Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October
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@nzzp said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
spot on, and England in the final - they shot their load the week before.
And in RWC2015 England suffered from premature ejection...
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@canefan said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
I thought the aussies started off very well, similar to the last game. But we were able to raise our level
Thinking about the game, that was the most satisfying thing for me.
Putting aside the standouts like Caleb Clarke, ALB and Sam Cane, it was hard to to spot anyone who wasn't playing really well. Pat T was a good example - took responsibility for a pretty raw 4/5 combination and really stepped up, esp. in the 2nd half.
Maybe I'm imagining it, but there seems far fewer stupid decisions and errors from the AB's in these last 2 games (RI excepted) than in the recent past. Dunno whether that's Cane's captaincy - he seems calmer and less wild-eyed than Read - or Fozzie's coaching, but just hope it continues.
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@NTA said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@reprobate said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
subconsciously coming off a win is different to coming off a loss.
But neither of those things happened, remember?
Both sides were unhappy with their performance, and wanted to respond appropriately.I think you're flailing a little TBH with this hokey talk of "fire in the belly" or motivation being the difference - might work at park footy, but not here. Pretty much every professional sports coach or sports psych will tell you that athletes don't get to the top level without having motivation in truckloads.
Hansen used to say that they would often know the result (or good performance) by Wednesday based on the mental condition. They could see when the team had that little extra focus and intent.
I think your lot were subconciously happy after Welly. They performed above expectations and had a bit of smoke blown up their arses despite the best attempts to stay on course.
@Crucial said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
I think your lot were subconciously happy after Welly. They performed above expectations and had a bit of smoke blown up their arses despite the best attempts to stay on course.
You think Dave Rennie - the coach that you lot are gnashing your teeth about missing out on - would have let that attitude pervade in camp?
Yeah, nah... nah.
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@Crucial said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
I think your lot were subconciously happy after Welly. They performed above expectations and had a bit of smoke blown up their arses despite the best attempts to stay on course.
You think Dave Rennie - the coach that you lot are gnashing your teeth about missing out on - would have let that attitude pervade in camp?
Yeah, nah... nah.
@NTA said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@Crucial said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
I think your lot were subconciously happy after Welly. They performed above expectations and had a bit of smoke blown up their arses despite the best attempts to stay on course.
You think Dave Rennie - the coach that you lot are gnashing your teeth about missing out on - would have let that attitude pervade in camp?
Yeah, nah... nah.
I don't think any coach lets the players get complacent and I don't buy that the wobs were complacent(and by the way I thought the wallabies came out strong and we ended up being too strong). Sometimes the players show they are human and aren't totally locked in. In a game with small margins that can be a difference maker. Just not last Sunday
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@Victor-Meldrew the most enjoyable thing for me was that we fronted up physically and ultimately win the breakdown and the collisions for the first time since the RWC19 QF
Yeah, the physicality level was up several notches. Not wanting to be a jeremiah here, but didn't we do that against Ireland in the RWC2019 quarter-finals?
The Wobbles will be up for Bled 3 and we need to make sure we stay calm and don't lose our heads in the first 20 minutes.
Isn't it good to have competitive Oz-AB games again?
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@NTA said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@Crucial said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
I think your lot were subconciously happy after Welly. They performed above expectations and had a bit of smoke blown up their arses despite the best attempts to stay on course.
You think Dave Rennie - the coach that you lot are gnashing your teeth about missing out on - would have let that attitude pervade in camp?
Yeah, nah... nah.
I don't think any coach lets the players get complacent and I don't buy that the wobs were complacent(and by the way I thought the wallabies came out strong and we ended up being too strong). Sometimes the players show they are human and aren't totally locked in. In a game with small margins that can be a difference maker. Just not last Sunday
@canefan said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@NTA said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@Crucial said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
I think your lot were subconciously happy after Welly. They performed above expectations and had a bit of smoke blown up their arses despite the best attempts to stay on course.
You think Dave Rennie - the coach that you lot are gnashing your teeth about missing out on - would have let that attitude pervade in camp?
