Australia v India
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@MN5 said in Australia v India:
@Siam said in Australia v India:
@Chris-B said in Australia v India:
@Siam Yeah - poaching of resources has also had an effect on the ABs. The Charles Piatau and Steven Luatua effect.
And for Oz - it is quite strange that they're having to field people like Wade, Burns and Harris.
Maybe that's why they've had to prepare pitches that haven't deteriorated as much as they've needed?
Very telling that they put so much on the wunderkind after going back to failed players as you mentioned. Khawaja popped up in dispatches too. And yet they blew off investments like Kurtis Patterson ( century maker i think) and Bancroft and Head. The cupboard is as bare as it's ever been. 20/20 side has oodles to pick from though.
No it’s not. They still get more players in an ANZAC team than we do and some of the teams of the 80s were pretty bad when they had Border and that was about it.
Even then there was usually a David Boon, Geoff Marsh, or a Craig McDermott floating around alongside Border, and they nabbed the 87 World Cup.
@Donsteppa said in Australia v India:
@MN5 said in Australia v India:
@Siam said in Australia v India:
@Chris-B said in Australia v India:
@Siam Yeah - poaching of resources has also had an effect on the ABs. The Charles Piatau and Steven Luatua effect.
And for Oz - it is quite strange that they're having to field people like Wade, Burns and Harris.
Maybe that's why they've had to prepare pitches that haven't deteriorated as much as they've needed?
Very telling that they put so much on the wunderkind after going back to failed players as you mentioned. Khawaja popped up in dispatches too. And yet they blew off investments like Kurtis Patterson ( century maker i think) and Bancroft and Head. The cupboard is as bare as it's ever been. 20/20 side has oodles to pick from though.
No it’s not. They still get more players in an ANZAC team than we do and some of the teams of the 80s were pretty bad when they had Border and that was about it.
Even then there was usually a David Boon, Geoff Marsh, or a Craig McDermott floating around alongside Border, and they nabbed the 87 World Cup.
All good players. Not great. Let’s be honest the team that Hadlee routed was pretty shite. They got better in the late 80s, much stronger still in the 90s and became arguably the best test team in history in the 2000s.....
This current team is still littered with absolute class players.
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@Siam said in Australia v India:
@MN5 name and rank the players outside the 11 then.
I don’t get what you mean
@MN5 i was saying the playing stocks are low in Aus at the moment regarding test cricket. The ones outside of 3 batsmen and 4 bowlers. You said they're fine and then referenced 40 fucking years ago. I offered up the " cupboard" stock examples but obviously have got it wrong.
So who are these cricketers that are better than Harris, Wade khawaja, head and burns?
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@Donsteppa test cricket?
@Siam said in Australia v India:
@Donsteppa test cricket?
My vague memory is that they turned it around with the one day side, then built up to the 89 Ashes series hiding with players like Deano and co alongside Border. Though I did see possibly their worst side being routed at Eden Park in 1986.
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@Chris-B said in Australia v India:
@Siam Yeah - poaching of resources has also had an effect on the ABs. The Charles Piatau and Steven Luatua effect.
And for Oz - it is quite strange that they're having to field people like Wade, Burns and Harris.
Maybe that's why they've had to prepare pitches that haven't deteriorated as much as they've needed?
Very telling that they put so much on the wunderkind after going back to failed players as you mentioned. Khawaja popped up in dispatches too. And yet they blew off investments like Kurtis Patterson ( century maker i think) and Bancroft and Head. The cupboard is as bare as it's ever been. 20/20 side has oodles to pick from though.
@Siam said in Australia v India:
And yet they blew off investments like Kurtis Patterson ( century maker i think) and Bancroft and Head.
Head was given a few tries and didn't perform adequately under pressure. Therefore the writing is on the wall for players like Wade. Bancroft's Test form didn't recover in England so he's been blacklisted.
