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Baron Silas Greenback

I think alot of people are going to look back and regret being such petty tools about this. Those that have decided to vote based on a dislike of Key are just punishing themselves.

booboo

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="560989" data-time="1456462486">
So you're cool with the original process but not including red peak ? Agree , they should have been told to fuck off. 
I was thinking you were on the side of the no vexilogists on the commitee people. Because I mean the obvious person to go to for design advice is a bearded middle aged virgin somewhere on the spectrum isn't it?</blockquote>
 
Winger's got a beard?

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="561021" data-time="1456468888">
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The process wasn't really flawed. The big problem was the process cost $26 million dollars apparently, which all Key-haters decided was enough of a reason to immediately veto any interest in what was trying to be achieved & stand on some sort of moral soap box to shout their infantile rantings.
 
The only flaw in the process, was the addition of red-peak. As it showed the government as being a bit weak and influenced by the leftard community.
 
 
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Huh, the only flaw in the process was the flaw I highlighted but the process wasn't flawed???
 
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="561008" data-time="1456465310">
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Wow... so a process has to be perfect? Pretty high bar.
But like all left wingers who dont like the process, you seem rather vague of any serious issues with it.
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I know all you seem to come here is for shitfighting these days but I'll respond anyway - no I didn't say a process had to be perfect, I said it wasn't 'perfect'. The rest is all in your imagination.
 
Furthermore, I stated what my issue was - in a post directly responding to you - not vague in the least.
 
And further, furthermore for both you I want a flag change (as long as it's not Red Peak), I don't care that Key is pushing it through, and think that Labour should have backed it.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="561056" data-time="1456472137">
 
And further, furthermore for both you I want a flag change (as long as it's not Red Peak), I don't care that Key is pushing it through, and think that Labour should have backed it.</blockquote>
 
Labour have been hijacked by the alliance crowd and are disagreeing with national for the sale of it over pretty much everything, there's been decades of cross party accords over trade they just trashed with their stance over the TPPA . There was no way in hell they were ever going to get behind the flag change when the opportunity to give Key a bloody nose was there for the taking even if it was one of their own policies. 
It's sad and funny at the same time watching thrm tie themselves in knots trying find reasons why we have to keep the current flag , mind you a few months back they were posting a leaked list of Asian sounding house buyers names which they would have been disgusted by if Brash or Peters did the same thing .

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="booboo" data-cid="561054" data-time="1456471683">Winger's got a beard?</blockquote>
 
That's how I picture him

booboo

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="560995" data-time="1456464152">
 
I'm not cool that the dingbats didn't choose the silver fern (but that's just a personal opinion) but I don't care about vexiologists, but then again I hadn't heard the word before someone posted it in this thread. I don't think it was a perfect process before they added Red Peak but Red Peak ruined it completely because it wasn't the process.</blockquote>
 
I take it you're not criticing the process with that statement ... seems to be an example of i don't like the outcome so the process us wrong. But I'm sure that's not the case eh Neps?

MajorRage

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="561056" data-time="1456472137">
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Huh, the only flaw in the process was the flaw I highlighted but the process wasn't flawed???
 
 
I know all you seem to come here is for shitfighting these days but I'll respond anyway - no I didn't say a process had to be perfect, I said it wasn't 'perfect'. The rest is all in your imagination.
 
Furthermore, I stated what my issue was - in a post directly responding to you - not vague in the least.
 
And further, furthermore for both you I want a flag change (as long as it's not Red Peak), I don't care that Key is pushing it through, and think that Labour should have backed it.
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you called the process higgeldy piggeldy - i apologise for confusing this with you meaning it was flawed.
 
The process wasn't flawed. It became flawed because the government bowed to the leftards.

taniwharugby

haha now idiots think a One News poll showing 3/4 of people want the current flag means the Govt arent listening to the majority and will still change it, sadly so much mis-information over this means so many have no idea how the process actually works, and some probably dont want to, they jkust think its wrong.
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.facebook.com/BreakfastonONE/posts/10153889122032719?comment_id=10153889356442719&notif_t=like'>https://www.facebook.com/BreakfastonONE/posts/10153889122032719?comment_id=10153889356442719&notif_t=like</a>

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="561085" data-time="1456474437">
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you called the process higgeldy piggeldy - i apologise for confusing this with you meaning it was flawed.
 
