P and all that jazz

SammyC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Paekakboyz" data-cid="558967" data-time="1455584666">
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That's an interesting post Cookie, I don't see anything overly edgy about class C and even some class B usage. Class A isn't edgy but it can be a much grimier scene. Actually I reckon the edgiest fulla in the thread is TR - how he dodged the ganja up north I'll never know! (tips hat). 
 
In my younger days it was about fun and new experiences - but looking back it would have been much better if we'd been adults before cracking into said product. That's why I'd rather we legalised most drugs, tax it and focus on education and associated health issues. Ripping the economy out from the gangs would be just one benefit if we took that approach. Having to find a balance between education and 'encouraging' use (esp for young people) would be a better situation than our current one imo.
 
Like I mentioned earlier if you are taking (any) drugs to hide or avoid something bad in your life it ain't likely to end well. But those tend to be the tragic cases that get attention while many recreational users who have successful careers, passions, families and friends are invisible.
 
NTA you can enjoy some pain if you owe the headhunters for that last tinny too - they might just take your powerwall!!
 
hmmmm . off the grid power??! Have you looked into hydroponics by any chance :whistle:
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Really sensible post.
 
Even Ice isn't anywhere near as bad as the media portrays it.
 
Has anyone on here read "chasing the scream" by Johann Hari?
 
It's an excellent look at prohibtion and addiction throughout the world. He asks why many people use drugs without any problems, yet some can't?
 
Anyway he comes to the conclusion that much of what we take as fact is not..... 
 
"Drugs are not what we think they are. Drug addiction is not what we have been told it is. The drug war is not what our politicians have sold it as for one hundred years and counting"

Crazy Horse

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="558987" data-time="1455592583"> 
Even Ice isn't anywhere near as bad as the media portrays it. </blockquote>
 
Spend a shift or two with those on the frontline and see if you feel the same. Sure some people claim to lead normal lives on it, but when it goes bad it goes really bad. A lot of the most dispicable human behaviour I have seen can be attributed to ice.

SammyC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crazy Horse" data-cid="558990" data-time="1455593590">
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Spend a shift or two with those on the frontline and see if you feel the same. Sure some people claim to lead normal lives on it, but when it goes bad it goes really bad. A lot of the most dispicable human behaviour I have seen can be attributed to ice.
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Well I know a few people who definitely living normal lives and who use it.
 
Successful lawyers, Accountants and Doctors, with family etc.
 
It's no different to speed, which has been around for a long time. 
 
Sure I've heard some awful stories about what people do on it....... but they are the long term addicts who may have had better access to treatment, rehab etc if it wasn't illegal.

SammyC

I kind of liken the Ice, P, Meth hype to what has happened in the USA with the "crack cocaine epidemic"
 
Crack and Cocaine are the same thing.. Crack however has a stigma attached because it's generally used by those at the poorer end of society. Cocaine is a rich white boys drug so less stigma.
 
There's been a bit of research done in the states... this article makes the point better than I can
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacobsullum/2013/11/04/everything-youve-heard-about-crack-and-meth-is-wrong/#5ae3e521e024'>http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacobsullum/2013/11/04/everything-youve-heard-about-crack-and-meth-is-wrong/#5ae3e521e024</a>

Tim

Sounds like you know a lot of people, SammyC ...

dogmeat

Fucking addicts of any type are annoying, boring twats whatever the substance.
 
Add to that sad, pathetic, desperate and dishonest.
 
You really, really don't want to add violent to the cocktail.
 
It could be the way their brains are hard-wired or personality traits but I've seen guys pretty much become hooked from their first shot - be it booze or something stronger.
 
In my younger days I'd try anything. Mate and I started smack at the same time. I never had any issues other than finding it a pretty boring drug.
 
He was locked up in Mt Eden within 6 weeks having been caught trying to knock off a furriers to finance what was already an addiction.
 
edit: Notwithstanding what I say about addicts - they deserve sympathy and assistance. Mate I reference did OK once he kicked his habit

SammyC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="dogmeat" data-cid="558996" data-time="1455594633">
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Fucking addicts of any type are annoying, boring twats whatever the substance.
 
Add to that sad, pathetic, desperate and dishonest.
 
You really, really don't want to add violent to the cocktail.
 
It could be the way their brains are hard-wired or personality traits but I've seen guys pretty much become hooked from their first shot - be it booze or something stronger.
 
