'Super Rugby' 2021
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@Machpants It's not a matter of "deciding" to treat a PI franchise as just another NZ team, or not. It's about which rules apply to this team and what those rules say. It's a legal question, not a political one.
@Bones If only it was that simple.
There are some complex legal issues involved. Here are - for example - some of World Rugby's Regulations about clubs:
2.1.2 A Club or Rugby Body may only be affiliated to one Union and shall be subject to the jurisdiction of the bye-laws, rules and regulations of that Union. A Club or Rugby Body may only be affiliated to the Union within whose geographical boundaries its Home Ground is situated and shall only be entitled to play in Matches organised, recognised or sanctioned by that Union, unless specific approval has been given by both Unions. No Club or Rugby Body shall be entitled to change the location of its Home Ground or the name by which its senior teams are known, without the prior written consent of the Union to which it is affiliated.
2.1.3 A Club or Rugby Body that wishes to change its Home Ground to a location outside of the geographical boundaries of the Union to which it is affiliated must, before taking any steps to effect such a change, obtain written permission from the secretary of the Union to which it is affiliated, who in turn, subject to permission being granted by his Union, will seek the agreement of the secretary of the other Union.
2.1.4 For the purposes of Regulations 2.1.4 and 2.1.5, Home Ground shall mean the ground within the geographical boundaries of the Union to which the Club or Rugby Body is affiliated, at which the Club or Rugby Body’s senior team plays its home fixtures and which is approved by the Union to which the Club or Rugby Body is affiliated.
2.1.5 A Union may consent or direct that a Club plays a home fixture at a ground other than its Home Ground, provided such ground is within the geographical boundaries of the Union.
So that was about the clubs. This is what World Rugby's Regulations say - among other things - about (contracted) players:4.5.6 Only a Player who is currently Registered with a Union shall be able to participate in competitions organised, recognised or sanctioned by that Union.
USA Rugby is not a Union that organises, recognises or sanctions Super Rugby. It also isn't a partner in SANZAAR. So - even without those regulations about clubs - you'd have to assume that the players would have to be registered in NZ and subject to NZR's jurisdiction if the franchise is based in NZ.
So, hence my question, how can a team be based in NZ, but not be subject to NZR's regulations (jurisdiction). -
@Stargazer said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
I wonder how a team can be based in NZ but not be subject to NZR's regulations (including rules about eligibility) if they're playing in NZ.
I assume NZR could change its regulations; that would give them some power over what the PI franchise can and cannot do, though.
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Also, from that article:Instead, Atiga said Kanaloa Hawai’i would work closely with the Blues and had no interest in cannibalising the existing franchise.
“We're not going to come into south Auckland and take over anything the Blues have established.”
which seems to be contradicted by
Atiga also said there would be a completely separate staffing structure for Super Rugby, while players would come from four sources: existing players in New Zealand on the cusp of Blues selection, ...
Why just Blues' fringe players? It's not like they've got this ridiculous depth of talent at that level that the other franchises don't. Also, would the Blues even be happy to start offloading guys who are adding squad depth and who might develop into stars?
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@Stargazer however the 'available for ABs' rule is not within the bounds of that, it is an NZ invented rule that they can change easily. Or add that it does not apply to this team, give them an exemption. NZR has previously given players outside the 2 non ABs qualified Ann exemption to play in super rugby. They can give that entire team all sorts of exemptions. It's their comp they can do what they want with it
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I just don't get why you'd create a second team in Auckland to cater for only 15% of the population.
Instead of splitting it roughly 31% (plus Northland) to 69% if create a North Auckland franchise.
Let alone, how strongly repulsed I am by the thought of basically an NZ professional domestic team based on race.
PI based or nothing, for me.
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Tend to agree All this PI team chat seems to be pie in the sky nonsense
I'd much rather have more PI players in a TT comp in addition to World Rugby helping fund Tours to the PI
Get to stay with their family and wider community as well
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Australia will rebuff New Zealand Rugby's Super Rugby proposal and look to negotiate on an equal footing after sounding out Argentina and Japan on their interest in alternative models. Rugby Australia boss Rob Clarke has been exchanging emails with his NZR counterpart Mark Robinson but RA is expected to ignore a request to submit expressions of interest in the Kiwis' eight-team competition. "The expression of interest I'm not interested in and if they send it over I won't open it," RA chairman Hamish McLennan said. "If [chairman Brent Impey] and Mark [Robinson] want to chat with Clarkie and myself, I think next week's the week to do it." -
I have no problem basing a PI team in Auckland as it has many advantages over the team being in Suva, for example. The most obvious being the costs required for travel and logistical challenges in the islands. There are also a large number of PI players outside of Auckland, so limiting your player pool to only one city is a stupid move.
The other important point is that if Kanaloa Hawai’i is 100% funding this team then it is similar to Forrest and the Force in Aust. You add a team to your competition at no cost to the home RU. NZR aren't going to ignore that possibility.
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@sparky said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Machpants Six you include the Pacific side.
Not yet, they don't even exist. Pre season starts 4 or 5 months!
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Is it official that the SA SR sides have left the comp in order to supposedly join the comp in the NH???
Well good luck with that Because there is bugger all rigby being played here currently - and not even a sniff of it being resumed on the horizon.
Boris Johnson says large porting events with crowds can go ahead from November. Well I don't know what sport he is referring to - but it certainly won't be the likes of England v All Blacks. All vwery very quiet on the rugby front up here -
@Jailbreak7 Not at all. NZR has left the SR comp and, as pointed out by head of SARU, may well be liable for breaking contact next season. Obviously Force Majuere (sp?) Applies this year, may do next?
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@Machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Jailbreak7 Not at all. NZR has left the SR comp and, as pointed out by head of SARU, may well be liable for breaking contact next season. Obviously Force Majuere (sp?) Applies this year, may do next?
Good luck winning that in court with a pandemic in progress.
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@Machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Jailbreak7 Not at all. NZR has left the SR comp and, as pointed out by head of SARU, may well be liable for breaking contact next season. Obviously Force Majuere (sp?) Applies this year, may do next?
I thought the existing Super rugby format had one year to run, hence one last year of the stupid fucking conference system. Then next year it was going to be a “new” format. Maybe the new format/partnership hadn’t been formally create yet?
