Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final
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@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@crazy-horse Yeah - I worded that a bit inaccurately.
Whether the risk of a talented, slightly makeshift rookie test player in Conway outweighs the more limited, but more proven Blundell.
(In my mind, it probably does, because Blundell himself is a bit makeshift - and the Test Championship final is uncharted territory for everyone - including Kane, Rossco and Kohli!).
But, experience will trump lots of things, so I'm not onboard with playing Ravindra. I'd pick Santner (or maybe Ajaz) if we expect spinners to have some role, CdG if we can get away without a spinner.
Historically we have had some pretty good returns from test debutants against good opposition especially opening and from LHBs. I think the gamble is to keep Conway out.
@rotated said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@crazy-horse Yeah - I worded that a bit inaccurately.
Whether the risk of a talented, slightly makeshift rookie test player in Conway outweighs the more limited, but more proven Blundell.
(In my mind, it probably does, because Blundell himself is a bit makeshift - and the Test Championship final is uncharted territory for everyone - including Kane, Rossco and Kohli!).
But, experience will trump lots of things, so I'm not onboard with playing Ravindra. I'd pick Santner (or maybe Ajaz) if we expect spinners to have some role, CdG if we can get away without a spinner.
Historically we have had some pretty good returns from test debutants against good opposition especially opening and from LHBs. I think the gamble is to keep Conway out.
My worry with Conway is the fact we already have proven test performers like KW, Rossco, Latham and Nicholls, in other words out of those four blokes the lowest test average is 42 and that’s Latham and openers generally average a bit less. Only Oz and India can remotely match that batting unit. With the ebbs and flows of selections and class players only gracing a team for a wee while are we sure this guy is gonna fit in and dominate like we hope he will ?
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@mn5 said in Black Caps tour to England:
@canefan said in Black Caps tour to England:
@mn5 Devon will be looking to run up the scores. Have our batting stocks ever been this strong? I'd say no
Even if Martin Donnelly, Glenn Turner, Martin Crowe and Bert Sutcliffe all played in the same era I’d still say no.
I really don't follow cricket that much these days, but I can't recall a period when so many quality NZ players seemingly rolling off a conveyor belt.
Used to be big debates about over-working quality players and carefully nurturing possibly talent - now it seems to be about which quality player not to play.
Good place to be.
@victor-meldrew said in Black Caps tour to England:
I can't recall a period when so many quality NZ players seemingly rolling off a conveyor belt.
We call it South Africa.
I'm taking the piss of course, but we do appreciate their help.
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@victor-meldrew said in Black Caps tour to England:
I can't recall a period when so many quality NZ players seemingly rolling off a conveyor belt.
We call it South Africa.
I'm taking the piss of course, but we do appreciate their help.
@snowy said in Black Caps tour to England:
@victor-meldrew said in Black Caps tour to England:
I can't recall a period when so many quality NZ players seemingly rolling off a conveyor belt.
We call it South Africa.
I'm taking the piss of course, but we do appreciate their help.
They gave England one of my favourite batsmen ever in Kevin Pietersen, Jonathan Trott went ok too.
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@snowy said in Black Caps tour to England:
@victor-meldrew said in Black Caps tour to England:
I can't recall a period when so many quality NZ players seemingly rolling off a conveyor belt.
We call it South Africa.
I'm taking the piss of course, but we do appreciate their help.
They gave England one of my favourite batsmen ever in Kevin Pietersen, Jonathan Trott went ok too.
@mn5 said in Black Caps tour to England:
@snowy said in Black Caps tour to England:
@victor-meldrew said in Black Caps tour to England:
I can't recall a period when so many quality NZ players seemingly rolling off a conveyor belt.
We call it South Africa.
I'm taking the piss of course, but we do appreciate their help.
They gave England one of my favourite batsmen ever in Kevin Pietersen, Jonathan Trott went ok too.
Helped out Aus at times too. Mostly a generous bunch apart from a brief period of selfishness when they decided to be quite good, and kept guys like Steyn, De Villiers, etc instead of sharing nicely with others.
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@crazy-horse said in Black Caps tour to England:
@nzzp said in Black Caps tour to England:
@snowy said in Black Caps tour to England:
@crazy-horse said in Black Caps tour to England:
@snowy if he is going to be squeezed in I would have him replace Nichols. Nichols rode his luck big time this season.
I agree, but it is a tough call.
really tough! Drop a bloke averaging 44?
http://www.cricmetric.com/playerstats.py?player=HM Nicholls&role=batsman
It's either him or Blundell.
Nichols was incredibly lucky this year. Didn't someone post a while ago what his scores would have looked like this year if all the chances he gave were taken? It wouldn't be pretty reading.
