Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11
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@KiwiMurph he was already the best ever AB 10, playing in a team stuffed with GOATs in their position, captained by McGod. Who couldn't organize a DG for toffee 5 years before in Cardiff
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@ACT-Crusader said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@KiwiMurph said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
Didn't Carter nail a last minute drop goal in the wet in Wellington vs Ireland in 2008?
Not in that test.
DC 8 droppies in 112 tests.
Goes to show we aren't DG exponents if the GOAT AB 10 has only taken 8 of them in 112 tests. What chance did Moounga have? Don't get me wrong, I am not excusing his flat game
@canefan said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@ACT-Crusader said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@KiwiMurph said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
Didn't Carter nail a last minute drop goal in the wet in Wellington vs Ireland in 2008?
Not in that test.
DC 8 droppies in 112 tests.
Goes to show we aren't DG exponents if the GOAT AB 10 has only taken 8 of them in 112 tests. What chance did Moounga have? Don't get me wrong, I am not excusing his flat game
He’s attempted more than 8, but not that many more!
I remember the first test match he nailed one, after all the talk following the 07 QF, it was against the Boks in 08 at Carisbrook. ABs lost.
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Yip I remember that one. It was solidly applauded and I thought at the time it was a massive cop out from any one cheering a droppie because we all usually booed and hissed when someone even attempted and missed vs us. As if it was the ponsiest thing ever. And here we were cheering.
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3 years now, same shit.
ABs need some news eyes and ideas. I've no doubt it's wholly professional and determined in that camp but the tactics on the day, ( non rush defence, going wide so much, playing to win with little ball), haven't changed in a few seasons now. Stagnated perhaps.
It's like there's only one way to play and by hook or by crook we're going to persevere until it all falls into place.
We're rather uninspiring of lateAll a bit disappointing, but hang on it's only the first, so give them a chance.
Christ, all I can think about is Foster's successes and innovations achieved over his long coaching career...
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3 years now, same shit.
ABs need some news eyes and ideas. I've no doubt it's wholly professional and determined in that camp but the tactics on the day, ( non rush defence, going wide so much, playing to win with little ball), haven't changed in a few seasons now. Stagnated perhaps.
It's like there's only one way to play and by hook or by crook we're going to persevere until it all falls into place.
We're rather uninspiring of lateAll a bit disappointing, but hang on it's only the first, so give them a chance.
Christ, all I can think about is Foster's successes and innovations achieved over his long coaching career...
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@raznomore said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@canefan I would never wish for a losing season but it is the fastest way to get new coaches..
It’s one game Raz calm the hell down...
I can't recall an AB coach ever being fired while on contract before. Contract not renewed is different...
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Its early days, but Hansen took positive things from GHs tenure and built on that while adding things of his own. Of course, having McCaw, DC, Nonu, Snake, Kev, Kaino, and all the rest of those great players helped. It remains to be seen if Fozzie was just a good soldier or if he can move things onward and upwards. I hope he can for all our sakes
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@junior said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@canefan said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@junior said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@chimoaus said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@ACT-Crusader He basically walks up to the ruck, puts his hand on top of the wallaby then casually walks away. The next drive the ruck is directly under the posts. Its at this stage he should be demanding the ball to throw it over. WTF is he even doing at the ruck. The rest of the backline are out waiting.
That last shot of the 4 (bottom right) is quite telling - look at the space behind the ruck, right in front of the posts, basically the perfect spot for him to casually knock it over.
Like our failure in 2007 it has to be a failure of the onfield leadership group, its not up to Richie to call his own number
I don't disagree that there needs to be some collective accountability. However, by the same token, if your 10 does not have the nous or courage to make the big call in that situation, and more importantly put himself in a position to be the match winner, you have to wonder whether he has the temperament for test footy.
I kind of agree. But over our history I don't recall many instances where our 10 slots a DG in that situation. Merhts is the only other who I can recall and he missed his chance
@canefan said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@junior said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@canefan said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@junior said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@chimoaus said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@ACT-Crusader He basically walks up to the ruck, puts his hand on top of the wallaby then casually walks away. The next drive the ruck is directly under the posts. Its at this stage he should be demanding the ball to throw it over. WTF is he even doing at the ruck. The rest of the backline are out waiting.
