Grace Millane
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This is an instance where the criminal justice system has performed very satisfactorily. He's locked in a cage for well long enough and on a short leash thereafter.
Save the criticisms or tinkering for when the system grossly misrepresents a criminal travesty.
Murders will always happen, dealing with them consistently is the important part
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Apart from the horrific murder, I think all the women he harassed, threatened, and manhandled will sleep better knowing that sack of shit is locked away. Ditto all the others he lied to and ripped off.
I'm really pleased with the sentence. It does actually feel like justice.
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I've always wondered why we need to know the gory details of how someone commits murder and how he or she goes about disposing of the body. I don't believe it's about journalism, it's blatant sensationalism. There are some things we just don't need to know. Less is more
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@canefan said in Grace Millane:
@Godder said in Grace Millane:
@canefan said in Grace Millane:
@Godder said in Grace Millane:
Yeah, 20-30 years is likely, although life parole means he can be pulled back inside for anything until he dies.
The guy is a bad seed, you can redeem a guy like that. Room him with the pizza guy killer
Agree that it's unlikely, but 30 years is a long time
He's in his late 20s right? If he gets out aged late 50s he will be more than physically capable of doing it again. Perishing on the inside would be preferable to spare another family the pain and suffering the Millanes have suffered
The parole system is quite conservative, for all the complaints about it - if the psych reports etc show any risk, he won't be going anywhere.
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@canefan the lurid has always fascinated people. The reality is that those things physically happened. I don't think we can change that.
We can however change our social judgement of those facts., e.g. she was into some harmless kink. The appropriate judgement is, " meh, so what, she wasn't hurting anyone. She can still be a great person."
It's the puritan/Victorian era judgement by some that diminish her character on an outdated standard that fucks me off.
In other words, fuck the media and the puritans that seek to focus on the trivial. We must confront facts, not hide them for fear of judgement
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@Bones that really is some amateur hour type shit. Don't get me wrong, this piece of shit can rot in jail for all I care. But if he is up on other charges in other cases then it will be pretty hard for there not to be any bias from prospective jurors.
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@canefan said in Grace Millane:
I've always wondered why we need to know the gory details of how someone commits murder and how he or she goes about disposing of the body. I don't believe it's about journalism, it's blatant sensationalism. There are some things we just don't need to know. Less is more
Because when the details come out they havent committed murder, just accused of it. A defendant needs to have full rights access to bring up anything he/she wants. Otherwise our judicial system is in bad shape. When the govt starts to decide what you are allowed to say to defend yourself in coirt... we are all fucked.
The media on the other hand had no need to widely publish the defence claims.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback Counter-argument is why should a defence lawyer in a rape case be able to bring up how the "alleged" victim was dressed, or their previous sexual history? Both are irrelevant. It's about consent not lifestyle choices
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@dogmeat said in Grace Millane:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback Counter-argument is why should a defence lawyer in a rape case be able to bring up how the "alleged" victim was dressed, or their previous sexual history? Both are irrelevant. It's about consent not lifestyle choices
Beacuse they should be able to bring up anything they like, otherwise you are asking the govt to create some arbitary line, and that is a disaster. Let a jury of peers decide if it is relevant, or a douche bag move form a scum lawyer.
And consent and lifestyle choices can merge, what if the victim had a rape fantasy that she shared with exes and friends, and then she gets raped? Does it make it not rape? Nope, Does it make it rape? Nope. All depends on the evidence presented and the jury of peers. However if we let the govt decide what lifestyle choices are allowed to be discussed in a trial....
Do you really trust the law makers that much? Why this continual desire form some people to give incompetent politicians more and more power?
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@dogmeat said in Grace Millane:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback Counter-argument is why should a defence lawyer in a rape case be able to bring up how the "alleged" victim was dressed, or their previous sexual history? Both are irrelevant. It's about consent not lifestyle choices
That's not a counter argument I believe.
What that comes down to is a prescribed definition of consent that will draw a line in the sand for proof of.
Anything below that line is then not a defence.
At the moment the definition is way too arguable, hence the right to bring up inferences.
I understand that consent isn't always black and white and we don't want to have contracts signed for a root but a set of initial criteria would be good eg was the complainant intoxicated/ conscious (argue that out first before anything).
There will still be grey areas (like the Kuggelin case) but you can let juries decide on that without sexual history and clothing etc being an element. -
@Baron-Silas-Greenback I agree it shouldn't be legislated but Judges need to be far more vigilant and unaccepting of that sort of questioning.
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@dogmeat said in Grace Millane:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback I agree it shouldn't be legislated but Judges need to be far more vigilant and unaccepting of that sort of questioning.
You dont trust jurors to make that determination? I believe it is a fundamental right in a democratic to get a decision from a jury of your peers.
Judicial over reach is not much better than political over reach. -
@Baron-Silas-Greenback Seen the make up of most jurys…..
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@dogmeat said in Grace Millane:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback Seen the make up of most jurys…..
Seen the make up of most judges and politicians?
Seems to me that fundamentally you want to trust politicians and judges and I want to trust the populace to decide cases.
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@dogmeat said in Grace Millane:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback Seen the make up of most jurys…..
My best mate who used to be a cop said if guilty of a crime, he'd elect to have a jury trial every day of the week. Innocent, just a judge...
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback not at all - I posted months ago my belief that the trial by jury is the least flawed option, but it is still flawed
