The future of NZ Rugby
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So, what is the best/ a good way forward?
High school footy seems like a potentially lucrative product to me, as long as the TV infrastructure can be set up, while moving all academies to Super teams is a likely move and probably a good one.
The key thing for me is having a Super competition that is engaging. I like pools where teams play against other local teams then there is a secondary competition that follows across borders (like a Heineken Cup).
That would mean (for example) a SA pool, Aus pool, NZ pool, Asian pool (including Fijian teams, for example), Japan pool, Argentinian pool, and potentially a North American pool.
We could have either 14 teams, of which some advance, or 5 or 6 Super teams, of which some advance. On that, it would be interesting to see the modeling, but my feeling is that there is an extra layer that needs removing for our population size - either provincial or Super teams.
My feeling is that younger viewers (i.e., >30 yrs) probably identify with their Super teams anyway, and these are established brands, so the only potential move would be to expand to 6 teams and try to get Harbour and and Northland as one team.
@gt12 said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
The key thing for me is having a Super competition that is engaging. I like pools where teams play against other local teams then there is a secondary competition that follows across borders (like a Heineken Cup).
See, I guess this shows how hard it is to have the perfect competition, I'm the opposite, I prefer matches where NZ teams are playing non NZ teams. I hated the NZ teams play each other twice structure. I remember missing more games at that time than in any other era of watching Super Rugby.
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@Hooroo said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@Stargazer said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
I'd be furious if they canned the NPC .
You realise that doesn't matter right? What actually matters is implementation of a product(s) that aren't loss making. NPC died years ago despite a handful of passionate supporters.
I just hope that the decision they make is a good watch as I haven't watched NPC properly in ten years
Good for you, less so for those of us who prefer the NPC. Plus, it's reliant on them making a product that is profitable, and maybe no product can be successful and separate from the top down structure of NZ rugby.
With this and Oz rugby falling apart I guess I need to find a new sport to follow:
NRL - fucking useless Warriors, I hate origin, it's not the 90s anymore.
AFL - I just don't get aerial ping pong.
Wendyball - I made my decision not to follow it at age 5 so no reason to change that now.
V8's - Holden gone, car racing isn't a sport, and I don't even like cars anyway.
Netball -Hmmm, long legged ladies in skirts, could be a contender.@Nepia said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@Hooroo said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@Stargazer said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
I'd be furious if they canned the NPC .
You realise that doesn't matter right? What actually matters is implementation of a product(s) that aren't loss making. NPC died years ago despite a handful of passionate supporters.
I just hope that the decision they make is a good watch as I haven't watched NPC properly in ten years
Good for you, less so for those of us who prefer the NPC. Plus, it's reliant on them making a product that is profitable, and maybe no product can be successful and separate from the top down structure of NZ rugby.
With this and Oz rugby falling apart I guess I need to find a new sport to follow:
NRL - fucking useless Warriors, I hate origin, it's not the 90s anymore.
AFL - I just don't get aerial ping pong.
Wendyball - I made my decision not to follow it at age 5 so no reason to change that now.
V8's - Holden gone, car racing isn't a sport, and I don't even like cars anyway.
Netball -Hmmm, long legged ladies in skirts, could be a contender.Yep. Rugbypass can give probably give access to more rugby in the NH that I would like to watch, but I also don't like watching the sports in your post.
I'd like to watch more European football, but I can only watch the competitions (e.g. Dutch Eredivisie, Italian Serie A) and teams (e.g. Ajax Amsterdam, AZ Alkmaar, AC Milan) I'm interested in via illegal streams.
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So, what is the best/ a good way forward?
High school footy seems like a potentially lucrative product to me, as long as the TV infrastructure can be set up, while moving all academies to Super teams is a likely move and probably a good one.
The key thing for me is having a Super competition that is engaging. I like pools where teams play against other local teams then there is a secondary competition that follows across borders (like a Heineken Cup).
That would mean (for example) a SA pool, Aus pool, NZ pool, Asian pool (including Fijian teams, for example), Japan pool, Argentinian pool, and potentially a North American pool.
We could have either 14 teams, of which some advance, or 5 or 6 Super teams, of which some advance. On that, it would be interesting to see the modeling, but my feeling is that there is an extra layer that needs removing for our population size - either provincial or Super teams.
My feeling is that younger viewers (i.e., >30 yrs) probably identify with their Super teams anyway, and these are established brands, so the only potential move would be to expand to 6 teams and try to get Harbour and and Northland as one team.
@gt12 said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
So, what is the best/ a good way forward?
High school footy seems like a potentially lucrative product to me, as long as the TV infrastructure can be set up, while moving all academies to Super teams is a likely move and probably a good one.For all the history of the NPC, in the modern professional era rugby supporters are going to have to come to terms with the fact that school rugby is the pathway to Super Rugby.
I was having this chat with Tony Brown just last year when he pointed out the best school rugby coaches are paid more than NPC coaches. He said that's the reality of it now.
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@gt12 said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
So, what is the best/ a good way forward?
