'Super Rugby' 2021
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@duluth It won't surprise you that I don't want anything to replace the NPC. To me, that's still the most interesting competition and the feeder competition to the next level, whatever that's going to look like. The step from club/school rugby to any form of Super Rugby is too big IMO.
For a SR+Japanese clubs competition, I think something like a 2-conference format with an Japanese conference and a Trans- Ta$man Pasifika conference, followed by play-offs between an x-number of highest ranked teams of each conference, culminating in a final, seems - logistically - the most feasible format. With "x" being the number of teams that allows the organisers to fit in a certain number of games in a playing window that is acceptable from a player welfare point of view and leaves enough time in-between this competition and the start of NPC. I think that also comes closest to the proposed new comp in Japan from 2022.
That World Club Competition is still on the cards, too. No idea about what time of the year that is to be played, though.
@stargazer said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@duluth It won't surprise you that I don't want anything to replace the NPC. To me, that's still the most interesting competition and the feeder competition to the next level, whatever that's going to look like. The step from club/school rugby to any form of Super Rugby is too big IMO.
That's at odds with the modern practice of school -> academy -> SR.
NPC is relegated to second chance saloon.
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You would need to have a full SR Development competition or U20 competition to bridge any gap between 1st XV and SR. Academies would only cater for the latter competition as they are usually for the 18-21 yr old players who usually develop via the provincial age-group teams (e.g. U19s) before being promoted to being full-time professionals.
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You would need to have a full SR Development competition or U20 competition to bridge any gap between 1st XV and SR. Academies would only cater for the latter competition as they are usually for the 18-21 yr old players who usually develop via the provincial age-group teams (e.g. U19s) before being promoted to being full-time professionals.
@bovidae said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
You would need to have a full SR Development competition or U20 competition to bridge any gap between 1st XV and SR. Academies would only cater for the latter competition as they are usually for the 18-21 yr old players who usually develop via the provincial age-group teams (e.g. U19s) before being promoted to being full-time professionals.
That's straight from a SR coach's mouth.
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You would need to have a full SR Development competition or U20 competition to bridge any gap between 1st XV and SR. Academies would only cater for the latter competition as they are usually for the 18-21 yr old players who usually develop via the provincial age-group teams (e.g. U19s) before being promoted to being full-time professionals.
@bovidae said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
You would need to have a full SR Development competition or U20 competition to bridge any gap between 1st XV and SR. Academies would only cater for the latter competition as they are usually for the 18-21 yr old players who usually develop via the provincial age-group teams (e.g. U19s) before being promoted to being full-time professionals.
an if you did that i think you'd need a draft of those development players to stop teams stock piling the youth, develop as many as you like but you can only protect so many and the rest are up for grabs in the draft
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@bovidae said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
You would need to have a full SR Development competition or U20 competition to bridge any gap between 1st XV and SR. Academies would only cater for the latter competition as they are usually for the 18-21 yr old players who usually develop via the provincial age-group teams (e.g. U19s) before being promoted to being full-time professionals.
an if you did that i think you'd need a draft of those development players to stop teams stock piling the youth, develop as many as you like but you can only protect so many and the rest are up for grabs in the draft
@kiwiwomble problem is, there isnt enough money in the sport at that level to make a draft workable.
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@kiwiwomble problem is, there isnt enough money in the sport at that level to make a draft workable.
@taniwharugby do you mean bidding wars for players? i thought drafts were a way around big money, bottom teams get first choice to rookies kind of deal
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@taniwharugby do you mean bidding wars for players? i thought drafts were a way around big money, bottom teams get first choice to rookies kind of deal
@kiwiwomble so how do these kids, cos thats who most of those drafted will be, live in this new location, if on a dev contract which is likely to be <$30,000 a year (basic NPC contracts are <$15,000) so am just guessing.
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I'm not sure a draft would work in NZ rugby.
The issue is forcing people to move to a region they may not want to (away from family etc). The easier option would be to limit how many players you can have in your academy from outside your region to encourage franchises to identify and develop local talent. Obviously that would hugely benefit the Blues and disadvantage the Highlanders based on population. So no easy solution.
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@kiwiwomble so how do these kids, cos thats who most of those drafted will be, live in this new location, if on a dev contract which is likely to be <$30,000 a year (basic NPC contracts are <$15,000) so am just guessing.
@taniwharugby I'm talking about about after the development when they go pro.
the teams run a development comp where they concentrate on the youth in the in region, players that might be able to live at home.
@bovidae said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
I'm not sure a draft would work in NZ rugby.
The issue is forcing people to move to a region they may not want to (away from family etc). The easier option would be to limit how many players you can have in your academy from outside your region to encourage franchises to identify and develop local talent. Obviously that would hugely benefit the Blues and disadvantage the Highlanders based on population. So no easy solution.
they already move around, highlanders famously full of people from Ta$man and HB, and drafts arent compulsory, in the AFL theyve been turned down, but its a gamble you dont get picked up by someone else
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where there is agreement aside for a second, this is a great line!
"6 Shannon Frizell (Highlanders): Came out breathing fire after halftime and started eating up Chiefs ball carriers to help shift the momentum of the game."
