Electric Vehicles
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@antipodean said in Electric Vehicles:
@Kirwan said in Electric Vehicles:
@dogmeat said in Electric Vehicles:
@Kirwan don't disagree but I believe PT is more the answer than AV's - as long as there is a reasonable PT option.
Public transport?
Why spend billions when you can distribute the costs in a peer to peer option.
Population density. All the AVs in the world aren't going to move people in Hong Kong, Tokyo etc.
Both I reckon. Definitely public transport, but my usual mode of transport in HKG was walk or taxi to MTR. An AV could do that rather than a taxi. Same amount of vehicles on the road, unless we get to sharing AVs which people don't do in a taxi, and could help a lot. Basically a bus that picks you up from home because you have luggage and drops you off at the train station, and can collect other people on your way there.
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@Kirwan said in Electric Vehicles:
Also worth mentioning that when you get to a majority of AVs on the road congestion will greatly be improved, as the cars can maintain a set speed at a close distance. Would effectively increase the capacity of existing roads.
Yep effectively a train on roads. Human distance following isn't great and you end up with more efficiency with AVs. I've worked with "autopilots" in some way or form for a long time. They are better than humans except when things go wrong. Mundane tasks, fine, but there will still be issues, accidents, failures. Whether it would be fewer than now?
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@Snowy said in Electric Vehicles:
@Kirwan said in Electric Vehicles:
Also worth mentioning that when you get to a majority of AVs on the road congestion will greatly be improved, as the cars can maintain a set speed at a close distance. Would effectively increase the capacity of existing roads.
Yep effectively a train on roads. Human distance following isn't great and you end up with more efficiency with AVs. I've worked with "autopilots" in some way or form for a long time. They are better than humans except when things go wrong. Mundane tasks, fine, but there will still be issues, accidents, failures. Whether it would be fewer than now?
Yep, it's going to be an interesting issue. Humans cause deaths with cars, and so will AVs. How much less will it have to be for people to be comfortable with this?
Trolley problem, right. Kill the driver or that bus full of kids?
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@Kirwan I think it'll be insurance companies that drive adoption. Once they figure out the cars are less likely to kill people or get into at fault accidents they'll pour in. I think this will happen faster than people think.
Remember, it's not the good drivers that get replaced first, it's the 85 year old, the dodgy overseas visitors...
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@JC said in Electric Vehicles:
@Bones said in Electric Vehicles:
@JC farken hell, they do cameras specifically so you can drive your car into a car wash now? I'm bewildered by the juxtaposition of having that much cash to blow you can choose that option yet not afford a hand car wash.
If I could find a place that would do a hand car wash in Hawkes Bay I'd probably use it. Need some Eastern Europeans.
And it's a bit ironic talking about affording things when you never leave the right amount on my nightstand when you leave.
I think calling it a nightstand is a bit generous.
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Probably wrong place, but rather interesting: https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/01/27/bright-green-impossibilities/
To summarize: to get the world to zero emissions by 2050, our options are to build, commission, and bring on-line either:
• One 2.1 gigawatt (GW, 109 watts) nuclear power plant each and every day until 2050, OR
• 3000 two-megawatt (MW, 106 watts) wind turbines each and every day until 2050 plus a 2.1 GW nuclear power plant every day and a half until 2050, assuming there’s not one turbine failure for any reason, OR
• 96 square miles (250 square kilometres) of solar panels each and every day until 2050 plus a 2.1 GW nuclear power plant every day and a half until 2050, assuming not one of the panels fails or is destroyed by hail or wind.
I sincerely hope that everyone can see that any of those alternatives are not just impossible. They are pie-in-the-sky, flying unicorns, bull-goose looney impossible.
Finally, the US consumes about one-sixth of the total global fossil energy. So for the US to get to zero fossil fuel by 2050, just divide all the above figures by six … and they are still flying unicorn, bull-goose looney impossible.
Math. Don’t leave home without it.
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Hyundai are going to do a World Premiere of their Ioniq 5 this evening - 8PM NZ, 6PM Australia. Might be worth a look as they've done some good stuff so far.
While the Ioniq hatch didn't set the world on fire for range, it is a very well appointed vehicle, and highly efficient compared to a lot of EVs on the kWh/km scale. The Kona EV is also a good unit with a good range above 500km (rated). This is supposed to be a step up on both but will probably replace the Ioniq hatch to help Hyundai shift units.
It is probably the beginning of the end for petrol vehicles (hybrid or otherwise) in the Hyundai range, as they move their EV development toward a common platform.
Pricing still probably in the AUD$45k-55k range so pricey for what is a second car in most Australia households...
Hyundai IONIQ 5 | Electric E-SUV | Hyundai Australia
The Hyundai IONIQ 5 is the flagship electric midsize E-SUV, and it’s available from a dealership near you. Discover a new era of clean mobility today.
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@voodoo said in Electric Vehicles:
@nta I don't know why folk get so hung up on range per charge. We can get 500km! We can get 600kms!
Who the heck cares? I'm more than happy to stop after 4 hours and stretch the legs for 20mins.
Does it only take 20 minutes to charge nowadays?
The main reason I haven't seriously considered an electric bike, is my understanding was that a full charge took hours, like overnight, for a car, and would probably still be a couple of hours for a bike. -
@kruse said in Electric Vehicles:
@voodoo said in Electric Vehicles:
@nta I don't know why folk get so hung up on range per charge. We can get 500km! We can get 600kms!
Who the heck cares? I'm more than happy to stop after 4 hours and stretch the legs for 20mins.
Does it only take 20 minutes to charge nowadays?
