'Super Rugby' 2021
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So this proposed Pasifika franchise being supported by Beegee Williams, despite being promoted to the contrary, can only take away from the already thinning depth of the five NZ SR squads.
They're saying they'll focus on bringing back European-based Pasifika players for 2022. Now given they're Auckland-based, commercially this makes zero sense as who is going to spring up out of nowhere to give them the money to achieve something NZ Rugby with much greater revenue streams hasn't been able to achieve over years and years? The only guys I would imagine they could afford to pay when competing with the Pound or Franc, would be guys at the end of their careers.
The other source of players - and the only one mentioned for 2021 - is fringe SR players of Pacifika heritage in the NPC. This only serves to undermine the five wafer-thin and increasingly youthful NZ squads.
They speak of developing Pasifika players in NZ. Sorry, but if they're worth developing they've already been identified and are in the system. Again, there's no undiscovered player well yet to be plumbed.
Lastly, this especially undermines the Blues, dividing their support base, further pressuring their development system and possibly costing them commercial partners.
Yuck.
@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
So this proposed Pasifika franchise being supported by Beegee Williams, despite being promoted to the contrary, can only take away from the already thinning depth of the five NZ SR squads.
They're saying they'll focus on bringing back European-based Pasifika players for 2022. Now given they're Auckland-based, commercially this makes zero sense as who is going to spring up out of nowhere to give them the money to achieve something NZ Rugby with much greater revenue streams hasn't been able to achieve over years and years? The only guys I would imagine they could afford to pay when competing with the Pound or Franc, would be guys at the end of their careers.
The other source of players - and the only one mentioned for 2021 - is fringe SR players of Pacifika heritage in the NPC. This only serves to undermine the five wafer-thin and increasingly youthful NZ squads.
They speak of developing Pasifika players in NZ. Sorry, but if they're worth developing they've already been identified and are in the system. Again, there's no undiscovered player well yet to be plumbed.
Lastly, this especially undermines the Blues, dividing their support base, further pressuring their development system and possibly costing them commercial partners.
Yuck.
Agree with this 100%
A terrible idea which has the potential to do a lot of damage but will add very little.It totally undermines our one advantage which is 5 strong super rugby teams.
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Throw in a definition of Pasifika too. Technically they are Kiwis.
"“Pasifika” and “Pasifika peoples” are terms used by the Ministry of Education to “describe people living in New Zealand who have migrated from the Pacific Islands or who identify with the Pacific Islands because of ancestry or heritage.”
OR:
Pasifika is a term that is unique to Aotearoa and is a term coined by government agencies to describe migrants from the Pacific region and their descendants, who now call Aotearoa home.I used those because that is the government definition.
So no Fijians either. Pasifika are supposed to be Polynesian, not Melanesian. Do we really want a racially selected side? Who qualifies? Born there? A parent from there? Had a week there on holiday? How brown do you have to be? We have been through these arbitrary qualification issues with international rugby and had Grannygate and suchlike.
Luring players back from overseas? Why did they leave in the first place? It might have been the money, not lack of opportunity? Or they might not have been good enough to make one of our existing teams.
Should we have a dentists of Chinese origin side? A pilots descended from Vikings side? Bass players from Wellington? Ex pats from Eastbourne who like Hummus?
Then add in dilution of talent as @shark says and you end up with:
Yuck.
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You'd think, if this ever was to work, that it'd have to be open to players of all ethnicities but with a strong Polynesian flavour. You couldn't make it officially a racially selected side when it's not even a national team, surely.
@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
You'd think, if this ever was to work, that it'd have to be open to players of all ethnicities but with a strong Polynesian flavour. You couldn't make it officially a racially selected side when it's not even a national team, surely.
Yeah, that sounds like a good concept. You could base it in Auckland where there is a large base of pacific islanders.
You could give it a name like “The Blues” or something catchy like that.
Would take about 25 years to build up a long history of great pacific island ex players though. -
Throw in a definition of Pasifika too. Technically they are Kiwis.
"“Pasifika” and “Pasifika peoples” are terms used by the Ministry of Education to “describe people living in New Zealand who have migrated from the Pacific Islands or who identify with the Pacific Islands because of ancestry or heritage.”
OR:
Pasifika is a term that is unique to Aotearoa and is a term coined by government agencies to describe migrants from the Pacific region and their descendants, who now call Aotearoa home.I used those because that is the government definition.
So no Fijians either. Pasifika are supposed to be Polynesian, not Melanesian. Do we really want a racially selected side? Who qualifies? Born there? A parent from there? Had a week there on holiday? How brown do you have to be? We have been through these arbitrary qualification issues with international rugby and had Grannygate and suchlike.
Luring players back from overseas? Why did they leave in the first place? It might have been the money, not lack of opportunity? Or they might not have been good enough to make one of our existing teams.
Should we have a dentists of Chinese origin side? A pilots descended from Vikings side? Bass players from Wellington? Ex pats from Eastbourne who like Hummus?
Then add in dilution of talent as @shark says and you end up with:
Yuck.
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@Snowy said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
So no Fijians either. Pasifika are supposed to be Polynesian, not Melanesian.
The two definitions you posted don't specify that Pasifika is a term for Polynesians only.