In my younger days I'd try anything. Mate and I started smack at the same time. I never had any issues other than finding it a pretty boring drug.
 
He was locked up in Mt Eden within 6 weeks having been caught trying to knock off a furriers to finance what was already an addiction.
 
edit: Notwithstanding what I say about addicts - they deserve sympathy and assistance. Mate I reference did OK once he kicked his habit
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Agree 100%... but the facts are that it's only a small percentage that do get addicted.
 
Legalise things, make research and treatment plans more accessable for those who it does happen to.

SammyC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Tim" data-cid="558994" data-time="1455594500">
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Sounds like you know a lot of people, SammyC ...
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My friends are fairly representative of general society. You got anything else to add to this discussion?

Tim

I'm pretty skeptical when people on the internet claim to know so many people from such a small subset of society (respectable professional methamphetamine users with families).

SammyC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Tim" data-cid="559000" data-time="1455595211">
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I'm pretty skeptical when people on the internet claim to know so many people from such a small subset of society (respectable professional methamphetamine users with families).
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My point is that it's not a small subset.
 
Drug use is very common amongst young professionals with a bit of spare cash.
 
The guys and girls I know use a wide variety of drugs, Meth being one of those.

SammyC

When I say users, I should clarify that it's not a daily thing.
 
Mainly for recreational use, every now and then on the weekend.
 
Although I do know many daily pot smokers.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="dogmeat" data-cid="558996" data-time="1455594633">
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Fucking addicts of any type are annoying, boring twats whatever the substance.
 
Add to that sad, pathetic, desperate and dishonest.
 
You really, really don't want to add violent to the cocktail.
 
It could be the way their brains are hard-wired or personality traits but I've seen guys pretty much become hooked from their first shot - be it booze or something stronger.
 
In my younger days I'd try anything. Mate and I started smack at the same time. I never had any issues other than finding it a pretty boring drug.
 
He was locked up in Mt Eden within 6 weeks having been caught trying to knock off a furriers to finance what was already an addiction.
 
edit: Notwithstanding what I say about addicts - they deserve sympathy and assistance. Mate I reference did OK once he kicked his habit
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Heroin junkies in my experience are a pretty pathetic bunch, I had a flatmate that got into it after he moved out. I'm pretty certain at one stage he was selling himself due to the fact he looked about 13 when he was in his mid 20s , he has hep B now from sharing needles . He would do charming things like going around to a mates mums house, pleading poverty and turning on the tears and asking if he could do odd jobs or clear their section. One woman fell for this and gave him the key to the garden shed so he could use her gear to do the work, so the next day he stole her weedeater, lawnmower etc. 
He also convinced an idiot plumber I know to buy bulk of some plumbing product to make some drug i'd never heard of, they were both too stupid to know its a controlled substance and he'd ordered in one what would be a 3 or 4 year supply of the stuff for most people so he got a knock on the door from the boys in blue.

Crazy Horse

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="559001" data-time="1455595351">
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My point is that it's not a small subset.
 
Drug use is very common amongst young professionals with a bit of spare cash.
 
The guys and girls I know use a wide variety of drugs, Meth being one of those.
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Interesting. I have found drugs on people from all walks of life, but I never found ice on anyone other than a person on the downward spiral. Do you have any stats or links backing your assertion that many people lead normal lives on Ice? Anecdotally it does not appear that way to me.
 
Meth/Ice/P users all have a look that any Police Officer/Ambo/Doctor recognises, but one that I don't have the words to explain - almost like their body is eating itself and their soul knows it but can't do a damn thing. Often I look at a person's old mug shots chronologically and the change in their physical appearance is stark. Sometimes when I give a shit, it is heartbreaking.

taniwharugby

in my 20s I knew someone close to me (still see regularly now) who was a regular weed user and 'social' user of other drugs. HIs who demeanor wasnt right, he wasnt the person I knew, he was often easily aggravated, and the world was against him...when he was about 23 or so, he all but gave it all up, and the diffference in him was instantly noticablem I think he might have the odd toke of weed, but he is certainkly more 'normal' again.

Baron Silas Greenback

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="558998" data-time="1455594848">
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Agree 100%... but the facts are that it's only a small percentage that do get addicted.
 