The main reason I haven't seriously considered an electric bike, is my understanding was that a full charge took hours, like overnight, for a car, and would probably still be a couple of hours for a bike.As always, the answer is "it depends!"
Home charging can be overnight from empty to full. But there are a range of fast chargers being rolled out, and assuming your vehicle is compatible, are pretty quick.
Guys like this claim they can "add a range up to 350 km in 15 m"
Or Tesla's own fleet.
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Looking at a PHEV from Hyundai or it's sister company Kia this year. Seem to get real good reviews here in the UK.
Regularly travel more than 500km and want to wait until fast charging points are more prevalent before going full EV.
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@victor-meldrew said in Electric Vehicles:
Looking at a PHEV from Hyundai or it's sister company Kia this year. Seem to get real good reviews here in the UK.
Regularly travel more than 500km and want to wait until fast charging points are more prevalent before going full EV.
I had my eye on the Volvo XC40 in either PHEV or full battery but the price is a bit exy over here - upwards of $65k for PHEV and close to $90k for battery.
We don't get any incentives for EVs in New South Wales, though in the ACT there are some good moves being made as they head for 100+% renewable. Watching Fully Charged on Youtube it is clear that serious momentum happening in Europe and UK.
The rollout of charge points in the UK is quite good compared to a lot of places (outside Norway) but the problem as I understand it is the multiple vendors wanting to have their own app or card interface. Just put Tap n Go on all of them and that would be fixed.
EDIT: I also note the Kona EV has a range over 500km. If you're stopping to top up for 10-15 minutes at a rapid charger, you could easily cover a couple hundred more than that.
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@kruse said in Electric Vehicles:
@voodoo said in Electric Vehicles:
@nta I don't know why folk get so hung up on range per charge. We can get 500km! We can get 600kms!
Who the heck cares? I'm more than happy to stop after 4 hours and stretch the legs for 20mins.
Does it only take 20 minutes to charge nowadays?
The main reason I haven't seriously considered an electric bike, is my understanding was that a full charge took hours, like overnight, for a car, and would probably still be a couple of hours for a bike.In addition to what @voodoo says above: electric bikes are probably always going to cap out at a certain charging rate simply because the hardware for fast charging adds weight and complexity to the electrical systems - need more wires, more thermal management etc.
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@voodoo said in Electric Vehicles:
@nta I don't know why folk get so hung up on range per charge. We can get 500km! We can get 600kms!
Who the heck cares? I'm more than happy to stop after 4 hours and stretch the legs for 20mins.
Yeah, but you're a city slicker
I think in Australian conditions you need to be talking a vehicle that supports 100kW charging or more if the range is under 350km - and a lot of them are. Additionally we need more charging infrastructure. Otherwise you're not going to get sales volume simply because of FUD, and then you're not going to get the service and support because of low volume.
My wife could happily get away with a range under 300km (so, the Ioniq) because most of the charging minutes would be done in our "fuel station" at home. A lot of people could do it for their second car on that basis - BUT not many people can afford $50K for the privilege of saving $2000 in petrol every year.
There is still a lot of pushback easilly generated by "what about people in the country who drive 500km every day!" which of course ignores that these are the tiny minority and most volume is based on city sales anyway.
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Went to a traffic crash the other day involving a Tesla. The Firies rocked up to do their usual thing, (making the vehicles safe) noticed it was a Tesla and stood around scratching their heads. They did not know what to do. A couple of long phone calls later and all they could do was shrug their shoulders and hope nothing went to shit.
Also heard EVs are very expensive to repair when in a crash so insurance companies are writing them off more freely than they do with conventional vehicles. Not sure if that's true or not.
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@nta said in Electric Vehicles:
@kruse said in Electric Vehicles:
@voodoo said in Electric Vehicles:
@nta I don't know why folk get so hung up on range per charge. We can get 500km! We can get 600kms!
Who the heck cares? I'm more than happy to stop after 4 hours and stretch the legs for 20mins.
Does it only take 20 minutes to charge nowadays?
The main reason I haven't seriously considered an electric bike, is my understanding was that a full charge took hours, like overnight, for a car, and would probably still be a couple of hours for a bike.In addition to what @voodoo says above: electric bikes are probably always going to cap out at a certain charging rate simply because the hardware for fast charging adds weight and complexity to the electrical systems - need more wires, more thermal management etc.
Cheers - I hadn't realised that the fast-charging capability required more (and therefore heavier) hardware... but thinking about it, obviously it does - cause otherwise it wouldn't be "fast charging", it would just be "standard charging".
I see Energica is claiming they've got bikes which can do 400km, and a "quick charge" back to 80% in 42 minutes.
I could probably live with that, with a bit of extra thought around routes. -
@nta said in Electric Vehicles:
The rollout of charge points in the UK is quite good compared to a lot of places (outside Norway) but the problem as I understand it is the multiple vendors wanting to have their own app or card interface. Just put Tap n Go on all of them and that would be fixed.
There's some apps becoming available which allow you to pre-book and pay but the car dealers tell me the big problem is the charging vendors aren't really co-operating. Think it's something the government could/should step in and set some rules to make it as seamless as poss.
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@kruse said in Electric Vehicles:
I see Energica is claiming they've got bikes which can do 400km, and a "quick charge" back to 80% in 42 minutes.
Not me. Imagine getting to the recharge spot moments after someone else and having to wait for them before you can start. 42 minutes becomes 84. Stuff that. They would need way more charging outlets than potential customers.
Someone mentioned prebooking. Stuff that too. I don't want to be constrained by a booking. My stress would go through the roof if I was running late.
Ultra Fast Electric Car Charging Stations | Evie Networks
