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Billy Tell

And....bump.
 
Glad to see Dan's on board, but looks like nervous high school kid giving his spiel
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.facebook.com/nzflag/videos/10153951003712002/'>https://www.facebook.com/nzflag/videos/10153951003712002/</a>

taniwharugby

did find it somewhat ironic that Andrew Little is on the news claiming some National MPs are against the change of flag, given he all but censured some of his party for speaking out in favour of the TPPA....but hey, that's the wonderful world of politics.

TeWaio

Seems from the polls that the new one is gaining momentum as more people get used to it. 
Really hope we change it, living in the UK for the last 10 years you really see how Britain would struggle to give less of a f--k about NZ. That we still have their flag on our flag winds me up. 
The only counter-argument I can see is "this particular alternative is not what I, personally, would have designed" - which, to me, is missing the bigger picture.

Billy Tell

Will need at least a 10% swing in the next couple of weeks to have any chance. 
When I see some of the arguments or comments from the anti-change group I remember some of the things I really disliked about NZ. 
It's going to be embarrassing explaining to work colleagues why we kept a colonial relic. 
"Um, people don't like the PM"

No Quarter

I am going to vote to change it. Both flags are displaying outside my work and it looks 10,000 times better then our current one.

taniwharugby

Is funny listening to those not wanting a change bitching about DC and whoever else dares to speak positively about the change as being puppets of John Key...

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="559386" data-time="1455825507">
Is funny listening to those not wanting a change bitching about DC and whoever else dares to speak positively about the change as being puppets of John Key...</blockquote>
 
They should keep it up, history suggests that leftards behaving this pathetically usually pushes people towards Key/national . 
Rave away leftards, rave away .

Billy Tell

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="559386" data-time="1455825507">
Is funny listening to those not wanting a change bitching about DC and whoever else dares to speak positively about the change as being puppets of John Key...</blockquote> 
And getting money from Key...

Baron Silas Greenback

I started out pretty neutral, but now I am disappointed that the new flag looks like not getting over the line.
I have yet to hear one good reason why our flag should have another countries flag on it. 
I hear a lot of people supporting the new flag.. yet the polls show the complete opposite, sadly I believe the polls.

Hooroo

Agreed! I want the change and then if the thing is completely dated in time, we can change it again. In fact any standing government could just do so.

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="559391" data-time="1455827265">
<div>
They should keep it up, history suggests that leftards behaving this pathetically usually pushes people towards Key/national . 
Rave away leftards, rave away .
</div>
</blockquote>
I thought there were a sizable number of rightards opposing the flag change (RSA and other oldies) as well? 
 
I have no issue with DC having a personal opinion about the flag, same as I have no issue with Piri having an opinion on TPPA - no one has to listen to either of them.
 
At the risk of the right wing pitbulls going spastic on me like I'm a Muslim immigrant groping their wife's butt - I wonder if Key and the National Party balls'd this up politically. This seems to be an area where they should have gone all guns blazing to get cross party support (like Marriage Equality, anti smacking etc) - Labour were already pre-disposed to changing the flag so presumably with the right overtures they could have been convinced to throw their support in behind the flag change (and yes Labour would've needed to stop being dicks about it too).

antipodean

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Billy Tell" data-cid="559238" data-time="1455737833">
<div>
And....bump.
 
Glad to see Dan's on board, but looks like nervous high school kid giving his spiel
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.facebook.com/nzflag/videos/10153951003712002/'>https://www.facebook.com/nzflag/videos/10153951003712002/</a>
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Just reading the comments makes me think New Zealand shouldn't have a fucking flag at all. Whining fluffybunnies. Like this <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.facebook.com/nzflag/videos/10153951003712002/?comment_id=10153952446822002&reply_comment_id=10153952733392002&comment_tracking={"tn"%3A"R9"}'>Alex Ferguson fuckstick</a> who is unaware Facebook is no longer 'couple of dickheads sitting in a garage'.
 
Everytime I think I'd make a benevolent dictator I read social media commentary and realise I'd be a murderous tyrant.

Baron Silas Greenback

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="559456" data-time="1455841915">
<div>
I thought there were a sizable number of rightards opposing the flag change (RSA and other oldies) as well? 
 
I have no issue with DC having a personal opinion about the flag, same as I have no issue with Piri having an opinion on TPPA - no one has to listen to either of them.
 
At the risk of the right wing pitbulls going spastic on me like I'm a Muslim immigrant groping their wife's butt - I wonder if Key and the National Party balls'd this up politically. This seems to be an area where they should have gone all guns blazing to get cross party support (like Marriage Equality, anti smacking etc) - Labour were already pre-disposed to changing the flag so presumably with the right overtures they could have been convinced to throw their support in behind the flag change (and yes Labour would've needed to stop being dicks about it too).
</div>
</blockquote>
 
 
They did. Other parties were obviously not interested. The exact process followed was what Labour had as policy before last election.!

