Black Caps v Pakistan
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@SynicBast said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@MN5 said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@SynicBast said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Rapido said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@SynicBast said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Rapido said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Rapido said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@SynicBast said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Rapido said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@mikey07 said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Rapido That’s why I like Ajaz Patel he’s more of ab attacking spinner
Well, Ajaz was in squad originally before being ruled out, but still hasn't played a match all year yet. Stead and Kane also prefer Ajaz.
Logic says he plays if fit, then NZ either has a long tail or drop one of the 4 seamers.
Compromises and decisions have to be made. Consequences luved with
Unlike internet posters who live in worlds where we can pick unbalanced teams in which we're always guaranteed to win the toss on a green one.
We lost the toss on this one, green lasted only a day, spinning already. I applaud the Santner over Mitchell selection. Its logical.
I remain curious what they do when/if both Patel / CdG are available. That's when it gets tough, now it is simple.
Except that Santnav doesn't justify his position as a bowler at test level even on a turner - he doesn't get enough wickets - mitchell is more likely to exploit variable bounce and the pace of the icket which was suspected to be a little two paced actually suits mitchell more so than a slow mystery spinner
Cool, so who are you picking? You've dropped Santner, who plays this test?
Edit. LOL. I have internet RAAAGE. I didn't even read you have Mitchell select instead.
If Patel was fit, I'd sel;ect him ahead of either of them even on a green seamer - he offers way more variation, can exploit a wider variety of pitch conditions and actually looks like taking wickets rather than holding down an end until the new ball is ready. Plus there's about as much actual spin from santner as a delivery from Coney or Larsen in Australia at Perth
So. You're compromise is Jamieson at 7.
Despite looking good at test level, and no doubt has promise with bat, has been around FC season for about 6 years, averages 20, no hundred at FC level, HS of only 67 at FC level.My compromise would be Santner in NZ, Patel away where it spins, and drop one of 4 seamers. Protect Jamieson from batting pressure and expectations. Tough luck for Ajaz and CdG who are good enough to make NZ teams usually.
santner only has 4 innings of 45 or more from 29 innings. So I'm not convinced he adds anything more than Jamieson and number 7 is not anywhere near asking someone to bat at 6 for example.
I agree with you picking on Santner and the myth he is a test class batsman but loads of guys over the years have gone between 6/7/8 in any given batting line up as it's either specialist batsman/Keeper batsman or all rounder depending on the team make up.
7 and 8 can be a specialist bowler or wk depending on the relative strength of the top order - right now I believe that we have the luxury of a top 6 so strong that we can afford to play BJ at 6
Yes we do. A very good position to be in and we're lucky that BJ has continued the trend of keepers having averages well into the 30s nowadays. Can you imagine trusting Ian Smith to do a job there consistently ?
How are Will Young and Devon Conway in terms of being able to send a few overs down cos Latham, Taylor and Nicholls certainly can't/won't
@MN5 said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@SynicBast said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@MN5 said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@SynicBast said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Rapido said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@SynicBast said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Rapido said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Rapido said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@SynicBast said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Rapido said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@mikey07 said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Rapido That’s why I like Ajaz Patel he’s more of ab attacking spinner
Well, Ajaz was in squad originally before being ruled out, but still hasn't played a match all year yet. Stead and Kane also prefer Ajaz.
Logic says he plays if fit, then NZ either has a long tail or drop one of the 4 seamers.
Compromises and decisions have to be made. Consequences luved with
Unlike internet posters who live in worlds where we can pick unbalanced teams in which we're always guaranteed to win the toss on a green one.
We lost the toss on this one, green lasted only a day, spinning already. I applaud the Santner over Mitchell selection. Its logical.
I remain curious what they do when/if both Patel / CdG are available. That's when it gets tough, now it is simple.
Except that Santnav doesn't justify his position as a bowler at test level even on a turner - he doesn't get enough wickets - mitchell is more likely to exploit variable bounce and the pace of the icket which was suspected to be a little two paced actually suits mitchell more so than a slow mystery spinner
Cool, so who are you picking? You've dropped Santner, who plays this test?
Edit. LOL. I have internet RAAAGE. I didn't even read you have Mitchell select instead.