The introduction of genuinely young players like Pucovski and Green is good - would have liked to see more of the former instead of Marcus Harris. The big factor in our opening partnerships: Dave Warner has had 10 different partners at Test level in the opener role. That isn't great, and probably points to Sheffield Shield being below where it needs to be for player prep.
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@Siam said in Australia v India:
And yet they blew off investments like Kurtis Patterson ( century maker i think) and Bancroft and Head.
Head was given a few tries and didn't perform adequately under pressure. Therefore the writing is on the wall for players like Wade. Bancroft's Test form didn't recover in England so he's been blacklisted.
The introduction of genuinely young players like Pucovski and Green is good - would have liked to see more of the former instead of Marcus Harris. The big factor in our opening partnerships: Dave Warner has had 10 different partners at Test level in the opener role. That isn't great, and probably points to Sheffield Shield being below where it needs to be for player prep.
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@Donsteppa said in Australia v India:
@MN5 said in Australia v India:
@Siam said in Australia v India:
@Chris-B said in Australia v India:
@Siam Yeah - poaching of resources has also had an effect on the ABs. The Charles Piatau and Steven Luatua effect.
And for Oz - it is quite strange that they're having to field people like Wade, Burns and Harris.
Maybe that's why they've had to prepare pitches that haven't deteriorated as much as they've needed?
Very telling that they put so much on the wunderkind after going back to failed players as you mentioned. Khawaja popped up in dispatches too. And yet they blew off investments like Kurtis Patterson ( century maker i think) and Bancroft and Head. The cupboard is as bare as it's ever been. 20/20 side has oodles to pick from though.
No it’s not. They still get more players in an ANZAC team than we do and some of the teams of the 80s were pretty bad when they had Border and that was about it.
Even then there was usually a David Boon, Geoff Marsh, or a Craig McDermott floating around alongside Border, and they nabbed the 87 World Cup.
All good players. Not great. Let’s be honest the team that Hadlee routed was pretty shite. They got better in the late 80s, much stronger still in the 90s and became arguably the best test team in history in the 2000s.....
This current team is still littered with absolute class players.
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@Siam said in Australia v India:
@Donsteppa test cricket?
My vague memory is that they turned it around with the one day side, then built up to the 89 Ashes series hiding with players like Deano and co alongside Border. Though I did see possibly their worst side being routed at Eden Park in 1986.
@Donsteppa said in Australia v India:
@Siam said in Australia v India:
@Donsteppa test cricket?
My vague memory is that they turned it around with the one day side, then built up to the 89 Ashes series hiding with players like Deano and co alongside Border. Though I did see possibly their worst side being routed at Eden Park in 1986.
Coincided with a time that Sheffield Shield was huge. There were many names that never or hardly played for Oz but would have walked into any national side: law, Elliott, divenuto, hills, siddons, maher even Lehman off the top of my head. You had to make 1000 runs every season for at least 3 to get a mention. Now, nobody gets 1000.
But you only need 11 good ones and absolutely no doubt that cricket Oz is addressing this. You don't get to dominate the world for so long by accident
.When it's all said and done losing 2 series in a row at home to India, the second to India "b" is very unaustralian
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@Donsteppa said in Australia v India:
@MN5 said in Australia v India:
@Siam said in Australia v India:
@Chris-B said in Australia v India:
@Siam Yeah - poaching of resources has also had an effect on the ABs. The Charles Piatau and Steven Luatua effect.
And for Oz - it is quite strange that they're having to field people like Wade, Burns and Harris.
Maybe that's why they've had to prepare pitches that haven't deteriorated as much as they've needed?
Very telling that they put so much on the wunderkind after going back to failed players as you mentioned. Khawaja popped up in dispatches too. And yet they blew off investments like Kurtis Patterson ( century maker i think) and Bancroft and Head. The cupboard is as bare as it's ever been. 20/20 side has oodles to pick from though.
No it’s not. They still get more players in an ANZAC team than we do and some of the teams of the 80s were pretty bad when they had Border and that was about it.