Yeah, nah... nah.
I don't think any coach lets the players get complacent and I don't buy that the wobs were complacent(and by the way I thought the wallabies came out strong and we ended up being too strong). Sometimes the players show they are human and aren't totally locked in. In a game with small margins that can be a difference maker
That's what I was getting at. It is the tiny subconcious % that can translate to a difference on the field. Maybe not quite as urgent, maybe not quite as accurate.
Or could be as simple as thinking that you have an area nailed and look at other areas of improvement, taking your eye slightly off the ball. -
Yeah, the physicality level was up several notches. Not wanting to be a jeremiah here, but didn't we do that against Ireland in the RWC2019 quarter-finals?
The Wobbles will be up for Bled 3 and we need to make sure we stay calm and don't lose our heads in the first 20 minutes.
Isn't it good to have competitive Oz-AB games again?
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@Victor-Meldrew thats what I said didnt I? We beat down Ireland, then against England,
not so muchEdit: sorry I meant the rwc19 QF
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[Edit]
I'm more referring to the sheer mindlessness and stupid play and gifting momentum to the other side we saw against England in the semis.Don't expect us to dominate all the time.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
I'm more referring to the sheer mindlessness and stupid play we saw against England in the semis - rather than the opposition getting the upper hand in the game.
We definitely had that. I was talking about the lack of physicality and aggression that we displayed vs England and in G1 of the Bled. So I guess we can both be right...
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@canefan said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@NTA said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@Crucial said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
I think your lot were subconciously happy after Welly. They performed above expectations and had a bit of smoke blown up their arses despite the best attempts to stay on course.
You think Dave Rennie - the coach that you lot are gnashing your teeth about missing out on - would have let that attitude pervade in camp?
Yeah, nah... nah.
I don't think any coach lets the players get complacent and I don't buy that the wobs were complacent(and by the way I thought the wallabies came out strong and we ended up being too strong). Sometimes the players show they are human and aren't totally locked in. In a game with small margins that can be a difference maker
That's what I was getting at. It is the tiny subconcious % that can translate to a difference on the field. Maybe not quite as urgent, maybe not quite as accurate.
Or could be as simple as thinking that you have an area nailed and look at other areas of improvement, taking your eye slightly off the ball.@Crucial said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@canefan said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@NTA said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@Crucial said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
I think your lot were subconciously happy after Welly. They performed above expectations and had a bit of smoke blown up their arses despite the best attempts to stay on course.
You think Dave Rennie - the coach that you lot are gnashing your teeth about missing out on - would have let that attitude pervade in camp?
Yeah, nah... nah.
I don't think any coach lets the players get complacent and I don't buy that the wobs were complacent(and by the way I thought the wallabies came out strong and we ended up being too strong). Sometimes the players show they are human and aren't totally locked in. In a game with small margins that can be a difference maker
That's what I was getting at. It is the tiny subconcious % that can translate to a difference on the field. Maybe not quite as urgent, maybe not quite as accurate.
Or could be as simple as thinking that you have an area nailed and look at other areas of improvement, taking your eye slightly off the ball.I think it's the opposite, that they were indimidated by the Eden Park record and what happened previously last year and were nervous instead of confident.
Much harder to back up a good performance mentally.
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Ah coolio
"The Wallabies will wear their Indigenous jersey twice during the 2020 Test season, including against the All Blacks in Bledisloe III in Sydney on October 31.
...
The Wallabies will also wear the jersey against Argentina during their Tri-Nations clash at Bankwest Stadium on December 5. "
@NTA said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
Ah coolio
"The Wallabies will wear their Indigenous jersey twice during the 2020 Test season, including against the All Blacks in Bledisloe III in Sydney on October 31.
...
The Wallabies will also wear the jersey against Argentina during their Tri-Nations clash at Bankwest Stadium on December 5. "I don't like it.
International jerseys should have a simple class.I don't hate it, as a training jersey or design.