If Patel was fit, I'd sel;ect him ahead of either of them even on a green seamer - he offers way more variation, can exploit a wider variety of pitch conditions and actually looks like taking wickets rather than holding down an end until the new ball is ready. Plus there's about as much actual spin from santner as a delivery from Coney or Larsen in Australia at Perth
So. You're compromise is Jamieson at 7.
Despite looking good at test level, and no doubt has promise with bat, has been around FC season for about 6 years, averages 20, no hundred at FC level, HS of only 67 at FC level.My compromise would be Santner in NZ, Patel away where it spins, and drop one of 4 seamers. Protect Jamieson from batting pressure and expectations. Tough luck for Ajaz and CdG who are good enough to make NZ teams usually.
santner only has 4 innings of 45 or more from 29 innings. So I'm not convinced he adds anything more than Jamieson and number 7 is not anywhere near asking someone to bat at 6 for example.
I agree with you picking on Santner and the myth he is a test class batsman but loads of guys over the years have gone between 6/7/8 in any given batting line up as it's either specialist batsman/Keeper batsman or all rounder depending on the team make up.
7 and 8 can be a specialist bowler or wk depending on the relative strength of the top order - right now I believe that we have the luxury of a top 6 so strong that we can afford to play BJ at 6
Yes we do. A very good position to be in and we're lucky that BJ has continued the trend of keepers having averages well into the 30s nowadays. Can you imagine trusting Ian Smith to do a job there consistently ?
Only against India
How are Will Young and Devon Conway in terms of being able to send a few overs down cos Latham, Taylor and Nicholls certainly can't/won't
No Idea, and frankly the way Wagner bowls long spells the need for an option other CDGH or Patel is not there these days. Plus Patel needs overs at test level now not later and every selection of Santner or Mitchell type players is denying the necessary test match experience - something that matters more to a left arm orthodox who can actually move the ball away .
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@SynicBast said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Rapido said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@SynicBast said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Rapido said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Rapido said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@SynicBast said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Rapido said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@mikey07 said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Rapido That’s why I like Ajaz Patel he’s more of ab attacking spinner
Well, Ajaz was in squad originally before being ruled out, but still hasn't played a match all year yet. Stead and Kane also prefer Ajaz.
Logic says he plays if fit, then NZ either has a long tail or drop one of the 4 seamers.
Compromises and decisions have to be made. Consequences luved with
Unlike internet posters who live in worlds where we can pick unbalanced teams in which we're always guaranteed to win the toss on a green one.
We lost the toss on this one, green lasted only a day, spinning already. I applaud the Santner over Mitchell selection. Its logical.
I remain curious what they do when/if both Patel / CdG are available. That's when it gets tough, now it is simple.
Except that Santnav doesn't justify his position as a bowler at test level even on a turner - he doesn't get enough wickets - mitchell is more likely to exploit variable bounce and the pace of the icket which was suspected to be a little two paced actually suits mitchell more so than a slow mystery spinner
Cool, so who are you picking? You've dropped Santner, who plays this test?
Edit. LOL. I have internet RAAAGE. I didn't even read you have Mitchell select instead.
If Patel was fit, I'd sel;ect him ahead of either of them even on a green seamer - he offers way more variation, can exploit a wider variety of pitch conditions and actually looks like taking wickets rather than holding down an end until the new ball is ready. Plus there's about as much actual spin from santner as a delivery from Coney or Larsen in Australia at Perth
So. You're compromise is Jamieson at 7.
Despite looking good at test level, and no doubt has promise with bat, has been around FC season for about 6 years, averages 20, no hundred at FC level, HS of only 67 at FC level.My compromise would be Santner in NZ, Patel away where it spins, and drop one of 4 seamers. Protect Jamieson from batting pressure and expectations. Tough luck for Ajaz and CdG who are good enough to make NZ teams usually.
santner only has 4 innings of 45 or more from 29 innings. So I'm not convinced he adds anything more than Jamieson and number 7 is not anywhere near asking someone to bat at 6 for example.
Yes, but combine this with Southee at 8. Jamieson will need to change his approach a bit.
Jamieson has a few failures with bat at 7 being too aggressive, Joe Moron from Waikanae will be tapping away on forums or calling talkback .... exactly what a guy in his 5th test needs , people moaning about his weaker discipline. See Southee 's career ....
