'Super Rugby' 2021
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@akan004 he'd be waaaaay better by now if he stayed here, cos, you know, NZ
@taniwharugby said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@akan004 he'd be waaaaay better by now if he stayed here, cos, you know, NZ
True. If anything, his development has probably been accelerated as a result of moving to Australia. They tend to chuck more young players into their SR teams than we do due to having less depth. I think he would have had to wait a tad longer over here to play SR.
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@antipodean said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@KiwiMurph Convincing New Zealand to sanction its players playing in Australia will be a tough ask, but NZR is already funnelling players to Japan as a way of coping with the overseas player drain. It has been happening in an unofficial capacity for a number of years, with the likes of Taniela Tupou, Pete Samu and Sekope Kepu moving to Australia in search of opportunities.
So where's the benefit?
Isn't that the point?
The current crappy unofficial system means only non-nation tied players willing to flip nations move between the two.
So, there's no benefit to either.
Even the ARU having Pete Samu's wages paid by Crusaders and Ta$man for 3 or 4 years was of no use until they re-incorporated him into their own contracting system.
Daniel Braid playing for Queensland was of no use to the AB management.
@Rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
So, there's no benefit to either.
I see it differently: An erosion of depth from one to bolster another.
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@Machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
As long as they only get our left overs, I'm fine with it.
Until we need 20 replacements in a season and have to use guys dramatically out of their depth.
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I'm curious which Australian schoolboys have been poached by NZ.
Tiaan Tauakipulu went from NZ to Aust late last year.
@Bovidae said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
I'm curious which Australian schoolboys have been poached by NZ.
Tiaan Tauakipulu went from NZ to Aust late last year.
The Crusaders recruited a lock and a 10 a couple of years ago, and it warranted a thread.
Parata is playing for Ta$man and has a Maori surname so is probably more of a liberated schoolboy. The lock - who's name escapes me and who returned fairly quickly - was a genuine Ocker I think.
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@Rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
So, there's no benefit to either.
I see it differently: An erosion of depth from one to bolster another.
@antipodean said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
So, there's no benefit to either.
I see it differently: An erosion of depth from one to bolster another.
Yeah. But only if the current central contracting policies of the 2 unions remain as they are in respect to each other.
If Kepu, Toby Smith , Mike Harris, or even Jason Woodward move but have to commit to Oz as part if their contracts. It is erosion of depth.
If Jordie Barrett moves to Reds, gets a pay rise, but is still NZ available for NZ then there is benefit.
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@antipodean said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
So, there's no benefit to either.
I see it differently: An erosion of depth from one to bolster another.
Yeah. But only if the current central contracting policies of the 2 unions remain as they are in respect to each other.
If Kepu, Toby Smith , Mike Harris, or even Jason Woodward move but have to commit to Oz as part if their contracts. It is erosion of depth.
If Jordie Barrett moves to Reds, gets a pay rise, but is still NZ available for NZ then there is benefit.
@Rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@antipodean said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
So, there's no benefit to either.
I see it differently: An erosion of depth from one to bolster another.
Yeah. But only if the current central contracting policies of the 2 unions remain as they are in respect to each other.
If Kepu, Toby Smith , Mike Harris, or even Jason Woodward move but have to commit to Oz as part if their contracts. It is erosion of depth.
If Jordie Barrett moves to Reds, gets a pay rise, but is still NZ available for NZ then there is benefit.
If Jordie moved to the Reds does anyone really believe he'd get selected for the All Blacks?
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@Rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@antipodean said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
So, there's no benefit to either.
I see it differently: An erosion of depth from one to bolster another.
Yeah. But only if the current central contracting policies of the 2 unions remain as they are in respect to each other.
If Kepu, Toby Smith , Mike Harris, or even Jason Woodward move but have to commit to Oz as part if their contracts. It is erosion of depth.
If Jordie Barrett moves to Reds, gets a pay rise, but is still NZ available for NZ then there is benefit.