At least it is predominantly one colour, green, unlike some of the blended no-colour kit-clash garbage we sometimes see. Although I'd need to see the back of the shirt, to make sure it isn't a totally different colour, or a green so dark it will look black ... like the opponent they are supposed to be different from.I mean, I know I'm not the target market. Like the drunk boor in a bar who keeps repeating himself .... I terminated my sky contract first game back post covid, as a team was wearing tribeless pink, just for the sake of it. And I'm sick of lack of identity and tradition. I need to care.
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@NTA said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
Ah coolio
"The Wallabies will wear their Indigenous jersey twice during the 2020 Test season, including against the All Blacks in Bledisloe III in Sydney on October 31.
...
The Wallabies will also wear the jersey against Argentina during their Tri-Nations clash at Bankwest Stadium on December 5. "I don't like it.
International jerseys should have a simple class.I don't hate it, as a training jersey or design.
At least it is predominantly one colour, green, unlike some of the blended no-colour kit-clash garbage we sometimes see. Although I'd need to see the back of the shirt, to make sure it isn't a totally different colour, or a green so dark it will look black ... like the opponent they are supposed to be different from.I mean, I know I'm not the target market. Like the drunk boor in a bar who keeps repeating himself .... I terminated my sky contract first game back post covid, as a team was wearing tribeless pink, just for the sake of it. And I'm sick of lack of identity and tradition. I need to care.
@Rapido said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
And I'm sick of lack of identity and tradition.
Well, respecting thousands of years of indigenous settlement in Australia should be right up your alley, then
Interesting that the Wallabies wore green and not gold pre-WW2 but it clashed with the Boks.
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@Rapido said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
And I'm sick of lack of identity and tradition.
Well, respecting thousands of years of indigenous settlement in Australia should be right up your alley, then
Interesting that the Wallabies wore green and not gold pre-WW2 but it clashed with the Boks.
@NTA said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@Rapido said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
And I'm sick of lack of identity and tradition.
Well, respecting thousands of years of indigenous settlement in Australia should be right up your alley, then
Were limited by knitting/stitching technologies back then. Would have been limited to bold plain or bold hoops, just as god intended it.
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@NTA said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@Rapido said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
And I'm sick of lack of identity and tradition.
Well, respecting thousands of years of indigenous settlement in Australia should be right up your alley, then
Were limited by knitting/stitching technologies back then. Would have been limited to bold plain or bold hoops, just as god intended it.
@Rapido said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@NTA said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@Rapido said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
And I'm sick of lack of identity and tradition.
Well, respecting thousands of years of indigenous settlement in Australia should be right up your alley, then
Were limited by knitting/stitching technologies back then. Would have been limited to bold plain or bold hoops, just as god intended it.
I don't mind hoops on a jersey. Our club kit this year looked back to our first couple of years, but I'd like Third Grade to have hoops just so the big boys look even bigger
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h yes, it's time for "just wanted it more" and "played with more passion" which are all bullshit at the top level. Gregan said as much nigh on 20 years ago.
The Wallabies were balls deep in the game for just about all of it. They had ascendency in a number of areas all afternoon. Small things made the difference, not many of them to do with psyche.
The main difference was, to me at least, we managed to force a few more errors that our gameplan relies on. That came about because of a change in focus. This week was about being physical. I'm pretty sure the players said as much. It created us more opportunities to feed off. And we took those opportunitie.
Australia created plenty of their own with some clever ball movement, but weren't able to take them. Bang, 20 points. Fire in the belly had fuck all to do with it.
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@canefan said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
I thought the aussies started off very well, similar to the last game. But we were able to raise our level
Thinking about the game, that was the most satisfying thing for me.
Putting aside the standouts like Caleb Clarke, ALB and Sam Cane, it was hard to to spot anyone who wasn't playing really well. Pat T was a good example - took responsibility for a pretty raw 4/5 combination and really stepped up, esp. in the 2nd half.