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Fact? Really? Where is the research to back up your claim? Because I think it is complete and utter bollox.

Baron Silas Greenback

As I said I have worked in a couple of big cities in finance. I have worked and been friends with a wide range of people doing a wide range of drugs. Without exception, their lives were going in the wrong direction. Some faster than others. The very worst ones are the ones that try to convince themselves that they dont have a problem by using exactly the same arguments as SammyC.

NTA

Without exception? How big was your sample size, roughly? 
Good friends of mine are casual coke users who are stand up people, raising their kids responsibly and holding down senior corporate jobs. They're not "addicts" as such, though that depends whether you draw the distinction.

raznomore

I think i am removed enough now to understand my own drug use. Boredom. Not a general weakness in my self confidence or my feelings about myself. 
I had not at that time been in a bad relationship, been on the downward spiral or suffered from any mental illness. 
I was enjoying being young and experimenting. I was never a daily user but i used often, mostly when partying. I could have a good time simply drinking or nothing at all. The simple fact was i enjoyed the sensation of being on something. When life got serious and i needed to stop i did. 
I can not comment on too many other but my circle of friends all used and only one came out of it an addict. In that circle i had a friend that now heads up one of the biggest banks in AU/NZ, a surgeon, a policeman and a fireman. We all just had fun for a couple of years and then let it go. Addict mate works in timber yards mostly. Is still the same guy he always was but just didnt head in the same direction as everyone else. 
Would they have been as successful had they continued? I seriously doubt it but i dont think any of them are weak for having done some of this and some of that. 
Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk

MajorRage

I was looking at the (some sanctimonious) posts from people who have never tried any drugs and was thinking it was poor to take that view, until I realised that I hold that view on most Class A - heroin, crack etc, so it would be calling the pot the kettle black.
 
I've given a few things a go, and really enjoyed myself on the heavier stuff. Of course, I don't do it now (once in the last 10 years I think), but it's never bothered me what others do. Except for weed. I know that goes against the grain of it, but there is something about people that use weed a lot that really pisses me off. It comes down to a few things, mostly (like other people), experiences of being around those that partook. The thing about weed (in NZ anyway), that really pissed me off was that there seemed to some sort of necessity to turn into some sort of trashy lower class bogan when becoming a user. The ending of all sentences with bro, speaking slower, the ridiculous little giggle which suggests you are some sort of chilled-out-surfy mofo. And then of course, the need to talk about pot incessantly, like it's not only a drug, it's a hobby and a lifestyle. Denis Leary talks about it in some of his stand up, and he's bang on. I watched quite a few mates go down this path (I did grow up in Te Puke), and stuff all of them got through it.
 
Weed may have some sort of view as the drug to be the most tolerated, but it's the one that has taken the most people away from me (emotionally and intellectually, not physically).

gollum

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="558987" data-time="1455592583">
<div> "Drugs are not what we think they are. Drug addiction is not what we have been told it is. The drug war is not what our politicians have sold it as for one hundred years and counting"
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</blockquote>
 
Indeed
 
Ben Goldacre is sort of my go to guy for debunking bullshit in medicine & the press (Flat Earth News is a fantastic read) -
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.badscience.net/2009/06/this-is-my-column-this-is-my-column-on-drugs-any-questions/'>http://www.badscience.net/2009/06/this-is-my-column-this-is-my-column-on-drugs-any-questions/</a>
 
"In the case of cocaine, there is an even more striking precedent for evidence being ignored: during the early 1990s the World Health Organisation conducted what is probably the largest ever study of global cocaine use. In March 1995 they released a briefing kit which summarised their conclusions, with some tantalising bullet points."
 
he then lists all the findings, vasically most of the press is bullshit
 
"At the point where mild cocaine use was described in positive tones, the Americans presumably blew some kind of outrage fuse. This report was never published, because just two months after the press briefing was released, at the 48th World Health Assembly, the US representative to WHO threatened to withdraw US funding for all their research projects and interventions unless the organisation â€œdissociated itself from the conclusions of the studyâ€ and cancelled the publication."
 
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="559025" data-time="1455608899">
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Without exception? How big was your sample size, roughly? 

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I'm assuming he means "everyone I thought was stupid or a fluffybunny". So thats everyone.
 
Tho' he was working in finance. And was friends with them. So I'm leaning towards believing him.

The Silver Fern

P and all that jazz