Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..
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@Crucial said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
@jegga said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
@Crucial said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
If we are going to diverge into examples of hypocrisy what about those that proclaim that they won't consume dairy products because of the 'harm' to the environment and switch to almond, or worse still, cashew milk.
I ask them if they have ever considered how a cashew grows. Basically one cashew nut comes from one fruit. It takes a tree load of fruits to produce a about 8kg of nuts only unless you farm them really intensively and irrigate above the natural environment. Even then you are looking at around 200kg per hectare per year. Nowhere near comparable to dairy protein output.
Same with almonds. Massive tracts of California given over to almond growing with water being sucked from far away and the need to continually pump in bees that can't survive naturally in such a non-diverse ecology.
The almond thing is insane, I was talking to a guy from California about it over Xmas and he couldn’t believe the industry made it through the drought . Their presence in California probably made the effects of the drought even worse .
Have you seen Series 3 of Goliath? That is set in the almond growing area and touches on the dodgy shit around water rights.
Season one was brilliant will check it out , is the hot brunette still in it?
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There's a lot of nonsense talked about milk and other dairy products too. The largest study I've seen (136k participants) found that consumption of all dairy products, except butter, was correlated with reduced cardiovascular disease.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(18)31812-9/fulltext
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@jegga said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
@Crucial said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
@jegga said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
@Crucial said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
If we are going to diverge into examples of hypocrisy what about those that proclaim that they won't consume dairy products because of the 'harm' to the environment and switch to almond, or worse still, cashew milk.
I ask them if they have ever considered how a cashew grows. Basically one cashew nut comes from one fruit. It takes a tree load of fruits to produce a about 8kg of nuts only unless you farm them really intensively and irrigate above the natural environment. Even then you are looking at around 200kg per hectare per year. Nowhere near comparable to dairy protein output.
Same with almonds. Massive tracts of California given over to almond growing with water being sucked from far away and the need to continually pump in bees that can't survive naturally in such a non-diverse ecology.
The almond thing is insane, I was talking to a guy from California about it over Xmas and he couldn’t believe the industry made it through the drought . Their presence in California probably made the effects of the drought even worse .
Have you seen Series 3 of Goliath? That is set in the almond growing area and touches on the dodgy shit around water rights.
Season one was brilliant will check it out , is the hot brunette still in it?
Yeah. A bit tranny looking for me, but I know from the other thread that appeals to you
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@taniwharugby said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
@Crucial all about what you choose, less processed crap, going for the better quality stuff as opposed to the average stuff you get at supermarkets, plus all the processed crap they sell.
I was astounded at the poor quality of the meat available in NZ supermarkets last time I was back. It just looked shit. Especially the chicken. I would go to the butcher as well.
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@Crucial said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
@jegga said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
@Crucial said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
@jegga said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
@Crucial said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
If we are going to diverge into examples of hypocrisy what about those that proclaim that they won't consume dairy products because of the 'harm' to the environment and switch to almond, or worse still, cashew milk.
I ask them if they have ever considered how a cashew grows. Basically one cashew nut comes from one fruit. It takes a tree load of fruits to produce a about 8kg of nuts only unless you farm them really intensively and irrigate above the natural environment. Even then you are looking at around 200kg per hectare per year. Nowhere near comparable to dairy protein output.
Same with almonds. Massive tracts of California given over to almond growing with water being sucked from far away and the need to continually pump in bees that can't survive naturally in such a non-diverse ecology.
The almond thing is insane, I was talking to a guy from California about it over Xmas and he couldn’t believe the industry made it through the drought . Their presence in California probably made the effects of the drought even worse .
Have you seen Series 3 of Goliath? That is set in the almond growing area and touches on the dodgy shit around water rights.
Season one was brilliant will check it out , is the hot brunette still in it?
Yeah. A bit tranny looking for me, but I know from the other thread that appeals to you
It’s all the rage at the moment and you know how I like to follow the latest fashion trends
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@mariner4life said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
I was astounded at the poor quality of the meat available in NZ supermarkets last time I was back. It just looked shit. Especially the chicken. I would go to the butcher as well.
my Mother-in-law has been over from the UK, and she said the cuts of NZ Lamb they get in Scotland better than ours, and cheaper.