That last shot of the 4 (bottom right) is quite telling - look at the space behind the ruck, right in front of the posts, basically the perfect spot for him to casually knock it over.
Like our failure in 2007 it has to be a failure of the onfield leadership group, its not up to Richie to call his own number
I don't disagree that there needs to be some collective accountability. However, by the same token, if your 10 does not have the nous or courage to make the big call in that situation, and more importantly put himself in a position to be the match winner, you have to wonder whether he has the temperament for test footy.
I kind of agree. But over our history I don't recall many instances where our 10 slots a DG in that situation. Merhts is the only other who I can recall and he missed his chance
DC did it plenty of times
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@canefan said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@junior said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@canefan said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@junior said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@chimoaus said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@ACT-Crusader He basically walks up to the ruck, puts his hand on top of the wallaby then casually walks away. The next drive the ruck is directly under the posts. Its at this stage he should be demanding the ball to throw it over. WTF is he even doing at the ruck. The rest of the backline are out waiting.
That last shot of the 4 (bottom right) is quite telling - look at the space behind the ruck, right in front of the posts, basically the perfect spot for him to casually knock it over.
Like our failure in 2007 it has to be a failure of the onfield leadership group, its not up to Richie to call his own number
I don't disagree that there needs to be some collective accountability. However, by the same token, if your 10 does not have the nous or courage to make the big call in that situation, and more importantly put himself in a position to be the match winner, you have to wonder whether he has the temperament for test footy.
I kind of agree. But over our history I don't recall many instances where our 10 slots a DG in that situation. Merhts is the only other who I can recall and he missed his chance
DC did it plenty of times
@junior said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@canefan said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@junior said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@canefan said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@junior said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@chimoaus said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@ACT-Crusader He basically walks up to the ruck, puts his hand on top of the wallaby then casually walks away. The next drive the ruck is directly under the posts. Its at this stage he should be demanding the ball to throw it over. WTF is he even doing at the ruck. The rest of the backline are out waiting.
That last shot of the 4 (bottom right) is quite telling - look at the space behind the ruck, right in front of the posts, basically the perfect spot for him to casually knock it over.
Like our failure in 2007 it has to be a failure of the onfield leadership group, its not up to Richie to call his own number
I don't disagree that there needs to be some collective accountability. However, by the same token, if your 10 does not have the nous or courage to make the big call in that situation, and more importantly put himself in a position to be the match winner, you have to wonder whether he has the temperament for test footy.
I kind of agree. But over our history I don't recall many instances where our 10 slots a DG in that situation. Merhts is the only other who I can recall and he missed his chance
DC did it plenty of times
Define plenty
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@NTA said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
I've calmed down a bit now, having had to go pay $430 to get my daughter's macbook fixed after she spilled water on it last week.
That whole process - forking out money to Apple :angry_face: - was more enjoyable than watching Williams referee.
And before you get going: I completed my field test with NSW Rugby and am an accredited ref so I come from a position of knowledge on this. So... yeah... suck my balls all of you armchair fucking refs
As an introductory note: how AFG missed that foot on the line will forever be a mystery. You make a living out of this Angus. The lines are nice and straight. Stick your fucking flag up. Does it make some kind of cosmic justice thing when Ioane refuses to mess up his hair while dropping the ball later? No. It does not.
Some refs - a lot of the French ones - just let players sort it out, mostly. Sometimes that can looks weird, but then they make a decision and you figure they're just keeping the threshold for intervention high i.e. they don't want to be the star attraction. Sometimes the decision made is a head scratcher but you sort of accept French people are weird and move on.
Williams tends to avoid decisions whenever he can - even when it is blindingly obvious that a decision needs to be made. In the first half Mounga gets rid of the ball and a full second later Wilson absolutely clatters him - right in front. Williams sort of puts his arm out and then does nothing. Just gets on with things. Multiple tackles from both teams go high - not dangerously so, but potential for escalation which should be ruled on early to set a marker - and he does nothing.