Even then there was usually a David Boon, Geoff Marsh, or a Craig McDermott floating around alongside Border, and they nabbed the 87 World Cup.
All good players. Not great. Let’s be honest the team that Hadlee routed was pretty shite. They got better in the late 80s, much stronger still in the 90s and became arguably the best test team in history in the 2000s.....
This current team is still littered with absolute class players.
@MN5 said in Australia v India:
They got better in the late 80s, much stronger still in the 90s and became arguably the best test team in history in the 2000s.....
While I'm thinking of it, the 90s was the decade they never lost the Ashes
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@NTA said in Australia v India:
@kev said in Australia v India:
After the Aussie cricketers reverted to type, the world celebrates! Love it.
Huh? Explain.
Easy...everyone admires the Australian Cricket team for their skills. But, there is an aggressiveness / need to win that can turn to nasty sledging and recently to cheating. Supposedly they have worked hard on their culture but Tim Paine demonstrated that it is very hard to change and the needless bullshit is still their. When you behave like dicks you can’t complain if no one else likes you - noting that I am sure they don’t worry about that as they are still a great cricket team.
@kev said in Australia v India:
@NTA said in Australia v India:
@kev said in Australia v India:
After the Aussie cricketers reverted to type, the world celebrates! Love it.
Huh? Explain.
Easy...everyone admires the Australian Cricket team for their skills. But, there is an aggressiveness / need to win that can turn to nasty sledging and recently to cheating. Supposedly they have worked hard on their culture but Tim Paine demonstrated that it is very hard to change and the needless bullshit is still their. When you behave like dicks you can’t complain if no one else likes you - noting that I am sure they don’t worry about that as they are still a great cricket team.
The thing is ugly win at all costs streak that runs through the side generally only shows itself when it is a high pressure situation against a good team - most often while they are in the process of blowing a big lead. Almost every series Aus has lost in the past four decades has been marred by an ugly incident, this one is no exception.
So while it's super easy to sing kumbahya in an ODI series against Sri Lanka that doesn't mean anything has changed and to be fair I'm not sure it needs to, it has been a winning formula and the public love it. Who cares what other think?
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@Siam said in Australia v India:
And yet they blew off investments like Kurtis Patterson ( century maker i think) and Bancroft and Head.
Head was given a few tries and didn't perform adequately under pressure. Therefore the writing is on the wall for players like Wade. Bancroft's Test form didn't recover in England so he's been blacklisted.
The introduction of genuinely young players like Pucovski and Green is good - would have liked to see more of the former instead of Marcus Harris. The big factor in our opening partnerships: Dave Warner has had 10 different partners at Test level in the opener role. That isn't great, and probably points to Sheffield Shield being below where it needs to be for player prep.
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@KiwiMurph Ian Chappell addressed that very question on ABC radio coverage today.
In typical flowery speech, " he got dropped for a reason and somehow not playing makes a him better than he was before!"
Well that's chappelli's view anyway - "how come when you die, retire or get dropped you automatically become a better player?", he added
Edit: Shaun Marsh was also speculated when pukovski had concussion. I can't remember anyone new being mentioned all summer. A bit odd.
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@KiwiMurph said in Australia v India:
@NTA could Khawaja be an option instead of Wade? He has a test average above 40..
Has been tried and deemed a failure. Now probably just wants to do short form.
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Just watching the final 20 over highlights again. Great stuff
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@MN5 said in Australia v India:
They got better in the late 80s, much stronger still in the 90s and became arguably the best test team in history in the 2000s.....
While I'm thinking of it, the 90s was the decade they never lost the Ashes
@Donsteppa said in Australia v India:
@MN5 said in Australia v India:
They got better in the late 80s, much stronger still in the 90s and became arguably the best test team in history in the 2000s.....
While I'm thinking of it, the 90s was the decade they never lost the Ashes
For some it was a decade that lasted 20 years :angry_face:
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@KiwiMurph said in Australia v India:
@NTA could Khawaja be an option instead of Wade? He has a test average above 40..
