NZ cricket 2020
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@Victor-Meldrew said in R.I.P. 2020:
Gotta agree. Cairns was a rare talent and you wonder what he could have achieved if he'd been managed properly in his early career.
But Reid was an world-class captain as well as a world-class all-rounder for nearly 2 decades. Both would be in my team.
Usually December before we have this chat but here goes....
Cairns walks in for me. His test career was brilliant and there was no allegations of cheating for that. Kiwis bash him for whatever he did in IPL and it is a shame he did that.
But his test career was brilliant, one of our very best.
With Reid I just don’t get the same wow factor, different eras etc, probably similar batsmen but look how many wickets Cairns snagged over a similar amount of tests
Reid doesn’t compare in the slightest to Sobers or Miller in the echelons of old time all rounders.
Cairns on the other hand has pretty similar overall stats to Beefy and Kapil. Sub 30 bowling and over 30 batting indicates a top quality player.
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As a pure player, Cairns anytime. But it wasn't just a different era, but a different NZ. Reid was carrying an entire team for a lot of his career, unlike Sobers or Miller.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in R.I.P. 2020:
As a pure player, Cairns anytime. But it wasn't just a different era, but a different NZ. Reid was carrying an entire team for a lot of his career, unlike Sobers or Miller.
Fair call. Perhaps Reid is better compared to Vettori who did the same ? The dearth of talent in some teams he played in was staggering.
You have to take your hat off to anyone who represented their country and I suppose Reid’s comparatively modest stats paved the way for some of the class players we had later.
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@MN5 said in R.I.P. 2020:
Fair call. Perhaps Reid is better compared to Vettori who did the same ?
Reid was well before my time, but probably a good comparison. Imagine a Vettori-led NZ without a Ross Taylor. Craig McMillan, Chris Martin or Chris Cairns and you'll get an idea. My Dad's generation rated him hugely, up there with Peter Snell & Meads.
Yeah, It wasn't until Reid retired we started to get players like Collinge, Congdon, Turner, Bruce Taylor, Pollard etc - who could hold their own with the rest of the world - coming thru the system.
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@dogmeat said in R.I.P. 2020:
@MN5 I can only go on what I've read but I imagine Reid would have made a better fist of Cairns career than Cairns would have of Reid's - if that makes sense.
It does I guess. With or without the cheating I think Cairns polarised a few people. But then Paddles did and then some as well.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in R.I.P. 2020:
Both would be in my team.
I can't see how? Unless you were going in without a spinner.
Its's a measure of how good our current team has been that while a few years ago I would have been putting in real oldies based on what I've read (Dempster, Donnelly, Cowie ) now I think eight players pick themselves then there's a bit of debate about an opener, wicketkeeper and whether to fo for another all-rounder or specialist bowler.
I can't conceive of a team with both Reid and Cairns?
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@dogmeat said in NZ cricket 2020:
@Victor-Meldrew said in R.I.P. 2020:
Both would be in my team.
I can't see how? Unless you were going in without a spinner.
Its's a measure of how good our current team has been that while a few years ago I would have been putting in real oldies based on what I've read (Dempster, Donnelly, Cowie ) now I think eight players pick themselves then there's a bit of debate about an opener, wicketkeeper and whether to fo for another all-rounder or specialist bowler.
I can't conceive of a team with both Reid and Cairns?
Latham, Williamson, Taylor, Crowe, BMac/Watling, Vettori, Paddles, Boult ?
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@dogmeat said in NZ cricket 2020:
@MN5 Bond - Shane Bond.
Turner
Then the Reid / Cairns / A.N. Other scenario
Also that (really) fat guy that does the rugby sideline has to be in the wk conversation
Hmmmm I’d rule out Smithy purely for his vastly inferior batting stats.
I’d pick Bond but then again he has the brief career issue.....Boult has done his stuff for longer, but not as well overall.
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@dogmeat said in NZ cricket 2020:
@MN5 I'd have Bond and Boult
In a best ever you shouldn't really need your keeper to prop up your batting.
Not that I'd have Smith but I'd discuss him before moving on.
Well out of Smith, BMac and Watling I couldn’t tell you who’s the best out and out keeper but it’s night and day when comparing the two more recent guys in terms of batting ( although Smith played some excellent innings ).