He rightly pings Tupou for being a shitwit at ruck time (twice
) because it is well past the back of the ruck when he finishes trying to piss off Aaron Smith (a noble pursuit). But I counted at least three times for each team where a cleanout happened from the side of the ruck and did zero.Penalises Koroibete for going off his feet when no AB was contesting the ball, then lets it go for another Wallaby player in the same situation and says nobody was contesting the ball
Of course, there are the big ones - the biggest of which is probably the two scrums later in the second half where Alalaatoa hands out a complete reaming to Karl T (who packed at an angle, pushed at an angle, and got folded into an angle on the ground), and tells the Wobs "you're not getting it", then does Sio for exactly the same thing at the next scrum. What were the fucking ARs doing while Alalaatoa was introducing Big Karl's forehead to the turf?
I'd love to be a fly on the wall at the referee review. It isn't easy - I know that from personal experience even at my gumby level of refereeing. But there are head scratchers and then there is out and out inconsistency that leads to incompetence.
EDIT: oh and the 2 short arms against Australia for going early at scrum time? Every fucking ref knows that the second one is a penalty you tit.
Oh no! A new amateur ref who suddenly thinks he knows it all. The worst kind of armchair commentator!
@Hooroo said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@NTA said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
I've calmed down a bit now, having had to go pay $430 to get my daughter's macbook fixed after she spilled water on it last week.
That whole process - forking out money to Apple :angry_face: - was more enjoyable than watching Williams referee.
And before you get going: I completed my field test with NSW Rugby and am an accredited ref so I come from a position of knowledge on this. So... yeah... suck my balls all of you armchair fucking refs
As an introductory note: how AFG missed that foot on the line will forever be a mystery. You make a living out of this Angus. The lines are nice and straight. Stick your fucking flag up. Does it make some kind of cosmic justice thing when Ioane refuses to mess up his hair while dropping the ball later? No. It does not.
Some refs - a lot of the French ones - just let players sort it out, mostly. Sometimes that can looks weird, but then they make a decision and you figure they're just keeping the threshold for intervention high i.e. they don't want to be the star attraction. Sometimes the decision made is a head scratcher but you sort of accept French people are weird and move on.
Williams tends to avoid decisions whenever he can - even when it is blindingly obvious that a decision needs to be made. In the first half Mounga gets rid of the ball and a full second later Wilson absolutely clatters him - right in front. Williams sort of puts his arm out and then does nothing. Just gets on with things. Multiple tackles from both teams go high - not dangerously so, but potential for escalation which should be ruled on early to set a marker - and he does nothing.
He rightly pings Tupou for being a shitwit at ruck time (twice
) because it is well past the back of the ruck when he finishes trying to piss off Aaron Smith (a noble pursuit). But I counted at least three times for each team where a cleanout happened from the side of the ruck and did zero.Penalises Koroibete for going off his feet when no AB was contesting the ball, then lets it go for another Wallaby player in the same situation and says nobody was contesting the ball
Of course, there are the big ones - the biggest of which is probably the two scrums later in the second half where Alalaatoa hands out a complete reaming to Karl T (who packed at an angle, pushed at an angle, and got folded into an angle on the ground), and tells the Wobs "you're not getting it", then does Sio for exactly the same thing at the next scrum. What were the fucking ARs doing while Alalaatoa was introducing Big Karl's forehead to the turf?
I'd love to be a fly on the wall at the referee review. It isn't easy - I know that from personal experience even at my gumby level of refereeing. But there are head scratchers and then there is out and out inconsistency that leads to incompetence.
EDIT: oh and the 2 short arms against Australia for going early at scrum time? Every fucking ref knows that the second one is a penalty you tit.
Oh no! A new amateur ref who suddenly thinks he knows it all. The worst kind of armchair commentator!
The patron saint of whom is Sir Brian Moore!
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Went in to the game and took my four year daughter. Was a great atmosphere and the extra minutes at the end just added to the experience. Will have to watch the game again this week as you miss so much at the game. Best part was some drunk lady distracted my daughter for most of the game so I actually got to watch most of it.
Couple of things on the game (though won't stand by them too closely until I've rewatched it).
Backs
DMac looked a lot better here than he did for the Chiefs. I'd still rather see one of the Barretts there but was good to see him get some form back.Jordie is way to pedestrian for wing. There was one point early in the first half where he appeared to be trying to run through quick sand.
Will be interesting to watch Reiko. He appeared to fuck up by not passing to Jordie at one stage and hogged the ball instead. And dropping the ball like he did is embarrassing and effectively lost us the game. I really wish that he'd go back to being the worlds best winger.
Bridge is so impotent. Really doesn't seem to offer much. Though that was a sweet pass that lead to Smith's try.