Has been tried and deemed a failure. Now probably just wants to do short form.
️@NTA said in Australia v India:
@KiwiMurph said in Australia v India:
@NTA could Khawaja be an option instead of Wade? He has a test average above 40..
Has been tried and deemed a failure. Now probably just wants to do short form.
️Fair.
Could be worth playing Green as a batsman (who can chip in with the odd over) and pick another 5th bowling option. It's not like Green is bowling that many overs.
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@KiwiMurph Ian Chappell addressed that very question on ABC radio coverage today.
In typical flowery speech, " he got dropped for a reason and somehow not playing makes a him better than he was before!"
Well that's chappelli's view anyway - "how come when you die, retire or get dropped you automatically become a better player?", he addedEdit: Shaun Marsh was also speculated when pukovski had concussion. I can't remember anyone new being mentioned all summer. A bit odd.
@Siam said in Australia v India:
Edit: Shaun Marsh was also speculated when pukovski had concussion. I can't remember anyone new being mentioned all summer. A bit odd.
The Shield season stopped in mid-November and in the early going almost all the early run scorers (Puvolski, Harris, Head, Green, Labuschagne) made the team except Marsh - so hardly anyone with irresistible form knocking on the door.
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@Donsteppa said in Australia v India:
@Siam said in Australia v India:
@Donsteppa test cricket?
My vague memory is that they turned it around with the one day side, then built up to the 89 Ashes series hiding with players like Deano and co alongside Border. Though I did see possibly their worst side being routed at Eden Park in 1986.
Coincided with a time that Sheffield Shield was huge. There were many names that never or hardly played for Oz but would have walked into any national side: law, Elliott, divenuto, hills, siddons, maher even Lehman off the top of my head. You had to make 1000 runs every season for at least 3 to get a mention. Now, nobody gets 1000.
But you only need 11 good ones and absolutely no doubt that cricket Oz is addressing this. You don't get to dominate the world for so long by accident
.When it's all said and done losing 2 series in a row at home to India, the second to India "b" is very unaustralian
@Siam said in Australia v India:
Coincided with a time that Sheffield Shield was huge. There were many names that never or hardly played for Oz but would have walked into any national side: law, Elliott, divenuto, hills, siddons, maher even Lehman off the top of my head. You had to make 1000 runs every season for at least 3 to get a mention. Now, nobody gets 1000.
You can add Bevan to the list too, with a 57 FC average - but he never played a full season due to ODI commitments. Katich and Hodge started posting big seasons toward the end of that decade, but would eventually get a half-decent crack.
That said Aussie's depth is probably better balanced now that it was back then. Yes they are a bit thin on the fringes with the batting, but they have serious bowling depth. They haven't had to trot out a Muller/Cook/Wilson/Nicholson/Dale type in their test attack in the past decade.
In hindsight it is worth looking at the bowling strength in Sheffield Shield through the 1990s, particularly in the second half of the decade, the leading wicket taker lists are dominated by sub-140kmh quicks who would not have looked out of place in a NZ shirt during that period. Queensland had Kaspa & Bichel in and out of test duty, WA had Jo Angel and Brendon Julian which were unique and Colin Miller was an enigma.
But the balance were a mix of ones with international pedigree (Adam Dale, Ian Harvey, Tom Moody, Tony Dodemaide) but more ODI specialists and then some real journeymen like (Saker, Ridgeway, McNamara). I'm still dubious as to how batting on flat tracks against those attacks would have translated against Donald, Walsh/Ambrose, Akram/Younis etc. When those guys played County cricket in the winter not necessarily any better than the leading English journeymen (although still usually in the mix as top run scorers).
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Nothing is more tragic than Australia losing a cricket series at home.
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Nothing is more tragic than Australia losing a cricket series at home.
@Billy-Tell said in Australia v India:
Nothing is more tragic than Australia losing a cricket series at home.
Especially to a "B" team