That would be me:
Nicholls this summer if he'd been out the first genuine chance he'd given: 7, 47, 6, 11, 3. Average 14.6.
Nicholls this summer if he'd been out the second genuine chance he'd given: 7, 47, 56, 11, 86. Average 41.4
Nicholls this summer after a million chances: 7, 174, 56, 11, 138*. Average 96.5.I hoped this would come in handy later cos it took me a solid 12 minutes.
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@rotated said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@crazy-horse Yeah - I worded that a bit inaccurately.
Whether the risk of a talented, slightly makeshift rookie test player in Conway outweighs the more limited, but more proven Blundell.
(In my mind, it probably does, because Blundell himself is a bit makeshift - and the Test Championship final is uncharted territory for everyone - including Kane, Rossco and Kohli!).
But, experience will trump lots of things, so I'm not onboard with playing Ravindra. I'd pick Santner (or maybe Ajaz) if we expect spinners to have some role, CdG if we can get away without a spinner.
Historically we have had some pretty good returns from test debutants against good opposition especially opening and from LHBs. I think the gamble is to keep Conway out.
My worry with Conway is the fact we already have proven test performers like KW, Rossco, Latham and Nicholls, in other words out of those four blokes the lowest test average is 42 and that’s Latham and openers generally average a bit less. Only Oz and India can remotely match that batting unit. With the ebbs and flows of selections and class players only gracing a team for a wee while are we sure this guy is gonna fit in and dominate like we hope he will ?
@mn5 said in Black Caps tour to England:
@rotated said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@crazy-horse Yeah - I worded that a bit inaccurately.
Whether the risk of a talented, slightly makeshift rookie test player in Conway outweighs the more limited, but more proven Blundell.
(In my mind, it probably does, because Blundell himself is a bit makeshift - and the Test Championship final is uncharted territory for everyone - including Kane, Rossco and Kohli!).
But, experience will trump lots of things, so I'm not onboard with playing Ravindra. I'd pick Santner (or maybe Ajaz) if we expect spinners to have some role, CdG if we can get away without a spinner.
Historically we have had some pretty good returns from test debutants against good opposition especially opening and from LHBs. I think the gamble is to keep Conway out.
My worry with Conway is the fact we already have proven test performers like KW, Rossco, Latham and Nicholls, in other words out of those four blokes the lowest test average is 42 and that’s Latham and openers generally average a bit less. Only Oz and India can remotely match that batting unit. With the ebbs and flows of selections and class players only gracing a team for a wee while are we sure this guy is gonna fit in and dominate like we hope he will ?
It is almost a carbon copy of the Kevin Pietersen situation before the 2005 Ashes - except Thorpe was a much better player than Blundell. Pietersen proved it in the ODIs immediately after eligibility but it was a big call to blood him in the most important series in years after the team had built so well under Vaughn. It was the right call.
In this case assuming it is the opening spot up for grabs it almost make the decision easier as there is always a chance of getting a peach early on.
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@mn5 said in Black Caps tour to England:
@snowy said in Black Caps tour to England:
@victor-meldrew said in Black Caps tour to England:
I can't recall a period when so many quality NZ players seemingly rolling off a conveyor belt.
We call it South Africa.
I'm taking the piss of course, but we do appreciate their help.
They gave England one of my favourite batsmen ever in Kevin Pietersen, Jonathan Trott went ok too.
Helped out Aus at times too. Mostly a generous bunch apart from a brief period of selfishness when they decided to be quite good, and kept guys like Steyn, De Villiers, etc instead of sharing nicely with others.
@snowy said in Black Caps tour to England:
Helped out Aus at times too. Mostly a generous bunch apart from a brief period of selfishness when they decided to be quite good, and kept guys like Steyn, De Villiers, etc instead of sharing nicely with others.
Pity they don't make Covid vaccines, then...
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@snowy said in Black Caps tour to England:
Helped out Aus at times too. Mostly a generous bunch apart from a brief period of selfishness when they decided to be quite good, and kept guys like Steyn, De Villiers, etc instead of sharing nicely with others.
Pity they don't make Covid vaccines, then...
@victor-meldrew said in Black Caps tour to England:
@snowy said in Black Caps tour to England:
Helped out Aus at times too. Mostly a generous bunch apart from a brief period of selfishness when they decided to be quite good, and kept guys like Steyn, De Villiers, etc instead of sharing nicely with others.
Pity they don't make Covid vaccines, then...
They've been sharing their own strain...