R'Mo looked below test level standard. Looked indecisive at times and seemed to have no confidence in the end to demand they set up for a droppie. Might be a while before he finds his feet at test level.
Ardie was no where near a test standard 8. I've got no idea why Foster (other than Foster is a fuckwit) picks two sevens in his starting trio and asks one of them to play like a big bopper 8. Sevens work best when they have constant interactions in the game.
Cane was awesome and hit attackers like a truck. Though his first game as captain had a real 2020 Chiefs feel to it.
I thought Frizell went OK. He tackled well and it's not his fault the loose forward mix is out.
Moody tackled well and Ofa hit hard but fell off a few tackles. Cody appeared to carry on his average 2019 form.
Rennie 'out coached' Foster. The OZ first half was excellent as they more often than not would have been playing into the swirling breeze. I think a stat popped up at halftime that OZ had 70% possession and territory which is clever rugby in those conditions.
Not much to say about the Wallabies other than well done and they probably deserved to win the game. I think an area they can make good improvement in is their accuracy at the breakdown. The amount of times the AB's managed to get a turnover or penalty after a Wallaby went flying/crashing over the ruck instead of actually clearing out was hilarious. Lucky for the AB's too as it meant the Wallabies couldn't build enough pressure.
Looking forward to catching this on TV and revising my opinions.
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@chimoaus said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@ACT-Crusader He basically walks up to the ruck, puts his hand on top of the wallaby then casually walks away. The next drive the ruck is directly under the posts. Its at this stage he should be demanding the ball to throw it over. WTF is he even doing at the ruck. The rest of the backline are out waiting.
That last shot of the 4 (bottom right) is quite telling - look at the space behind the ruck, right in front of the posts, basically the perfect spot for him to casually knock it over.
@junior said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@chimoaus said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@ACT-Crusader He basically walks up to the ruck, puts his hand on top of the wallaby then casually walks away. The next drive the ruck is directly under the posts. Its at this stage he should be demanding the ball to throw it over. WTF is he even doing at the ruck. The rest of the backline are out waiting.
That last shot of the 4 (bottom right) is quite telling - look at the space behind the ruck, right in front of the posts, basically the perfect spot for him to casually knock it over.
How would you expect the AB's to setup for a drop goal?
My expectation would be for them to try and drive around the fringes 4-5 times to suck in defenders while half back and kicker/kickers got into position. None of this was happening - blaming Mo'unga when the team were clearly not trying to get into position for a drop kick attempt would appear disingenious.
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Great match for the unencumbered
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Sparky's blame game
1.NZR for choosing Ian Foster as Head Coach. There were other better options available: Razor, Jamie Joseph, Dave Rennie. They went with Foster as a "job for the boys" pick. Today our team was comprehensively outcoached.
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Ian Foster for creating a safety-first culture within the ABs. The All Blacks should be expected to win every match. Foster set up his team not to lose.
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Foster, Fox and Plumtree for selecting a number of players who were tried and found wanting in the last World Cup cycle. Young talent like Hoskins Sotutu, Caleb Clarke and Will Jordan should have started. No more selecting a team of your pals, select a team to win.
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Reiko Ioane. Know your history and learn from this. Showboating is not part of the All Blacks game. Could have been a great try. Go watch the tapes of Grant Batty, Bryan Williams, John Kirwan, Jonah Lomu and Doug Howlett scoring tries. Put the ball down with two hands carefully, then jog back to the middle.
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Richie Mo'unga. Know you history and learn from this. We lost in Cardiff in 07 and drew against the Lions in 2017 because the First Fives on the field (Luke McAlister and Aaron Cruden) were too shy to call thw drop call at the end. Spend a hour a week practising this call and its execution. We expect the ABs to win.
@sparky said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
Sparky's blame game
the tapes of Grant Batty, Bryan Williams, John Kirwan, Jonah Lomu and Doug Howlett scoring tries. Put the ball down with two hands carefully, then jog back to the middle.
Gunna disagree a smidge here.
Score a try is a good thing. Be happy.
Don't be a dick perhaps. (Fuck sake Reiko...)
But it's ok to celebrate.
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@sparky said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
Sparky's blame game
the tapes of Grant Batty, Bryan Williams, John Kirwan, Jonah Lomu and Doug Howlett scoring tries. Put the ball down with two hands carefully, then jog back to the middle.