Sadly, I guess $$$ drives alot in NZ due to rising prices, so people look for the cheaper options, which are usually poor quality.
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@taniwharugby said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
@mariner4life said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
I was astounded at the poor quality of the meat available in NZ supermarkets last time I was back. It just looked shit. Especially the chicken. I would go to the butcher as well.
my Mother-in-law has been over from the UK, and she said the cuts of NZ Lamb they get in Scotland better than ours, and cheaper.
Sadly, I guess $$$ drives alot in NZ due to rising prices, so people look for the cheaper options, which are usually poor quality.
My impression was ALL the good stuff was going overseas at export prices.
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@mariner4life said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
@taniwharugby said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
@Crucial all about what you choose, less processed crap, going for the better quality stuff as opposed to the average stuff you get at supermarkets, plus all the processed crap they sell.
I was astounded at the poor quality of the meat available in NZ supermarkets last time I was back. It just looked shit. Especially the chicken. I would go to the butcher as well.
Yeah totally agree. Presentation obviously pays a part, but I was surprised as well. UK does have its share of good and poor quality. The choice is ridiculous.
@crucial , how did you find it moving back after 2 years here?
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@mariner4life said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
@taniwharugby said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
@mariner4life said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
I was astounded at the poor quality of the meat available in NZ supermarkets last time I was back. It just looked shit. Especially the chicken. I would go to the butcher as well.
my Mother-in-law has been over from the UK, and she said the cuts of NZ Lamb they get in Scotland better than ours, and cheaper.
Sadly, I guess $$$ drives alot in NZ due to rising prices, so people look for the cheaper options, which are usually poor quality.
My impression was ALL the good stuff was going overseas at export prices.
And we pay good money for the shitty stuff that doesn't pass muster. Same with fruit. By all means I am happy to eat less than export perfect produce, but don't screw me by bumping up the price based on export price levels
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On the almond thing, there was a thread on here a while back and it highlighted that they measured their water consumption in foot acres. ie an acre in size x a foot deep. The amount they were using was so vast that it couldn't really be measured in gallons.
And yes, cheap, processed meat is just shit (even so called bacon can be shit). Just eat better meat but not US portion sizes.
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@mariner4life said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
@taniwharugby said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
@mariner4life said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
I was astounded at the poor quality of the meat available in NZ supermarkets last time I was back. It just looked shit. Especially the chicken. I would go to the butcher as well.
my Mother-in-law has been over from the UK, and she said the cuts of NZ Lamb they get in Scotland better than ours, and cheaper.
Sadly, I guess $$$ drives alot in NZ due to rising prices, so people look for the cheaper options, which are usually poor quality.
My impression was ALL the good stuff was going overseas at export prices.
Yup, I worked in a meat department in a more gourmet place once and some of the boxes (the real expensive shit) were marked "Export Quality". We produce some of the best meat in the world but don't get to eat it ourselves.
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I very rarely eat processed anything. Not out of some moral crusade, but because I can cook, and it tastes better using fresh ingredients.
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@No-Quarter said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
@mariner4life said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
@taniwharugby said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
@mariner4life said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
I was astounded at the poor quality of the meat available in NZ supermarkets last time I was back. It just looked shit. Especially the chicken. I would go to the butcher as well.
my Mother-in-law has been over from the UK, and she said the cuts of NZ Lamb they get in Scotland better than ours, and cheaper.
Sadly, I guess $$$ drives alot in NZ due to rising prices, so people look for the cheaper options, which are usually poor quality.
My impression was ALL the good stuff was going overseas at export prices.
Yup, I worked in a meat department in a more gourmet place once and some of the boxes (the real expensive shit) were marked "Export Quality". We produce some of the best meat in the world but don't get to eat it ourselves.
And that's shit. Understandable, but shit.
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@mariner4life said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
I very rarely eat processed anything. Not out of some moral crusade, but because I can cook, and it tastes better using fresh ingredients.