Maybe I'm imagining it, but there seems far fewer stupid decisions and errors from the AB's in these last 2 games (RI excepted) than in the recent past. Dunno whether that's Cane's captaincy - he seems calmer and less wild-eyed than Read - or Fozzie's coaching, but just hope it continues.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@canefan said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
I thought the aussies started off very well, similar to the last game. But we were able to raise our level
Thinking about the game, that was the most satisfying thing for me.
Putting aside the standouts like Caleb Clarke, ALB and Sam Cane, it was hard to to spot anyone who wasn't playing really well. Pat T was a good example - took responsibility for a pretty raw 4/5 combination and really stepped up, esp. in the 2nd half.
Maybe I'm imagining it, but there seems far fewer stupid decisions and errors from the AB's in these last 2 games (RI excepted) than in the recent past. Dunno whether that's Cane's captaincy - he seems calmer and less wild-eyed than Read - or Fozzie's coaching, but just hope it continues.
Sacrilege
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@canefan said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
I thought the aussies started off very well, similar to the last game. But we were able to raise our level
Thinking about the game, that was the most satisfying thing for me.
Putting aside the standouts like Caleb Clarke, ALB and Sam Cane, it was hard to to spot anyone who wasn't playing really well. Pat T was a good example - took responsibility for a pretty raw 4/5 combination and really stepped up, esp. in the 2nd half.
Maybe I'm imagining it, but there seems far fewer stupid decisions and errors from the AB's in these last 2 games (RI excepted) than in the recent past. Dunno whether that's Cane's captaincy - he seems calmer and less wild-eyed than Read - or Fozzie's coaching, but just hope it continues.
Sacrilege
@booboo said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@canefan said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
I thought the aussies started off very well, similar to the last game. But we were able to raise our level
Thinking about the game, that was the most satisfying thing for me.
Putting aside the standouts like Caleb Clarke, ALB and Sam Cane, it was hard to to spot anyone who wasn't playing really well. Pat T was a good example - took responsibility for a pretty raw 4/5 combination and really stepped up, esp. in the 2nd half.
Maybe I'm imagining it, but there seems far fewer stupid decisions and errors from the AB's in these last 2 games (RI excepted) than in the recent past. Dunno whether that's Cane's captaincy - he seems calmer and less wild-eyed than Read - or Fozzie's coaching, but just hope it continues.
Sacrilege
Yes. Guards! Seize him!
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h yes, it's time for "just wanted it more" and "played with more passion" which are all bullshit at the top level. Gregan said as much nigh on 20 years ago.
The Wallabies were balls deep in the game for just about all of it. They had ascendency in a number of areas all afternoon. Small things made the difference, not many of them to do with psyche.
The main difference was, to me at least, we managed to force a few more errors that our gameplan relies on. That came about because of a change in focus. This week was about being physical. I'm pretty sure the players said as much. It created us more opportunities to feed off. And we took those opportunitie.
Australia created plenty of their own with some clever ball movement, but weren't able to take them. Bang, 20 points. Fire in the belly had fuck all to do with it.
@mariner4life I think you are partly right. I think the whole 'they wanted it more' motivation argument is probably not accurate. I think the Wallabies would have been plenty motivated at being the first team to win at Eden Park in 30 odd years and setting up two home games to reclaim the Bled.
It's more about composure and execution under pressure. I think it is inevitable given the quality of the All Blacks that they put you under so much pressure you fail to execute. being able to recover composure after making errors is the key for me.
I thought after that 5 minute period midway through the first half where we were sliced open like warm butter, we actually recovered quite well and began to reassert some control and started executing basic skills again. Then Matt Toomua went off and everything started to feel rushed and panicky. That lead to poor decisions and an inability to convert chances.
And from 60 minutes onwards we had no composure at all. Everything was rushed, forced passes, dropping the pill cold, no direction in attack. We had plenty of good pill to work with and you guys defended with ease, already mentally at the pub.
Edit: i think our composure has already improved greatly under DR. A Cheika team would have completely capitulated and lost by 30+ after that initial period of AB dominance midway through the first half.