@Nepia said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Snowy said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
So no Fijians either. Pasifika are supposed to be Polynesian, not Melanesian.
The two definitions you posted don't specify that Pasifika is a term for Polynesians only.
Yeah that has me thoroughly confused. What have we missed @Snowy ?
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@Nepia said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Snowy said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
So no Fijians either. Pasifika are supposed to be Polynesian, not Melanesian.
The two definitions you posted don't specify that Pasifika is a term for Polynesians only.
Yeah that has me thoroughly confused. What have we missed @Snowy ?
@Bones said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Nepia said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Snowy said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
So no Fijians either. Pasifika are supposed to be Polynesian, not Melanesian.
The two definitions you posted don't specify that Pasifika is a term for Polynesians only.
Yeah that has me thoroughly confused. What have we missed @Snowy ?
That came from the Wiki definition and another reference which I could probably find again.
It’s not the point though. I don’t want a team based on Melanesian or Polynesian, or Caucasian or any thing else heritage.
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@Bones said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Nepia said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Snowy said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
So no Fijians either. Pasifika are supposed to be Polynesian, not Melanesian.
The two definitions you posted don't specify that Pasifika is a term for Polynesians only.
Yeah that has me thoroughly confused. What have we missed @Snowy ?
That came from the Wiki definition and another reference which I could probably find again.
It’s not the point though. I don’t want a team based on Melanesian or Polynesian, or Caucasian or any thing else heritage.
@Snowy said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
I don’t want a team based on Melanesian or Polynesian, or Caucasian or any thing else heritage.
Agreed. We're in the 21st century.
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@mofitzy_ said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
A Pasifika team only makes sense if they are based in Suva or Honolulu etc.
Well considering about half of the Tongan and Samoan RWC squads (their most recent) were born outside of Tonga, mostly in NZ, not counting those that moved to NZ as kids, it’s a bit of a moot point!
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@mofitzy_ said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
A Pasifika team only makes sense if they are based in Suva or Honolulu etc.
Well considering about half of the Tongan and Samoan RWC squads (their most recent) were born outside of Tonga, mostly in NZ, not counting those that moved to NZ as kids, it’s a bit of a moot point!
@Machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@mofitzy_ said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
A Pasifika team only makes sense if they are based in Suva or Honolulu etc.
Well considering about half of the Tongan and Samoan RWC squads (their most recent) were born outside of Tonga, mostly in NZ, not counting those that moved to NZ as kids, it’s a bit of a moot point!
That was my point about the definition of Pasifika.
They actually have to be Kiwis (according to the government) and of Polynesian origin to qualify. You are not Pasifika if you are actually on one of the Polynesian islands. NZ must be your home. Which ignores the fact that NZ are Pacific islands.
The whole thing is bollocks. -
A Pasifika franchise based in Auckland sends a message (to me) that NZers of PI origin are not really even expected to be Aucklanders?
I'm a honky, maybe I'm too sensitive. London Irish etc exists. Although on the flip side in soccer Sydney Croatia and Melbourne Hellenic etc got their heritage stripped in the late NSL days. I'm more influenced by that. But none of these examples are creating 2 teams in one city, they were just one of a proliferation of clubs in those cities.
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A Pasifika franchise based in Auckland sends a message (to me) that NZers of PI origin are not really even expected to be Aucklanders?
I'm a honky, maybe I'm too sensitive. London Irish etc exists. Although on the flip side in soccer Sydney Croatia and Melbourne Hellenic etc got their heritage stripped in the late NSL days. I'm more influenced by that. But none of these examples are creating 2 teams in one city, they were just one of a proliferation of clubs in those cities.
@Rapido You’ve got London Irish, London Welsh, it’s pretty common in big metro cities to have sides that are around outside cultures. But they are mostly (all?) just names.
I agree that a Pacific Side needs to be in the pacific, otherwise it is just a drain on our depth and a glorified 6th NZ (or Oz) team.
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maybe the Pacific team should be based in the pacific except for maybe a blues game where they could play in auckland, purely because they might get a huge crowd? one home game played away like the saders and chiefs did
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Pacific Islanders in Auckland already have a Super Rugby team to support; the Blues.
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Pacific Islanders in Auckland already have a Super Rugby team to support; the Blues.
@antipodean said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Pacific Islanders in Auckland already have a Super Rugby team to support; the Blues.
i think the idea would be that, this year aside, the blues haven't had the fan turnout that might be expected for such a large population, both Pacific Islanders and non, and this might be a way to attract those that haven't been attracted before
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@antipodean said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Pacific Islanders in Auckland already have a Super Rugby team to support; the Blues.
i think the idea would be that, this year aside, the blues haven't had the fan turnout that might be expected for such a large population, both Pacific Islanders and non, and this might be a way to attract those that haven't been attracted before
@Kiwiwomble People weren't turning up because they were sick of seeing the Blues snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Adding a less competitive team won't fix that.
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@Kiwiwomble People weren't turning up because they were sick of seeing the Blues snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Adding a less competitive team won't fix that.
@antipodean said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Kiwiwomble People weren't turning up because they were sick of seeing the Blues snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Adding a less competitive team won't fix that.
i dont know for sure, but lots of other sports manage to get big turnouts for teams not doing well, "support you're team do or die stuff"