Same. That's not to say I don't like eating shitty takeout as much as the next guy. But my kids know the difference between good and bad, and some restaurants are downright lazy. I remember an Italian place we went to on the Sunshine coast last year, couldn't even make a pizza (was like a bad version of Leaning Tower) and lasagne. Disgraceful
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@No-Quarter said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
@mariner4life said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
@taniwharugby said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
@mariner4life said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
I was astounded at the poor quality of the meat available in NZ supermarkets last time I was back. It just looked shit. Especially the chicken. I would go to the butcher as well.
my Mother-in-law has been over from the UK, and she said the cuts of NZ Lamb they get in Scotland better than ours, and cheaper.
Sadly, I guess $$$ drives alot in NZ due to rising prices, so people look for the cheaper options, which are usually poor quality.
My impression was ALL the good stuff was going overseas at export prices.
Yup, I worked in a meat department in a more gourmet place once and some of the boxes (the real expensive shit) were marked "Export Quality". We produce some of the best meat in the world but don't get to eat it ourselves.
We import a lot of the pork we eat though and a decent amount of it comes from China .
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Considering we are a farming nation, the price of dairy and meat here is farking ridiculous. Doubly so considering the quality. I've stopped buying chicken because it was just garbage. Even buying cuts of scotch fillet can be hit and miss because so much fat, once you trim it off there is fark all meat left. I've also noticed bacon has gone up in price.
Eat shit, vegans. (I tried some dairy-free vegan ice cream and BARF. Also, I went to a cafe last year, and we saw what looked like a nice slice of cheesecake to share. Alas it turned out to be vegan and had a really unpleasant texture and aftertaste.)
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@Mokey said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
the price of dairy
I remember someone in the dairy industry telling me that Fonterra would be a disaster. Part of that was giving them monopoly control of the NZ dairy market - a direct transfer of wealth from NZ consumers to the industry.
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@jegga said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
@No-Quarter said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
@mariner4life said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
@taniwharugby said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
@mariner4life said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
I was astounded at the poor quality of the meat available in NZ supermarkets last time I was back. It just looked shit. Especially the chicken. I would go to the butcher as well.
my Mother-in-law has been over from the UK, and she said the cuts of NZ Lamb they get in Scotland better than ours, and cheaper.
Sadly, I guess $$$ drives alot in NZ due to rising prices, so people look for the cheaper options, which are usually poor quality.
My impression was ALL the good stuff was going overseas at export prices.
Yup, I worked in a meat department in a more gourmet place once and some of the boxes (the real expensive shit) were marked "Export Quality". We produce some of the best meat in the world but don't get to eat it ourselves.
We import a lot of the pork we eat though and a decent amount of it comes from China .
Check out your local Countdown freezer section and find a shit ton of Spanish pork belly. If it's cheaper to process and fly that stuff over to sell there is something wrong
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@MajorRage said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
@mariner4life said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
@taniwharugby said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:
@Crucial all about what you choose, less processed crap, going for the better quality stuff as opposed to the average stuff you get at supermarkets, plus all the processed crap they sell.
I was astounded at the poor quality of the meat available in NZ supermarkets last time I was back. It just looked shit. Especially the chicken. I would go to the butcher as well.
Yeah totally agree. Presentation obviously pays a part, but I was surprised as well. UK does have its share of good and poor quality. The choice is ridiculous.
@crucial , how did you find it moving back after 2 years here?
It was 3 years and living in the UK really did adjust my eating habits away from basing meals around a meat protein i.e. pick a meat then think what to do with it. Anything 'affordable' is poor quality and factory farmed. The very stuff that fuels the righteous vegan arguments. So I basically stuck to the higher quality but expensive stuff where I could tell it's origin. Therefore ate less of it.
Back here I now follow the same principle. I think with supermarket or bargain butcher stuff you either get poor quality animals (e.g. dairy steers or old cow) or the cuts that don't sell well on the export market like shoulder chops from lamb. The other thing here is that supermarket butchers cut the meat to a price point so the steaks are too thin etc. Luckily some places will get in good quality stuff and cut it like a proper butcher but as in the UK you pay for it.
I prefer to live out of my garden as much as possible so base dishes on whatever is ready to pick at the time or whatever is in season and at prime quality/low price. -
@Tim although dont alot of Euro supermarkets sell milk as loss leaders, while in NZ our supermarkets sell it at break even.