Gunna disagree a smidge here.
Score a try is a good thing. Be happy.
Don't be a dick perhaps. (Fuck sake Reiko...)
But it's ok to celebrate.
@booboo said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@sparky said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
Sparky's blame game
the tapes of Grant Batty, Bryan Williams, John Kirwan, Jonah Lomu and Doug Howlett scoring tries. Put the ball down with two hands carefully, then jog back to the middle.
Gunna disagree a smidge here.
Score a try is a good thing. Be happy.
Don't be a dick perhaps. (Fuck sake Reiko...)
But it's ok to celebrate.
Much more acceptable these days, just keep it classy
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Ok late to the party, here we go...
Frizzel, looked like he was finally going to step up in the first 15 mins, then faded pretty badly and became a background player.
Taylor - what happened to the guy that came in and replaced Coles and didn't miss a beat with being an attacking game changer?
Ofa - definitely needs to pick his moments better but was a shining light in our tight 5 physicality.
Tuipulotu - what happened to the barnstorming blues player? Melted into the background much like Frizzel.
Whitelock - surprised to see him getting grief, ball in hand he actually made a couple of really good runs into the defence, unfortunately it's offset by the amount of times (like the rest of the forwards) he gets the ball standing still 5m behind the gain line and has no chance. What the fuck is up with this pattern?
Savea - didn't look himself at all, is he injured? Getting dragged back by the opposition 9 who's probably the smallest in the oppo isn't exactly a good look for an 8.
Smith - again looked off his game, 80% of his game was there, but surprisingly lacked accuracy in his passing and decision making, especially early.
Mounga looked like a debutant out of his depth.
Goodhue - similar type of game to Whitelock, the rest has been said - he's a great centre and defender.
Roane - thought he had an excellent game for a debut centre, then he goes and fucks up that try, illustrating that uncontrollable ego that irks so many of us. Surely he could eat some humble pie by now?
DMac - about a hundred times better than any other footy he's played this year, but another one having that covered up by deadly errors.
Clarke - surely he's starting next match?
Sotutu - surely he's starting next match?
All in all, just so many fuck ups from a team that used to pride itself on accuracy.
The worst thing for me - it all played out exactly how many would have predicted from the dire team selected. How the fuck can average Joe see this shit and Foster can't. What is he making his decision on that we don't know?
Highlight - Smith's try was a gorgeous bit of salt in the wounds and if we'd won it would have made a great highlight vid paired up with the Wallas go at the same move. Especially if someone else hadn't acted the fucktard and could score a try like the Wallabies debut winger.
Smith
Beauden
Clarke
ALB
Goodhue
Reece
JordiePerenara
Mounga
Roane. -
@booboo said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@sparky said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
Sparky's blame game
the tapes of Grant Batty, Bryan Williams, John Kirwan, Jonah Lomu and Doug Howlett scoring tries. Put the ball down with two hands carefully, then jog back to the middle.
Gunna disagree a smidge here.
Score a try is a good thing. Be happy.
Don't be a dick perhaps. (Fuck sake Reiko...)
But it's ok to celebrate.
Much more acceptable these days, just keep it classy
@canefan said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@booboo said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@sparky said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
Sparky's blame game
the tapes of Grant Batty, Bryan Williams, John Kirwan, Jonah Lomu and Doug Howlett scoring tries. Put the ball down with two hands carefully, then jog back to the middle.
Gunna disagree a smidge here.
Score a try is a good thing. Be happy.
Don't be a dick perhaps. (Fuck sake Reiko...)
But it's ok to celebrate.
Much more acceptable these days, just keep it classy
Well at least score the try first ...
And just remember back in the 70s when we didn't celebrate tries we didn't win much...
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Oh and right at the end, there was a disappointing degree of urgency and "wanting it" from so many in the team. The screenshots of Mounga are pretty cringey and I remember watching Jordie just walking about behind around the same time, not screaming into position and trying to organise anything. Everyone was just so lackadaisical.
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Oh and right at the end, there was a disappointing degree of urgency and "wanting it" from so many in the team. The screenshots of Mounga are pretty cringey and I remember watching Jordie just walking about behind around the same time, not screaming into position and trying to organise anything. Everyone was just so lackadaisical.