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@snowy said in Black Caps tour to England:
@victor-meldrew said in Black Caps tour to England:
I can't recall a period when so many quality NZ players seemingly rolling off a conveyor belt.
We call it South Africa.
I'm taking the piss of course, but we do appreciate their help.
They gave England one of my favourite batsmen ever in Kevin Pietersen, Jonathan Trott went ok too.
@mn5 said in Black Caps tour to England:
@snowy said in Black Caps tour to England:
@victor-meldrew said in Black Caps tour to England:
I can't recall a period when so many quality NZ players seemingly rolling off a conveyor belt.
We call it South Africa.
I'm taking the piss of course, but we do appreciate their help.
They gave England one of my favourite batsmen ever in Kevin Pietersen, Jonathan Trott went ok too.
Allan Lamb, Robin and Chris Smith, Tony Greig. They’ve been bloody good to us for a while.
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@mn5 said in Black Caps tour to England:
@snowy said in Black Caps tour to England:
@victor-meldrew said in Black Caps tour to England:
I can't recall a period when so many quality NZ players seemingly rolling off a conveyor belt.
We call it South Africa.
I'm taking the piss of course, but we do appreciate their help.
They gave England one of my favourite batsmen ever in Kevin Pietersen, Jonathan Trott went ok too.
Helped out Aus at times too. Mostly a generous bunch apart from a brief period of selfishness when they decided to be quite good, and kept guys like Steyn, De Villiers, etc instead of sharing nicely with others.
@snowy said in Black Caps tour to England:
@mn5 said in Black Caps tour to England:
@snowy said in Black Caps tour to England:
@victor-meldrew said in Black Caps tour to England:
I can't recall a period when so many quality NZ players seemingly rolling off a conveyor belt.
We call it South Africa.
I'm taking the piss of course, but we do appreciate their help.
They gave England one of my favourite batsmen ever in Kevin Pietersen, Jonathan Trott went ok too.
Helped out Aus at times too. Mostly a generous bunch apart from a brief period of selfishness when they decided to be quite good, and kept guys like Steyn, De Villiers, etc instead of sharing nicely with others.
I wouldn’t have minded Jacques Kallis too. I get the feeling he might have forced Astle, McMillan or even Fleming onto the sidelines.
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@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@crazy-horse Yeah - I worded that a bit inaccurately.
Whether the risk of a talented, slightly makeshift rookie test player in Conway outweighs the more limited, but more proven Blundell.
(In my mind, it probably does, because Blundell himself is a bit makeshift - and the Test Championship final is uncharted territory for everyone - including Kane, Rossco and Kohli!).
But, experience will trump lots of things, so I'm not onboard with playing Ravindra. I'd pick Santner (or maybe Ajaz) if we expect spinners to have some role, CdG if we can get away without a spinner.
Historically we have had some pretty good returns from test debutants against good opposition especially opening and from LHBs. I think the gamble is to keep Conway out.
@rotated said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@crazy-horse Yeah - I worded that a bit inaccurately.
Whether the risk of a talented, slightly makeshift rookie test player in Conway outweighs the more limited, but more proven Blundell.
(In my mind, it probably does, because Blundell himself is a bit makeshift - and the Test Championship final is uncharted territory for everyone - including Kane, Rossco and Kohli!).
But, experience will trump lots of things, so I'm not onboard with playing Ravindra. I'd pick Santner (or maybe Ajaz) if we expect spinners to have some role, CdG if we can get away without a spinner.
Historically we have had some pretty good returns from test debutants ......
Ken Rutherford just got a shiver down his spine.
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@rotated said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@crazy-horse Yeah - I worded that a bit inaccurately.
Whether the risk of a talented, slightly makeshift rookie test player in Conway outweighs the more limited, but more proven Blundell.
(In my mind, it probably does, because Blundell himself is a bit makeshift - and the Test Championship final is uncharted territory for everyone - including Kane, Rossco and Kohli!).
But, experience will trump lots of things, so I'm not onboard with playing Ravindra. I'd pick Santner (or maybe Ajaz) if we expect spinners to have some role, CdG if we can get away without a spinner.
Historically we have had some pretty good returns from test debutants ......
Ken Rutherford just got a shiver down his spine.
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@crucial said in Black Caps tour to England:
Ken Rutherford just got a shiver down his spine.
Didn't Marty have a bit of a rough start too?
@snowy said in Black Caps tour to England:
@crucial said in Black Caps tour to England:
Ken Rutherford just got a shiver down his spine.
Didn't Marty have a bit of a rough start too?
He did, @Virgil always argued if you took the start out of his career ( and also a few bad patches at the end ) that he’d have had a test average of 56.
