World Rugby Board elections
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@junior said in World Rugby Board elections:
So, in that case, Charlie Piutau would have to move back to Nukualofa if he wanted to switch to Tonga?
I don't know where that is, but assuming it's in Tonga, then yes, absolutely, you should be resident in the country you choose to represent, unless you're playing club rugby only abroad
Surely that's a given?
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@voodoo said in World Rugby Board elections:
@junior said in World Rugby Board elections:
So, in that case, Charlie Piutau would have to move back to Nukualofa if he wanted to switch to Tonga?
I don't know where that is, but assuming it's in Tonga, then yes, absolutely, you should be resident in the country you choose to represent, unless you're playing club rugby only abroad
Surely that's a given?
Well, I think it's safe to say that 100% of the people we are talking about here would be residing and playing club footy in another country, so the residence thing is moot (at least in the case of the Islands).
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@voodoo said in World Rugby Board elections:
@junior said in World Rugby Board elections:
So, in that case, Charlie Piutau would have to move back to Nukualofa if he wanted to switch to Tonga?
I don't know where that is, but assuming it's in Tonga, then yes, absolutely, you should be resident in the country you choose to represent, unless you're playing club rugby only abroad
Surely that's a given?
Hang on, you're saying that for any international team, all their players should be living in the country they represent? That would completely change the face of rugby (and decimate most teams outside SANZAR and 6N (although I'd say even Italy would be heavily affected).
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It's a bit tough on Tongan players. Hard to play there and develop an international career. I can only think of a couple of tests played there in the last decade. Going back to tonga to start a test career might impact horribly on a players form. People need to put themselves in the shoes of the players with the passion to play the highest level they can and stop pumping the same excuses to protect the self interests of those calling the shots.
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@Bones said in World Rugby Board elections:
@voodoo said in World Rugby Board elections:
@junior said in World Rugby Board elections:
So, in that case, Charlie Piutau would have to move back to Nukualofa if he wanted to switch to Tonga?
I don't know where that is, but assuming it's in Tonga, then yes, absolutely, you should be resident in the country you choose to represent, unless you're playing club rugby only abroad
Surely that's a given?
Hang on, you're saying that for any international team, all their players should be living in the country they represent? That would completely change the face of rugby (and decimate most teams outside SANZAR and 6N (although I'd say even Italy would be heavily affected).
No, I didn't say that.
I said that if you're only playing club rugby abroad, then you're fine to represent whatever country you qualify for, be it birth, residence, whatever.
But if you choose to represent a country, then to them flip and play for another country, then some criteria must apply. And I think residence would be a great start.
Take the hypothetical bloke, born in Samoa, goes to school in NZ, plays 15 games for the AB's, then decides at 24yrs old to return to his village in Samoa.
We have decided that he should no longer be able to practice his profession at the highest level, because why? What's the reason why he couldn't play for Samoa after a period of stand-down? What arw we protecting against ???
It's insane to me
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And to be completely clear, I'm not the one trying to make it harder for guys to go back and represent the PI nations - most of you seem to be of the opinion that you "make your bed, now lie in it".
I'm putting forward the position that this seems way too harsh, and there should be some leeway.
Residency is just one way to meet somewhere in the middle.
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@voodoo said in World Rugby Board elections:
And to be completely clear, I'm not the one trying to make it harder for guys to go back and represent the PI nations - most of you seem to be of the opinion that you "make your bed, now lie in it".
I'm putting forward the position that this seems way too harsh, and there should be some leeway.
Residency is just one way to meet somewhere in the middle.
OK, fine. What about the other way around? Are you happy for the Bunce, Ieremia, Vidiri etc. scenarios to re-emerge?
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@voodoo ahhhh right, so it's only for those that want to change country. It'd basically never happen then (unless it's someone going from a T2 to a T1) but it's an interesting thought.
That 24yo returning to his village in Samoa isn't going to be playing rugby for a living. After 3-5 years he'll be a long way behind others that are.
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@Bones said in World Rugby Board elections:
@voodoo ahhhh right, so it's only for those that want to change country. It'd basically never happen then (unless it's someone going from a T2 to a T1) but it's an interesting thought.
That 24yo returning to his village in Samoa isn't going to be playing rugby for a living. After 3-5 years he'll be a long way behind others that are.
Yeah maybe. Who knows? But I don't see why we should (or could) stop someone who wanted to!
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@junior said in World Rugby Board elections:
@voodoo said in World Rugby Board elections:
And to be completely clear, I'm not the one trying to make it harder for guys to go back and represent the PI nations - most of you seem to be of the opinion that you "make your bed, now lie in it".
I'm putting forward the position that this seems way too harsh, and there should be some leeway.
Residency is just one way to meet somewhere in the middle.
OK, fine. What about the other way around? Are you happy for the Bunce, Ieremia, Vidiri etc. scenarios to re-emerge?