High school footy seems like a potentially lucrative product to me, as long as the TV infrastructure can be set up, while moving all academies to Super teams is a likely move and probably a good one.For all the history of the NPC, in the modern professional era rugby supporters are going to have to come to terms with the fact that school rugby is the pathway to Super Rugby.
I was having this chat with Tony Brown just last year when he pointed out the best school rugby coaches are paid more than NPC coaches. He said that's the reality of it now.
@antipodean said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@gt12 said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
So, what is the best/ a good way forward?
High school footy seems like a potentially lucrative product to me, as long as the TV infrastructure can be set up, while moving all academies to Super teams is a likely move and probably a good one.For all the history of the NPC, in the modern professional era rugby supporters are going to have to come to terms with the fact that school rugby is the pathway to Super Rugby.
I was having this chat with Tony Brown just last year when he pointed out the best school rugby coaches are paid more than NPC coaches. He said that's the reality of it now.
My ears are ringing from that name drop, but is that fair dinkum? So they are employed now as a rugby coach only (not teaching too)
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@Hooroo said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@Stargazer said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
I'd be furious if they canned the NPC .
You realise that doesn't matter right? What actually matters is implementation of a product(s) that aren't loss making. NPC died years ago despite a handful of passionate supporters.
I just hope that the decision they make is a good watch as I haven't watched NPC properly in ten years
Good for you, less so for those of us who prefer the NPC. Plus, it's reliant on them making a product that is profitable, and maybe no product can be successful and separate from the top down structure of NZ rugby.
With this and Oz rugby falling apart I guess I need to find a new sport to follow:
NRL - fucking useless Warriors, I hate origin, it's not the 90s anymore.
AFL - I just don't get aerial ping pong.
Wendyball - I made my decision not to follow it at age 5 so no reason to change that now.
V8's - Holden gone, car racing isn't a sport, and I don't even like cars anyway.
Netball -Hmmm, long legged ladies in skirts, could be a contender. -
@Tim said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@Hooroo There is no one in Dunedin.
Be hones, there are nearly 130,000 people there. That's slightly more than Albany (100,000), and Whangarei (75,000).
You make a fair point though. Auckland Region has a third of the population (and growing). Add on 150k from Northland, and there's two franchises right there.
As for those saying the crowds would be terrible, how good would a harbour battle be each year... I think they missed a massive trick with those decisions.
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@gt12 said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
So, what is the best/ a good way forward?
High school footy seems like a potentially lucrative product to me, as long as the TV infrastructure can be set up, while moving all academies to Super teams is a likely move and probably a good one.For all the history of the NPC, in the modern professional era rugby supporters are going to have to come to terms with the fact that school rugby is the pathway to Super Rugby.
I was having this chat with Tony Brown just last year when he pointed out the best school rugby coaches are paid more than NPC coaches. He said that's the reality of it now.
@antipodean said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@gt12 said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
So, what is the best/ a good way forward?
High school footy seems like a potentially lucrative product to me, as long as the TV infrastructure can be set up, while moving all academies to Super teams is a likely move and probably a good one.For all the history of the NPC, in the modern professional era rugby supporters are going to have to come to terms with the fact that school rugby is the pathway to Super Rugby.
I was having this chat with Tony Brown just last year when he pointed out the best school rugby coaches are paid more than NPC coaches. He said that's the reality of it now.
Surely that should read "highest paid" rather than best. Simply being paid way over the top does not guarantee you are the best eg Tana at that Frog outfit, JK in Japan and Italy etc etc (Philpott in HB!!!!!!!)
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@antipodean said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@gt12 said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
So, what is the best/ a good way forward?
High school footy seems like a potentially lucrative product to me, as long as the TV infrastructure can be set up, while moving all academies to Super teams is a likely move and probably a good one.For all the history of the NPC, in the modern professional era rugby supporters are going to have to come to terms with the fact that school rugby is the pathway to Super Rugby.
I was having this chat with Tony Brown just last year when he pointed out the best school rugby coaches are paid more than NPC coaches. He said that's the reality of it now.
My ears are ringing from that name drop, but is that fair dinkum? So they are employed now as a rugby coach only (not teaching too)
@Hooroo said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@antipodean said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@gt12 said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
So, what is the best/ a good way forward?
High school footy seems like a potentially lucrative product to me, as long as the TV infrastructure can be set up, while moving all academies to Super teams is a likely move and probably a good one.For all the history of the NPC, in the modern professional era rugby supporters are going to have to come to terms with the fact that school rugby is the pathway to Super Rugby.
I was having this chat with Tony Brown just last year when he pointed out the best school rugby coaches are paid more than NPC coaches. He said that's the reality of it now.
My ears are ringing from that name drop, but is that fair dinkum? So they are employed now as a rugby coach only (not teaching too)
I was still sober while we talked. That's why I remember.
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@Tim said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@Hooroo There is no one in Dunedin.
Be hones, there are nearly 130,000 people there. That's slightly more than Albany (100,000), and Whangarei (75,000).
You make a fair point though. Auckland Region has a third of the population (and growing). Add on 150k from Northland, and there's two franchises right there.
As for those saying the crowds would be terrible, how good would a harbour battle be each year... I think they missed a massive trick with those decisions.