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Grand Final Winner-Super Rugby Aotearoa 2021
Crusaders
1.80Blues
2.75Highlanders
13.00Hurricanes
18.00Chiefs
20.00@tim said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Grand Final Winner-Super Rugby Aotearoa 2021
Crusaders
1.80Blues
2.75Highlanders
13.00Hurricanes
18.00Chiefs
20.00Chiefs are massive unders there
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Grand Final Winner-Super Rugby Aotearoa 2021
Crusaders
1.80Blues
2.75Highlanders
13.00Hurricanes
18.00Chiefs
20.00@tim said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Grand Final Winner-Super Rugby Aotearoa 2021
Crusaders
1.80Blues
2.75Highlanders
13.00Hurricanes
18.00Chiefs
20.00that is huge movement from last week
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where there is agreement aside for a second, this is a great line!
"6 Shannon Frizell (Highlanders): Came out breathing fire after halftime and started eating up Chiefs ball carriers to help shift the momentum of the game."
@kiwiwomble fuck I hate the Lomu comparisons. Every single time a Māori/Pasifika winger bunts a couple of players off and scores some tries, there's always a fucking idiot banging on about how they're "the next Lomu."
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This better not mess with the depth of the existing teams ...
@tim I hope they're right about Pasifika players being keen to return from Europe and Japan, even if it means that they'll earn less.
Moana Pasifika won't lead to growth of rugby in Tonga and Samoa if they're going to sign NZ players of Tongan and Samoan descent.
I'm less worried about the Fijian team. The Fijian Drua only had players from Fiji and they may be able to get a few returnees, too. Imagine if they could convince players like Peceli Yato, Semi Radradra, Alivereti Raka, even Nemani Nadolo etc to play for them. Would be great!
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Never has a player retired and got out of touch so fast...
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@tim I hope they're right about Pasifika players being keen to return from Europe and Japan, even if it means that they'll earn less.
Moana Pasifika won't lead to growth of rugby in Tonga and Samoa if they're going to sign NZ players of Tongan and Samoan descent.
I'm less worried about the Fijian team. The Fijian Drua only had players from Fiji and they may be able to get a few returnees, too. Imagine if they could convince players like Peceli Yato, Semi Radradra, Alivereti Raka, even Nemani Nadolo etc to play for them. Would be great!
@stargazer said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@tim I hope they're right about Pasifika players being keen to return from Europe and Japan, even if it means that they'll earn less.
Moana Pasifika won't lead to growth of rugby in Tonga and Samoa if they're going to sign NZ players of Tongan and Samoan descent.
I'm less worried about the Fijian team. The Fijian Drua only had players from Fiji and they may be able to get a few returnees, too. Imagine if they could convince players like Peceli Yato, Semi Radradra, Alivereti Raka, even Nemani Nadolo etc to play for them. Would be great!
Have to say I’d be delighted with a super 12 round robin format with our Aussie neighbours and added pacific flair. No travel burden, no South African politics, no turgid NH style box kicking rugby, no southern kings. If the Fiji expats you listed above returned they would be dynamite to watch.
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@tim I hope they're right about Pasifika players being keen to return from Europe and Japan, even if it means that they'll earn less.
Moana Pasifika won't lead to growth of rugby in Tonga and Samoa if they're going to sign NZ players of Tongan and Samoan descent.
I'm less worried about the Fijian team. The Fijian Drua only had players from Fiji and they may be able to get a few returnees, too. Imagine if they could convince players like Peceli Yato, Semi Radradra, Alivereti Raka, even Nemani Nadolo etc to play for them. Would be great!
@stargazer
I'm hoping the Moana Pacifika team is largely capped internationals or not NZ-born. Otherwise you are creating another franchise in an already diluted player pool, and weakening other teams in the process. -
@stargazer
I'm hoping the Moana Pacifika team is largely capped internationals or not NZ-born. Otherwise you are creating another franchise in an already diluted player pool, and weakening other teams in the process.@mofitzy_ said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@stargazer
I'm hoping the Moana Pacifika team is largely capped internationals or not NZ-born. Otherwise you are creating another franchise in an already diluted player pool, and weakening other teams in the process.Considering that Fiji have their own SR team and have the 6th most registered players by country, and the Tongan and Samoan international teams rely on NZ born players (Madagascar has more registered players than either country), this will be another dilution of our SR teams. There is no way you'll have big name players taking 75%+ pay cuts to play SR. This is just another Auckland based team, taking mostly NZ players, and fans from the blues.
I would imagine the team will have similar rules to other SR teams, limited to those eligibile to play for a Pacific team. Otherwise how is it a Pacific team? Think about that, that will rule out any capped internationals from other nations, like Kahui for ex, who could be good for the team. The already capped Samoan and Tongan players are on mostly good to excellent money in the NH, so they won't come. So you need a team of players, that haven't had their eligibility captured, that are professionals, or almost, and are SR level. Where are those players? Obviously there will be a few from the islands, but their comps are not anywhere near NPC level. You could do it with locals of you accepted getting spanked for a lot of years and someone had the big pockets to pay for a losing team for those years until hopefully the base had improved. Argentina proved it could be done, but that was one Union and a good player numbers base.
If it was based in the islands with local players (like the Drua), then it could be different, but I don't think it is. This is sunwolves Mark 2, at least those guys played their home games in Japan.