The process wasn't flawed. It became flawed because the government bowed to the leftards.
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Now you're just getting into semantics. As for the first sentence, in the post of mine you quoted check out the last few words.
 
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="booboo" data-cid="561074" data-time="1456473685">
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I take it you're not criticing the process with that statement ... seems to be an example of i don't like the outcome so the process us wrong. But I'm sure that's not the case eh Neps?
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So, what you're suggesting in a round about way is that you can only have a problem with a process if you like the outcome? Good to know.
 
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At any rate I was criticising the dingbats (not BJ or Beatrice of course) who picked the 4, although TBF you have to give them credit for not picking Red Peak.
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MajorRage

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="561110" data-time="1456475754">
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Now you're just getting into semantics. As for the first sentence, in the post of mine you quoted check out the last few words.
 
 
So, what you're suggesting in a round about way is that you can only have a problem with a process if you like the outcome? Good to know.
 
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At any rate I was criticising the dingbats (not BJ or Beatrice of course) who picked the 4, although TBF you have to give them credit for not picking Red Peak.
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No I'm not - this is a very important point. The process wasn't flawed, it was fine. Then a bunch of sandal wearing dipshits said it was flawed, and created enough pressure to make it flawed. So when they said it was flawed, it wasn't. Then they made it flawed, at which point they said it wasn't anymore.
 
And the govt was proved correct when Red Peak sucked in the vote.
 
It was the equivalent of the RWC quarter finalists being sorted, and then World Rugby deciding because of England being the hosts, they should be in there, and reinstating them somehow. And then them getting drubbed and kicked out again.

No Quarter

I don't have anything to say about the process, as I'm really not sure what a "good" process for changing the flag would be. I haven't seen any good arguments against the process apart from adding Red Peak late in the piece, though that didn't end up impacting anything as fuck all people voted for it. 
When the process was first kicked off I was sure that we would have a Silver Fern on black and three others to choose from. Silver Fern on black is the most instantly recognisable "NZ" flag so I was very disappointed it was not even an option. I have no idea how it would have polled, but given how poorly 3 of the 5 options polled, I think there was room for our most iconic flag. 
Unfortunately I think my 2nd favourite sports team the All Blacks had a bit to do with that as quite a number of entries were discarded for copyright reasons. 
But I think what had an even bigger influence was anti-Key ferals doing everything they could to undermine the process. I don't envy those on the panel trying to gauge public opinion when you have to sift through so much completely vile crap. And I blame social media for giving them such a loud voice. As I said in the FB thread, I deleted my account years ago and am yet to have any regrets. 
I did hear rumours that it looked too much like the ISIS flag, but surely the panel was not influenced by the flag of a bunch of fucking loony sky-fairy believing fucktards on the other side of the world...surely...

JC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="561143" data-time="1456478757">
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It was the equivalent of the RWC quarter finalists being sorted, and then World Rugby deciding because of England being the hosts, they should be in there, and reinstating them somehow. And then them getting drubbed and kicked out again.
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Now that's the version of Invictus I'd like to see.

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="561143" data-time="1456478757">
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No I'm not - this is a very important point. The process wasn't flawed, it was fine. Then a bunch of sandal wearing dipshits said it was flawed, and created enough pressure to make it flawed. So when they said it was flawed, it wasn't. Then they made it flawed, at which point they said it wasn't anymore.
 
And the govt was proved correct when Red Peak sucked in the vote.
 
It was the equivalent of the RWC quarter finalists being sorted, and then World Rugby deciding because of England being the hosts, they should be in there, and reinstating them somehow. And then them getting drubbed and kicked out again.
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Trying to follow that gave me a headache. So many flawed's. 
 