@Rapido said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@SynicBast said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Rapido said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@SynicBast said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Rapido said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Rapido said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@SynicBast said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Rapido said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@mikey07 said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Rapido That’s why I like Ajaz Patel he’s more of ab attacking spinner
Well, Ajaz was in squad originally before being ruled out, but still hasn't played a match all year yet. Stead and Kane also prefer Ajaz.
Logic says he plays if fit, then NZ either has a long tail or drop one of the 4 seamers.
Compromises and decisions have to be made. Consequences luved with
Unlike internet posters who live in worlds where we can pick unbalanced teams in which we're always guaranteed to win the toss on a green one.
We lost the toss on this one, green lasted only a day, spinning already. I applaud the Santner over Mitchell selection. Its logical.
I remain curious what they do when/if both Patel / CdG are available. That's when it gets tough, now it is simple.
Except that Santnav doesn't justify his position as a bowler at test level even on a turner - he doesn't get enough wickets - mitchell is more likely to exploit variable bounce and the pace of the icket which was suspected to be a little two paced actually suits mitchell more so than a slow mystery spinner
Cool, so who are you picking? You've dropped Santner, who plays this test?
Edit. LOL. I have internet RAAAGE. I didn't even read you have Mitchell select instead.
If Patel was fit, I'd sel;ect him ahead of either of them even on a green seamer - he offers way more variation, can exploit a wider variety of pitch conditions and actually looks like taking wickets rather than holding down an end until the new ball is ready. Plus there's about as much actual spin from santner as a delivery from Coney or Larsen in Australia at Perth
So. You're compromise is Jamieson at 7.
Despite looking good at test level, and no doubt has promise with bat, has been around FC season for about 6 years, averages 20, no hundred at FC level, HS of only 67 at FC level.My compromise would be Santner in NZ, Patel away where it spins, and drop one of 4 seamers. Protect Jamieson from batting pressure and expectations. Tough luck for Ajaz and CdG who are good enough to make NZ teams usually.
santner only has 4 innings of 45 or more from 29 innings. So I'm not convinced he adds anything more than Jamieson and number 7 is not anywhere near asking someone to bat at 6 for example.
Yes, but combine this with Southee at 8. Jamieson will need to change his approach a bit.
Jamieson has a few failures with bat at 7 being too aggressive, Joe Moron from Waikanae will be tapping away on forums or calling talkback .... exactly what a guy in his 5th test needs , people moaning about his weaker discipline. See Southee 's career ....
Every run we get from Southee is a bonus - that debut 50 was an outlier - people read far to much into single performances - hell people were calling for roscoe to be dropped after the last test against the Windies - yet to my mind his 70 today settled the innings down far more than Kane's century did - the hard work was done by the time Kane himself was purring
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Re: the comments about the new radio commentary team, I’ve listened to them a lot at the ground over the last couple of days... am still trying to figure out what I make of them overall. Bracewell is entertaining when he gets going.
One thing I will note in Peter Williams (partial) defence, on the first morning of the Hamilton test match it took 15 mins and the first commentary change to Williams before we were told that there were “three slips and a gully”. Doully sounds very promising for radio, but some of the converted TV commentators don’t paint enough of a picture at times. Though I get why Williams is polarising too.
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Re: the comments about the new radio commentary team, I’ve listened to them a lot at the ground over the last couple of days... am still trying to figure out what I make of them overall. Bracewell is entertaining when he gets going.
One thing I will note in Peter Williams (partial) defence, on the first morning of the Hamilton test match it took 15 mins and the first commentary change to Williams before we were told that there were “three slips and a gully”. Doully sounds very promising for radio, but some of the converted TV commentators don’t paint enough of a picture at times. Though I get why Williams is polarising too.
@Donsteppa I hope they grow into the role.
That said, I miss Wads. What a dead set legend of the game.
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Williams is an adequate play-by-play commentator, but I think he's struggling with having to provide colour commentary as well, as he's not cut out for that.
Wagner was off for the start of the innings, so probably wise that we have at least someone who can bowl if one of the seamers goes down. Doesn't have to be Santner, obviously, but it does have to be a bowler, and I gather Santer is it because of his batting.