What do you mean specifically?
To clarify my position, I'm ok with different rules applying for guys going from T1 to T2 than the other direction. As I said earlier, it's important to understand what the rules are actually there for. Who or what are they providing protection for? If the ultimate goal is strong rugby sides around the world, then let's aim for that. If the goal is equal opportunity for all players then maybe that's a different story.
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@voodoo said in World Rugby Board elections:
@Bones said in World Rugby Board elections:
@voodoo ahhhh right, so it's only for those that want to change country. It'd basically never happen then (unless it's someone going from a T2 to a T1) but it's an interesting thought.
That 24yo returning to his village in Samoa isn't going to be playing rugby for a living. After 3-5 years he'll be a long way behind others that are.
Yeah maybe. Who knows? But I don't see why we should (or could) stop someone who wanted to!
I agree in that scenario, but what about the Tongan living in NZ who then decides he wants to represent NZ?
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@voodoo said in World Rugby Board elections:
Take the hypothetical bloke, born in Samoa, goes to school in NZ, plays 15 games for the AB's, then decides at 24yrs old to return to his village in Samoa.
We have decided that he should no longer be able to practice his profession at the highest level, because why? What's the reason why he couldn't play for Samoa after a period of stand-down? What arw we protecting against ???
It's insane to me
Other hypothetical bloke, born in Samoa, schooled in NZ, plays an 8 game season for Samoa and stars. Now he's good, he declares his residence in Auckland to make money for the ABs.
Fast forward 4 years, he's not the cream of the crop any more, and solid squad player (somewhere outside the 23). Decides to cash in, so moves to London, declares through a grandparent he's now English.
Still happy with that scenario?
Edit: or England come knocking dangling fat cheques in front of him while he's playing for NZ...
I don't like it. International sport is one country, with difficulties in changing for a reason
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@Bones said in World Rugby Board elections:
@voodoo said in World Rugby Board elections:
@Bones said in World Rugby Board elections:
@voodoo ahhhh right, so it's only for those that want to change country. It'd basically never happen then (unless it's someone going from a T2 to a T1) but it's an interesting thought.
That 24yo returning to his village in Samoa isn't going to be playing rugby for a living. After 3-5 years he'll be a long way behind others that are.
Yeah maybe. Who knows? But I don't see why we should (or could) stop someone who wanted to!
I agree in that scenario, but what about the Tongan living in NZ who then decides he wants to represent NZ?
Whats the issue with him doing that if he has met the qualifying rules?
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@nzzp said in World Rugby Board elections:
@voodoo said in World Rugby Board elections:
Take the hypothetical bloke, born in Samoa, goes to school in NZ, plays 15 games for the AB's, then decides at 24yrs old to return to his village in Samoa.
We have decided that he should no longer be able to practice his profession at the highest level, because why? What's the reason why he couldn't play for Samoa after a period of stand-down? What arw we protecting against ???
It's insane to me
Other hypothetical bloke, born in Samoa, schooled in NZ, plays an 8 game season for Samoa and stars. Now he's good, he declares his residence in Auckland to make money for the ABs.
Fast forward 4 years, he's not the cream of the crop any more, and solid squad player (somewhere outside the 23). Decides to cash in, so moves to London, declares through a grandparent he's now English.
Still happy with that scenario?
Edit: or England come knocking dangling fat cheques in front of him while he's playing for NZ...
I don't like it. International sport is one country, with difficulties in changing for a reason
That's obviously a reach, but I'm still actually ok with it. We live in an international world. No other business other than sport, restricts your rights to ply your trade like this. Fuck, even politics doesn't, though you might have to renounce citizenship or get rid of a passport.
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@voodoo said in World Rugby Board elections:
@Bones said in World Rugby Board elections:
@voodoo no huge problem, but I thought it's the kind of thing that we're looking to try and discourage.
But why?
Bahrain’s Olympic track and field team is composed primarily of runners from Kenya and Ethiopia, along with more from Jamaica, Morocco and Nigeria. The team includes almost no runners born in Bahrain.How some Middle East countries are 'buying' Olympic medals
Countries like Qatar and Bahrain have been spending millions of dollars to buy top African athletes and win Olympic medals.
Eunice Kirwa won a silver medal in Sunday’s women’s marathon. She, too, was born in Kenya, but transferred her eligibility to Bahrain. Including past Olympics, every medal ever won by Bahrain in the Olympics was by individuals born in Africa.
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@Bones said in World Rugby Board elections:
@voodoo because "T2" nations get fucked over! Who in their right mind is going to return to Samoa at 24 when they can go to Ireland and spend 5 years qualifying for Ireland while earning hundreds of thousands of Euro?
No no no!!!
That is the status quo! That their players leave to play overseas, first at club level then often at international level - I'm just trying to find some avenue for T2 nations to field their best teams! Why is it detrimental to allow quality players to return and contribute to their homelands at some point?