If Jordie moved to the Reds does anyone really believe he'd get selected for the All Blacks?
@antipodean yes?
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@Rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@antipodean said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
So, there's no benefit to either.
I see it differently: An erosion of depth from one to bolster another.
Yeah. But only if the current central contracting policies of the 2 unions remain as they are in respect to each other.
If Kepu, Toby Smith , Mike Harris, or even Jason Woodward move but have to commit to Oz as part if their contracts. It is erosion of depth.
If Jordie Barrett moves to Reds, gets a pay rise, but is still NZ available for NZ then there is benefit.
If Jordie moved to the Reds does anyone really believe he'd get selected for the All Blacks?
@antipodean why not? (though i wouldnt pick him, regardless. Most overrated bloke).
The draft idea seems dumb because it'll just drive players who dont like their draft pick to go to Japan or Europe. But opening up selection a bit might help a tiny bit.
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@antipodean why not? (though i wouldnt pick him, regardless. Most overrated bloke).
The draft idea seems dumb because it'll just drive players who dont like their draft pick to go to Japan or Europe. But opening up selection a bit might help a tiny bit.
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@antipodean said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
So, there's no benefit to either.
I see it differently: An erosion of depth from one to bolster another.
Yeah. But only if the current central contracting policies of the 2 unions remain as they are in respect to each other.
If Kepu, Toby Smith , Mike Harris, or even Jason Woodward move but have to commit to Oz as part if their contracts. It is erosion of depth.
If Jordie Barrett moves to Reds, gets a pay rise, but is still NZ available for NZ then there is benefit.
@Rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@antipodean said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
So, there's no benefit to either.
I see it differently: An erosion of depth from one to bolster another.
Yeah. But only if the current central contracting policies of the 2 unions remain as they are in respect to each other.
If Kepu, Toby Smith , Mike Harris, or even Jason Woodward move but have to commit to Oz as part if their contracts. It is erosion of depth.
If Jordie Barrett moves to Reds, gets a pay rise, but is still NZ available for NZ then there is benefit.
Totally agree. And this model takes pressure off the NZRFU who can offload a segment of the player's pay. It'd need to be managed carefully though.
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@antipodean why not? (though i wouldnt pick him, regardless. Most overrated bloke).
The draft idea seems dumb because it'll just drive players who dont like their draft pick to go to Japan or Europe. But opening up selection a bit might help a tiny bit.
@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@antipodean why not? (though i wouldnt pick him, regardless. Most overrated bloke).
Ignoring that you clearly haven[t watch rugby this year, because the coaching and player welfare isn't within the control of NZR. He wouldn't have an opportunity to play in a NZ derby.
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https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=12356524
Revealed: The ambitious, new Super Rugby bid
Liam Napier
The push to be included in the new-look Super Rugby competition has another interested party, with a new group lodging a formal expression of interest with New Zealand Rugby to be part of the 2021 competition. Liam Napier reports.
The Asia Pacific Dragons have launched an ambitious bid to join Super Rugby from 2022.
The Singapore-based Dragons, backed by Carinat Sports Marketing, are one of many groups to log formal expressions of interest with New Zealand Rugby as the local governing body attempts to stitch together an eight-to-10 team tournament from next year.
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• Rugby: South Africa Rugby issue warning to New Zealand Rugby over new Super Rugby competition snubThe Herald understands the Dragons are one of four separate proposals New Zealand Rugby has received for the potential Pacific Island franchise alone.
Others include the Tracy Atiga-led Kanaloa Hawai'i, an Auckland-based group led by former Samoan lock Mark Birtwistle, while the Fijian Rugby Union is also understood to have expressed interest.
The Dragons' bid would see them stage matches in Auckland and Singapore and they have support from Pacific Island figures including Fiji's Nemani Nadolo, Samoa's Tusi Pisi and Tonga's Nili Latu. Other than their Pacific connection, the Dragons believe they can help unlock the lucrative Asian market.