This argument can of course be made about any cricketer in history though.
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@donsteppa said in Black Caps tour to England:
Though there's the "Greatbatch of scones" debut from the 80's too.
Started with a hiss and a roar then settled into Black Caps stock standard territory as his career progressed.
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@donsteppa said in Black Caps tour to England:
Though there's the "Greatbatch of scones" debut from the 80's too.
Started with a hiss and a roar then settled into Black Caps stock standard territory as his career progressed.
@mn5 said in Black Caps tour to England:
@donsteppa said in Black Caps tour to England:
Though there's the "Greatbatch of scones" debut from the 80's too.
Started with a hiss and a roar then settled into Black Caps stock standard territory as his career progressed.
Yep, sometimes the better debuts didn't translate into future form. Sinclair springs to mind.
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@rotated said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@crazy-horse Yeah - I worded that a bit inaccurately.
Whether the risk of a talented, slightly makeshift rookie test player in Conway outweighs the more limited, but more proven Blundell.
(In my mind, it probably does, because Blundell himself is a bit makeshift - and the Test Championship final is uncharted territory for everyone - including Kane, Rossco and Kohli!).
But, experience will trump lots of things, so I'm not onboard with playing Ravindra. I'd pick Santner (or maybe Ajaz) if we expect spinners to have some role, CdG if we can get away without a spinner.
Historically we have had some pretty good returns from test debutants ......
Ken Rutherford just got a shiver down his spine.
@crucial said in Black Caps tour to England:
@rotated said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@crazy-horse Yeah - I worded that a bit inaccurately.
Whether the risk of a talented, slightly makeshift rookie test player in Conway outweighs the more limited, but more proven Blundell.
(In my mind, it probably does, because Blundell himself is a bit makeshift - and the Test Championship final is uncharted territory for everyone - including Kane, Rossco and Kohli!).
But, experience will trump lots of things, so I'm not onboard with playing Ravindra. I'd pick Santner (or maybe Ajaz) if we expect spinners to have some role, CdG if we can get away without a spinner.
Historically we have had some pretty good returns from test debutants ......
Ken Rutherford just got a shiver down his spine.
Ken had to face the might of the Windies at their peak in their back yard. A lesser man would have withered away after an experience like that
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@mn5 said in Black Caps tour to England:
@donsteppa said in Black Caps tour to England:
Though there's the "Greatbatch of scones" debut from the 80's too.
Started with a hiss and a roar then settled into Black Caps stock standard territory as his career progressed.
Yep, sometimes the better debuts didn't translate into future form. Sinclair springs to mind.
@donsteppa said in Black Caps tour to England:
@mn5 said in Black Caps tour to England:
@donsteppa said in Black Caps tour to England:
Though there's the "Greatbatch of scones" debut from the 80's too.
Started with a hiss and a roar then settled into Black Caps stock standard territory as his career progressed.
Yep, sometimes the better debuts didn't translate into future form. Sinclair springs to mind.
No research obviously, but Lou Vincent as well?
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@mn5 said in Black Caps tour to England:
@donsteppa said in Black Caps tour to England:
Though there's the "Greatbatch of scones" debut from the 80's too.
Started with a hiss and a roar then settled into Black Caps stock standard territory as his career progressed.
Yep, sometimes the better debuts didn't translate into future form. Sinclair springs to mind.
@donsteppa said in Black Caps tour to England:
@mn5 said in Black Caps tour to England:
@donsteppa said in Black Caps tour to England:
Though there's the "Greatbatch of scones" debut from the 80's too.
Started with a hiss and a roar then settled into Black Caps stock standard territory as his career progressed.
Yep, sometimes the better debuts didn't translate into future form. Sinclair springs to mind.
Two double hundreds in 12 tests from memory.
Which is why we should all be careful about fluffing Kyle Jamieson too much.
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@donsteppa said in Black Caps tour to England:
@mn5 said in Black Caps tour to England:
@donsteppa said in Black Caps tour to England:
Though there's the "Greatbatch of scones" debut from the 80's too.
Started with a hiss and a roar then settled into Black Caps stock standard territory as his career progressed.
Yep, sometimes the better debuts didn't translate into future form. Sinclair springs to mind.
No research obviously, but Lou Vincent as well?
@canefan said in Black Caps tour to England:
No research obviously, but Lou Vincent as well?
Yes. Sixth kiwi to get a ton on debut. Only the second to do it overseas.
Would have been handy when they decided that this was important at Lords:
"Vincent equalled the most runs scored in boundaries (118 runs in boundaries) by a batsman in an ODI innings, when he scored 172 against Zimbabwe on 24 August 2005."