@nzzp said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
oroo There is no one in Dunedin.
Be hones, there are nearly 130,000 people there. That's slightly more than Albany (100,000), and Whangarei (75,000).
You make a fair point though. Auckland Region has a third of the population (and growing). Add on 150k from Northland, and there's two franchises right there.
As for those saying the crowds would be terrible, how good would a harbour battle be each year... I tnot that it matters, but Whangarei district is closer to 100k now (think $96k was last figure quoted)
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@nzzp said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@Nepia get into NFL and NCAA football - runs from September to Jan ... it's pretty sweet
That's no help for the rugby season months.
@Nepia said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@nzzp said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@Nepia get into NFL and NCAA football - runs from September to Jan ... it's pretty sweet
That's no help for the rugby season months.
it is compared to the NPC. NPC ran Aug-Oct; I think Sept-Jan is a fair tradeoff.
up to you, but if you want a comp that exactly dovetails NPC, good luck
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TBH, and apologies in advance at @Tim but I highly doubt that a Super team based in Harbour from the start would have made any difference to how things are going now. Auckland can't even run one competent team at the moment let alone two.
@Nepia said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
TBH, and apologies in advance at @Tim but I highly doubt that a Super team based in Harbour from the start would have made any difference to how things are going now. Auckland can't even run one competent team at the moment let alone two.
The first 8 years we were mostly fine. It's been the last 20 or so that are an aberration.
Plus, competition in a local market does wonders for focussing people's minds and making good decisions
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@Tim said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@Hooroo There is no one in Dunedin.
Be hones, there are nearly 130,000 people there. That's slightly more than Albany (100,000), and Whangarei (75,000).
You make a fair point though. Auckland Region has a third of the population (and growing). Add on 150k from Northland, and there's two franchises right there.
As for those saying the crowds would be terrible, how good would a harbour battle be each year... I think they missed a massive trick with those decisions.
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@Nepia said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@nzzp said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@Nepia get into NFL and NCAA football - runs from September to Jan ... it's pretty sweet
That's no help for the rugby season months.
it is compared to the NPC. NPC ran Aug-Oct; I think Sept-Jan is a fair tradeoff.
up to you, but if you want a comp that exactly dovetails NPC, good luck
@nzzp said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@Nepia said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@nzzp said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@Nepia get into NFL and NCAA football - runs from September to Jan ... it's pretty sweet
That's no help for the rugby season months.
it is compared to the NPC. NPC ran Aug-Oct; I think Sept-Jan is a fair tradeoff.
up to you, but if you want a comp that exactly dovetails NPC, good luck
I was meaning the whole rugby season in general in that post, if they turn the entirety of NZ rugby into some total 6 or 7 teams.
Obvious asterisk to that is if one of the teams is called Hawkes Bay, wear black and white and play out of McLean Park.
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TBH, and apologies in advance at @Tim but I highly doubt that a Super team based in Harbour from the start would have made any difference to how things are going now. Auckland can't even run one competent team at the moment let alone two.
@Nepia said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
TBH, and apologies in advance at @Tim but I highly doubt that a Super team based in Harbour from the start would have made any difference to how things are going now. Auckland can't even run one competent team at the moment let alone two.
It would have made a big difference, for rugby as a whole (investing in by far the biggest market) and it would avoided some of the issues that caused probems in the Blues.
A Super Rugby battle of the bridge would have retained a lot of interest that has now been lost over the past 25 years. Remember North Harbour was pretty strong back then too.
Factor in all the Auckland/North Harbour/Counties players playing around the country and it's even a stupider decision.
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https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=12312527
Does it mention asian people? They make up a lot of the school age population.
Does it honestly deal with the challenge of losing two major sponsors in a year? With no replacements announced ...
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@Nepia said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
TBH, and apologies in advance at @Tim but I highly doubt that a Super team based in Harbour from the start would have made any difference to how things are going now. Auckland can't even run one competent team at the moment let alone two.
It would have made a big difference, for rugby as a whole (investing in by far the biggest market) and it would avoided some of the issues that caused probems in the Blues.
A Super Rugby battle of the bridge would have retained a lot of interest that has now been lost over the past 25 years. Remember North Harbour was pretty strong back then too.
Factor in all the Auckland/North Harbour/Counties players playing around the country and it's even a stupider decision.
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@Kirwan NZ Rugby chose to discard its history and consumer passion. Astoundingly stupid and arrogant.
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@nzzp Auckland may have one third of the country's population but about one third of that is either of Asian (mostly Chinses) or Indian origin/ethnicity neither of which are all that interested in rugby (the Japanese aside)
@Higgins said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@nzzp Auckland may have one third of the country's population but about one third of that is either of Asian (mostly Chinses) or Indian origin/ethnicity neither of which are all that interested in rugby (the Japanese aside)
just be careful of sweeping generalisations. The lads who drew me into Eden Park (and are 25 year+ sesaon ticket holders) are indians; no reason the Rugby Religion can't sweep up folks from any ethnicity. Rugby's problem is more that it's hard to get into for damn near anyone, regardless of where you're from.