Former Highlanders loose forward turned Dragons director of rugby Hale T-Pole, who is also the Pacific Island Rugby Players' chairman, said the Pacific national teams - Tonga, Fiji and Samoa - deserve this opportunity to gain a foothold in Super Rugby.
"Everyone keeps talking about helping, but the reality is the national teams have only slipped back further in world rankings. That isn't right and it's at the detriment to all genuine rugby lovers," T-Pole told the Herald.
"Auckland is the most logical 'home' base, not only due to having the community that will benefit the most but also logistically as we have a strong presence and following throughout Asia - a market we see important in growing the game. We would therefore plan to have some of our matches throughout the region.
"Covid has enforced the realities that the Super Rugby model wasn't working or as commercially successful as was needed. We are now living in a new world with new opportunities, and new thinking.
"NZR and Rugby Australia needs to re-think and actually change their approach to working with private entities such as ourselves and people like Andrew Forrest. We've demonstrated that private investment in rugby is a good thing, and it is a necessity for professional rugby to survive and thrive."
The Dragons formed in 2011 and first competed against the likes of the World XV and English giants Saracens. In various exhibition matches, they have been coached by Tana Umaga and Pat Lam. Last year they competed in Global Rapid Rugby, the tournament established by western Australian businessman Andrew Forrest following the Force's axing from Super Rugby.
Given New Zealand Rugby's concerns about the competitiveness of the five existing Australian sides against the strength of Kiwi opposition, the Dragons' one win from four matches in Global Rapid Rugby could prove a difficult sell, but they appear confident their proposal is attractive, realistic and allows time to attract talent.
T-Pole acknowledged even without Covid there is no chance to have a sustainable commercial programme in place by January 2021, let alone a competitive squad to take on the quality of sides in a Super competition.
"Therefore our proposal is for a 2022 entry which allows everyone time to ensure recruitment, commercial preparations and all aspects are successful.
"We also feel that as the only bid that can realistically bring the Asian market to the competition right out of blocks, we open up that potential. We cannot see another NZ-based team being commercially sustainable if NZ is the core commercial market.
"The other five brands already find themselves in an extremely cluttered market so we feel any new entrant team must bring a major expansion market with them to be sustainable, but also bring value to the competition."
Six years ago, the Dragons missed out in their first bid to join Super Rugby with Sanzaar instead preferring the rushed, and ultimately ill-fated, Tokyo-based Sunwolves entry.
"We believe it is six years of learning for everyone, not just ourselves. And that was the crux of our initial discussions with NZR before making the submission. The key takeaway is patience, and giving yourself enough time to build the success.
"This new entrant must ensure it is competitive and bring commercial value to help build the best rugby competition in the world. This should be the mission for the new competition. A strong and successful Pacific Island team, with Pacific national team qualified players, will do wonders for their performances."
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exciting....no idea how likely any of it is...but exciting
I like the idea of lead ins for new teams...give them time to really build support publicly , gets the social media up, throwing around shade, get some anticipation going
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I think Covid will probably see the end of the Trans- Ta$man competition plans.
My guess is we will see SuperAU and SuperNZ followed by a two week finals series with the top two sides in each comp going head to head.
Given they need to lock in agreements with broadcasters in the next month or so, signing up to a format that involves a lot of TT travel looks like it will be impossible to do.
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I think Covid will probably see the end of the Trans- Ta$man competition plans.
My guess is we will see SuperAU and SuperNZ followed by a two week finals series with the top two sides in each comp going head to head.
Given they need to lock in agreements with broadcasters in the next month or so, signing up to a format that involves a lot of TT travel looks like it will be impossible to do.
@barbarian sadly I think you're right. It gives more time for NZR and AR to talk together, hopefully like adults, and sort out the future, too
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might not actually be a bad way to build back into this
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I am very much against basing a team anywhere with no local presence.