I think, at the least, we agree that Red Peak shouldn't have been allowed to enter when they did. :)

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="561147" data-time="1456479535">
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I don't have anything to say about the process, as I'm really not sure what a "good" process for changing the flag would be. I haven't seen any good arguments against the process apart from adding Red Peak late in the piece, though that didn't end up impacting anything as fuck all people voted for it. 
When the process was first kicked off I was sure that we would have a Silver Fern on black and three others to choose from. Silver Fern on black is the most instantly recognisable "NZ" flag so I was very disappointed it was not even an option. I have no idea how it would have polled, but given how poorly 3 of the 5 options polled, I think there was room for our most iconic flag. 
Unfortunately I think my 2nd favourite sports team the All Blacks had a bit to do with that as quite a number of entries were discarded for copyright reasons. 
But I think what had an even bigger influence was anti-Key ferals doing everything they could to undermine the process. I don't envy those on the panel trying to gauge public opinion when you have to sift through so much completely vile crap. And I blame social media for giving them such a loud voice. As I said in the FB thread, I deleted my account years ago and am yet to have any regrets. 
I did hear rumours that it looked too much like the ISIS flag, but surely the panel was not influenced by the flag of a bunch of fucking loony sky-fairy believing fucktards on the other side of the world...surely...
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Now I'm just wondering who your favourite team is. :think:

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="561154" data-time="1456480622">
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Now I'm just wondering who your favourite team is. :think:
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The black caps?

jegga

taniwharugby

but apparently there are no endorsements of the current flga...only John Keys propoganda machine

booboo

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="561021" data-time="1456468888">
To those that argue that we shouldn't change because of respect to elders, past generations, war heroes ... I don't have a problem with (although I think your view is based perhaps more on emotion than fact). </blockquote>
Great post Rage. Can I just add the thought that the logic behind "our soldiers fought for that flag" is flawed. (Given we're into flawed processes tonight.) Our soldiers did not fight for the flag. They fought for our country, our way of life and our right to make these sort of decisions. 
And having thought a bit about the Red Triangle being added to the referendum. I've changed my mind. Adding it WAS the RIGHT decision. It was an option that (appeared to) have generated some passion and interest. On that basis it deserved to be added. Obviously it's perceived popularity was wildly overestimated and gross overstated. But it did come 3rd. So on that basis I think it was good that it was added to the list.

rotated

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="JC" data-cid="560913" data-time="1456451062">
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How would that have worked? If I had been asked "do you want to change the flag, yes/no" my immediate response would have been "why, what are you offering as an alternative?".
 
Without giving people an alternative up front voting yes to a change isn't making a choice, it's just rejecting the status quo. You'd have to have a real ideological dislike for the current flag to do that. While I'm open to the idea of a new flag if the right alternative is put before me I don't feel strongly enough to simply reject the existing one out of hand.
 
As far as I can see it had to be done this way round.
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An alternative question would have been "do you want to remove the Union Jack from the NZ flag" and you go from there. The reasons for changing the flag are not those simply on asthetic preference but the lack of distinctiveness and presence of the Union Jack (i.e. ties/subservience to the UK).
 
Almost all of the best and most distinctive flags came out of political committee or a design contest - not a public vote or a two stage plebiscite.
 
I understand what you are saying but now we are currently in a situation where it is essentially a beauty contest do you prefer the old flag to the blue/black Lockwood. We aren't getting to the heart of the matter which is "do you want to change the NZ flag". I want to change the NZ flag, but I think the Lockwood design is a mess - so I'm not sure what to vote there (likely will not)
 
The the white/black fern option is one of the least aesthetically pleasing silver ferns I have seen in my life. I would happily vote for a decent looking silver fern option (amongst many others) - but the fact that was the best take on the classic silver fern we could turn up in this process (as well as the prescence of utter nonsense like Blackjack in the final 40) could turn up leads me to believe that the process was pretty flawed.

taniwharugby

well I dont agree with that, as others have said, if you ask someone if they want to change something, they want to know what they are to change too, if you dont give them the option it is far too easy to stay with the status quo, even if you want to change...not to mention all those already suspicious this is a done deal already, how much more suspicious would that section be if you had no choice to start with, and then there would be those opposed to change would fuel that conspiracy angle too.
 
I think too many believe shite they read on social media than to be mature enough to make half a decision like that, they need to be babied through it.

The Silver Fern

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