I think it’s a massive factor.
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@MN5 said in NZ cricket 2020:
@dogmeat said in NZ cricket 2020:
@MN5 Bond - Shane Bond.
Turner
Then the Reid / Cairns / A.N. Other scenario
Also that (really) fat guy that does the rugby sideline has to be in the wk conversation
Hmmmm I’d rule out Smithy purely for his vastly inferior batting stats.
I’d pick Bond but then again he has the brief career issue.....Boult has done his stuff for longer, but not as well overall.
Amazingly both Bond and Boult have 8 year test cricket careers.
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@dogmeat said in NZ cricket 2020:
@Victor-Meldrew said in R.I.P. 2020:
Its's a measure of how good our current team has been that while a few years ago I would have been putting in real oldies based on what I've read (Dempster, Donnelly, Cowie ) now I think eight players pick themselves then there's a bit of debate about an opener, wicketkeeper and whether to go for another all-rounder or specialist bowler.
That's really a problem with picking All-time teams - Sutcliffe, Dempster, Donnelly, Reid, Cowie - who can really say these days whether they make the team.
I'd probably pick all of them if the first test was to be played on uncovered wickets, with no helmets, bamboo pads, and no limits on the numbers of fielders allowed backward of square!
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Trundled into the Basin when passing this morning. Sadly only got to catch a couple of overs before the Umpires upped sticks and the gloomy conditions curtailed any more play. Definitely needed the heavy bails though! Think the score was about 40 for 2 after about 20 overs, Wellington batting after being invited to do so by Canterbury. At least it was a bit warmer there today than it was at Kilbirnie Park on Saturday afternoon where the fielding team had a couple of players wearing beanies and at least one or two others were wearing scarves to combat the chill. Pretty sure there was one player wear gloves, and he was not the wicket keeper nor the batsmen. Obviously they were of the woollen/thermal kind! Almost felt sorry for them but they were out there "enjoying" their pre-season "warm-up" match!
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@Chris-B said in NZ cricket 2020:
@dogmeat said in NZ cricket 2020:
@Victor-Meldrew said in R.I.P. 2020:
Its's a measure of how good our current team has been that while a few years ago I would have been putting in real oldies based on what I've read (Dempster, Donnelly, Cowie ) now I think eight players pick themselves then there's a bit of debate about an opener, wicketkeeper and whether to go for another all-rounder or specialist bowler.
That's really a problem with picking All-time teams - Sutcliffe, Dempster, Donnelly, Reid, Cowie - who can really say these days whether they make the team.
I'd probably pick all of them if the first test was to be played on uncovered wickets, with no helmets, bamboo pads, and no limits on the numbers of fielders allowed backward of square!
Well to put it more bluntly I think there's a real tendancy to look all rosy eyed at a player with mediocre stats from generations ago because he played in NZ crickets early days when we were learning the ropes as a cricketing nation....then again a guy like Stewie Dempster averaged 65 in not many matches.....how many of these were test wins ? I'd say none.
Guys like Williamson, Taylor, Latham, Boult, Watling and Wagner ( just of the current bunch ) all deserve mentions simply because they've done brilliantly well on the world stage by world standards. Not just NZ ones. . .
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@Higgins said in NZ cricket 2020:
Trundled into the Basin when passing this morning. Sadly only got to catch a couple of overs before the Umpires upped sticks and the gloomy conditions curtailed any more play. Definitely needed the heavy bails though! Think the score was about 19 for 2 after about 20 overs, Wellington batting after being invited to do so by Canterbury. At least it was a bit warmer there today than it was at Kilbirnie Park on Saturday afternoon where the fielding team had a couple of players wearing beanies and at least one or two others were wearing scarves to combat the chill. Pretty sure there was one player wear gloves, and he was not the wicket keeper nor the batsmen. Obviously they were of the woollen/thermal kind! Almost felt sorry for them but they were out there "enjoying" their pre-season "warm-up" match!
I saw Tom Latham and Matt Henry strolling along Lambton Quay this avo looking pretty depressed. To be fair it is one of those days that everyone has a go at Wellington for.