Baron Silas Greenback

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="559462" data-time="1455842606">
<div>
Just reading the comments makes me think New Zealand shouldn't have a fucking flag at all. Whining fluffybunnies. Like this <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.facebook.com/nzflag/videos/10153951003712002/?comment_id=10153952446822002&reply_comment_id=10153952733392002&comment_tracking={"tn"%3A"R9"}'>Alex Ferguson fuckstick</a> who is unaware Facebook is no longer 'couple of dickheads sitting in a garage'.
 
Everytime I think I'd make a benevolent dictator I read social media commentary and realise I'd be a murderous tyrant.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Jeez those comments are unbelievable.

Mokey

I hope NZ keeps its strong ties to the UK (I'm in favour of the Commonwealth and looking forward to the reign of King William as head of state) in trade, sports, tourism etc.
 
But we don't need the Union Jack on our flag. That suggests a dependence and parent/child relationship that just doesn't exist anymore.
 
And I completely agree with those who say the anti-change brigade seem to be more about hating Key. Sick to death of anyone making a stand for change being accused of Key worship. Fuck off. You can want to see a new flag AND dislike elements of Key's leadership. The two are not mutually exclusive.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="559456" data-time="1455841915">
I thought there were a sizable number of rightards opposing the flag change (RSA and other oldies) as well? 
I have no issue with DC having a personal opinion about the flag, same as I have no issue with Piri having an opinion on TPPA - no one has to listen to either of them. 
At the risk of the right wing pitbulls going spastic on me like I'm a Muslim immigrant groping their wife's butt - I wonder if Key and the National Party balls'd this up politically. This seems to be an area where they should have gone all guns blazing to get cross party support (like Marriage Equality, anti smacking etc) - Labour were already pre-disposed to changing the flag so presumably with the right overtures they could have been convinced to throw their support in behind the flag change (and yes Labour would've needed to stop being dicks about it too).</blockquote>
 
There aren't so many on the right making fools of themselves calling anyone who supports it a Key shill or inventing stupid conspiracy theories about how changing the flag makes the treaty null and void or it's to distract attention from the TPPA At a guess I'd say the leftards have those weirdos all to themselves . 
Puris welcome to tweet about he TPPA , I'm just as wrlcome to point out I think he doesn't really have a clue what he's talking about.

JC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="559462" data-time="1455842606">
<div>
Just reading the comments makes me think New Zealand shouldn't have a fucking flag at all. Whining fluffybunnys. Like this <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.facebook.com/nzflag/videos/10153951003712002/?comment_id=10153952446822002&reply_comment_id=10153952733392002&comment_tracking={"tn"%3A"R9"}'>Alex Ferguson fuckstick</a> who is unaware Facebook is no longer 'couple of dickheads sitting in a garage'.
 
Everytime I think I'd make a benevolent dictator I read social media commentary and realise I'd be a murderous tyrant.
</div>
</blockquote>
Fuck that is depressing reading. It seems like the stupider the person the more certain they are that they're right.
 
I don't much care about the flag and for that reason would probably just go with the status quo but I have to say some of these idiots' arguments are pushing me towards supporting a change. Except I suspect there are just as many loons on the "Don't change the flag" FB flag.
 
That's the problem with referenda, if you ask people what they think they might just do tell you.

Rancid Schnitzel

The anti-change brigade are an odd coalition of traditionalists who want to keep the flag that has represented the nation for over 100 years (I have sympathy for this) and people who probably want a change but hate John Key so much that they will fight it tooth and nail to defeat it (in other words not the principle, but the side, how unusual).
 
I don't want change just for the sake of change and IMHO the suggested designs are crap. (Proper) silver fern on black background or bust. But if people vote for change I won't go off like Nepia when the word leftard is uttered.
 
BTW, there is plenty of mention about "colonial relic". Considering the country is named after a province in Holland (Holland FFS), shouldn't we then officially change the name of the country? We already have a very nice alternative, although Christ knows what the Red Peak crowd would come up with.

Rembrandt

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="JC" data-cid="559476" data-time="1455844875">
Fuck that is depressing reading. It seems like the stupider the person the more certain they are that they're right. 
I don't much care about the flag and for that reason would probably just go with the status quo but I have to say some of these idiots' arguments are pushing me towards supporting a change.</blockquote>
 
Yep that sealed it for me. I'm yet to see a frothy mouth change supporter. my brother in law who is a reasonable rank in the army had to do a debate on it and was assigned the argument of pro-change. He started off against it but after actually doing some research is now fully for it. He did say he is by far the minority in there though.

taniwharugby

Education, similarly the TPPA, there is some gaps that needed filling, but then the frothy mouth anti-Key brigade wouldn't listen anyway...tell them they had won $10,000 and they'd think Key had stolen it from a bunch of homeless people!

The Silver Fern

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