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Williams is an adequate play-by-play commentator, but I think he's struggling with having to provide colour commentary as well, as he's not cut out for that.
Wagner was off for the start of the innings, so probably wise that we have at least someone who can bowl if one of the seamers goes down. Doesn't have to be Santner, obviously, but it does have to be a bowler, and I gather Santer is it because of his batting.
@Godder said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
Williams is an adequate play-by-play commentator, but I think he's struggling with having to provide colour commentary as well, as he's not cut out for that.
Wagner was off for the start of the innings, so probably wise that we have at least someone who can bowl if one of the seamers goes down. Doesn't have to be Santner, obviously, but it does have to be a bowler, and I gather Santer is it because of his batting.
I'd still rather have Mitchell in that case (batting as the differentiating factor - for those who don't get context or nuance).
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@Godder said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
Williams is an adequate play-by-play commentator, but I think he's struggling with having to provide colour commentary as well, as he's not cut out for that.
Wagner was off for the start of the innings, so probably wise that we have at least someone who can bowl if one of the seamers goes down. Doesn't have to be Santner, obviously, but it does have to be a bowler, and I gather Santer is it because of his batting.
I'd still rather have Mitchell in that case (batting as the differentiating factor - for those who don't get context or nuance).
@SynicBast said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Godder said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
Williams is an adequate play-by-play commentator, but I think he's struggling with having to provide colour commentary as well, as he's not cut out for that.
Wagner was off for the start of the innings, so probably wise that we have at least someone who can bowl if one of the seamers goes down. Doesn't have to be Santner, obviously, but it does have to be a bowler, and I gather Santer is it because of his batting.
I'd still rather have Mitchell in that case.
Bring back McMillan or Astle
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Hanging it out early here. Bit of a self inflicted wound here by NZC, groundsmen.
I'm all for green, but need to be green enough to last for 2 completed first innings. Maybe we batted too well?
Feeling WTC chances slipping away. Especially with Wagner's foot, who will produce something out of nothing? Imperative we produced 4 result wickets this season.
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Hanging it out early here. Bit of a self inflicted wound here by NZC, groundsmen.
I'm all for green, but need to be green enough to last for 2 completed first innings. Maybe we batted too well?
Feeling WTC chances slipping away. Especially with Wagner's foot, who will produce something out of nothing? Imperative we produced 4 result wickets this season.
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Hanging it out early here. Bit of a self inflicted wound here by NZC, groundsmen.
I'm all for green, but need to be green enough to last for 2 completed first innings. Maybe we batted too well?
Feeling WTC chances slipping away. Especially with Wagner's foot, who will produce something out of nothing? Imperative we produced 4 result wickets this season.
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I missed the last bit.
The Abid wicket was so bad, so village, that being Pakistan you get a bit suspicious. I'm rewinding the stream to watch the lead up, was there variable bounce or something making Abid hang back?
Edit. I see he got hit on the gloves by a lifter previous Jamieson over.
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Speaking of milestones, Southee takes 2 in an over to leave Pakistan at 60/5, and he moves to 298 test wickets - 2 to go to be our 4th bowler to reach 300.
Edit: as pointed out, 3rd.
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Dumb arse ground announcers and music: ask the crowd to "give a hand to the Black Caps coming back out onto the field"... and then instantly play music right over the top of it...
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@Donsteppa At least it was sunshine and not rain that stopped play in Napier last time!
@Higgins said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Donsteppa At least it was sunshine and not rain that stopped play in Napier last time!
Exactly, one shower and that Napier ground would take the rest of the match to dry out the outfield
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Dumb arse ground announcers and music: ask the crowd to "give a hand to the Black Caps coming back out onto the field"... and then instantly play music right over the top of it...
@Donsteppa That is the worst thing about the ground. They blast out the same irrelevant songs at every opportunity. Seddon Park is so clever with their selections.
Everything else was great there yesterday.
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Back at the safety of the couch and cricket on two channels. Funny the way the weather has worked out, yesterday there were reports of heavy rain everywhere nearby, but all good at the ground.
Today what few showers there’ve been around seemed to go right over the top of us. Can confirm that a young pohutukawa tree does a good job of shielding several families from hail...
