think you will get a chance to vote for a silver fern flag in the next 40 years.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
I completely agree with this. People who are saying "don't like the options, rather wait for the do-over in X years" (i.e. a couple of parliamentary cycles time) are out of their minds. 
Good on Key for actually making something happen rather than just talking about it.

booboo

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="TeWaio" data-cid="547620" data-time="1450086567">
I completely agree with this. People who are saying "don't like the options, rather wait for the do-over in X years" (i.e. a couple of parliamentary cycles time) are out of their minds. 
Good on Key for actually making something happen rather than just talking about it.</blockquote>
 
What happens when those same people don't like those options in x0 years time. Or what about the other bunch of people who don't like thise options. You're never going to get absolute consensus. 
Personally i like the option. It's got:

silver fern on black
acknowledgement of tradition and history (southern cross)
a story of who we are and where we're from (a land proud of our natural beauty located 'neath the southern cross)
it doesn't look like anyone else's (Straya or any other bland combinations of stripes, quadrilaterals and two dimensional shapes)
a sense of newness and excitement 
But that's just me and I'm no vexologist. 
But i do hope it gets up.

canefan

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Godder" data-cid="547369" data-time="1449949666">
<div>
Speaking as a leftie in the public service, I agree. The figure is tiny in the context of government spending.
</div>
</blockquote>
Christine Rankin spent more than that on earrings when she was with WINZ ;)

Godder

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="canefan" data-cid="547624" data-time="1450089578">
Christine Rankin spent more than that on earrings when she was with WINZ ;)</blockquote>
 
Tuku Morgan's underpants!

rotated

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="547519" data-time="1450037808">
<div>
I am very confident you wont get another chance to change it. Politicians have seen how political the debate becomes and will avoid it like the plague for decades. You are kidding yourself if you think you will get a chance to vote for a silver fern flag in the next 40 years.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
I'm a big Key fan, but I think he horribly mismanaged the narrative.
 
Still I don't think the debate has hurt him in the slightest - much like a republic debate it is a wonderful thing because it gives a government heading towards the end of it's natural lifecycle with a year focused on something else rather than the day-to-day running of the parliment.
 
Any savvy operator would pull this out of their back pocket if they wanted to give their party a year off during their 2nd or 3rd term.

Rembrandt

I think I just accidentally might have convinced my physio to vote for the change. All it took was providing some history of the current flag, dispelling the $26million cost (that has already been spent..in NZ therefor giving NZers employment) and pointing out between the union jack and the silver fern it is the latter which more represents me as a kiwi. 
I wonder what the referendum results would be if reasoned debate was as loud as the scaremongering?

rotated

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rembrandt" data-cid="547694" data-time="1450147436">
<div>
I wonder what the referendum results would be if reasoned debate was as loud as the scaremongering?
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Do you think the debate really effects the voting though? I mean at the end of the day the question is a lot closer to "what is your favourite colour" than "do you support a value added tax or sales tax"?
 
Also is scaremongering the right word? The only scaremongering I've heard is the "you better vote for this, otherwise you won't get another chance".

taniwharugby

scaremongering isnt the right word, but I know what Rembrandt means, which is what the RSA were 'promoting' for people to spoil the vote and the social media 'campaign' showing how to spoil your voting papers.

The Silver Fern

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