Electric Vehicles
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@nostrildamus said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@catogrande I think the tesla 3 long range is about 300 miles? Arguably not the best but not too bad.
What would worry me about Teslas:
-the build quality (improved I hear)
-parts and service
-the wife driving it (she doesn't like complex cars)
-oh and me too, I doubt it is a car I can tinker around with at home..300 miles is pretty good but it’s not just that. How long to re-charge the thing? Not that I’m bashing e cars, I’ve come to agree that it is likely to be the way forward but that it will take many more steps in feasibility to get there. It’s the future but not yet the answer.
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@catogrande friend of mine has a leaf in the states, it charges over nights and never has any dramas, very reliable (but in adverse climates it does not have the best battery tech).
tesla 3: https://pod-point.com/guides/vehicles/tesla/2021/model-3
The Kias, new Hyundais and Nissans are getting close to 300 miles and the next iteration of battery technology should be a giant step forward.
Problems: fighting over charging stations, paying extra for quicker charging at home, crazy taxes (read: parts of Australia), depreciation, changing the battery... -
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@canefan said in Investing - Property/Shares:
Some of the Chinese EV companies are exploring battery swapping stations to get around issues with slow charging
That sounds like a sensible stop gap measure. The elephant in the room though is battery disposal. Questions are already being asked about how green EVs really are. Energy is green but the hardware, for want of a better word, is another thing. Long way to go yet.
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@catogrande said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@canefan said in Investing - Property/Shares:
Some of the Chinese EV companies are exploring battery swapping stations to get around issues with slow charging
That sounds like a sensible stop gap measure. The elephant in the room though is battery disposal. Questions are already being asked about how green EVs really are. Energy is green but the hardware, for want of a better word, is another thing. Long way to go yet.
If it worked like swapa bottle gas, that'd be great
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@catogrande said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@canefan said in Investing - Property/Shares:
Some of the Chinese EV companies are exploring battery swapping stations to get around issues with slow charging
That sounds like a sensible stop gap measure. The elephant in the room though is battery disposal. Questions are already being asked about how green EVs really are. Energy is green but the hardware, for want of a better word, is another thing. Long way to go yet.
I agree. Jeremy Clarkson used to go on about how much environmental cost was associated with making those batteries
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@canefan said in Electric Vehicles:
@catogrande said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@canefan said in Investing - Property/Shares:
Some of the Chinese EV companies are exploring battery swapping stations to get around issues with slow charging
That sounds like a sensible stop gap measure. The elephant in the room though is battery disposal. Questions are already being asked about how green EVs really are. Energy is green but the hardware, for want of a better word, is another thing. Long way to go yet.
I agree. Jeremy Clarkson used to go on about how much environmental cost was associated with making those batteries
the energy used for rigs to drill oil is mindblowing.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/ajes.12336And it is not like current cars don't use batteries and toxic chemicals
How Toxic Is Your Car? | Trellis
The "new car smell" that has seeped into the public consciousness is the byproduct of poisonous chemicals used to manufacture automobiles. A new website lists the best and worst cars and urges automakers to make driving safer from the inside.
I expect future batteries to move away from lithium and already battery swapping is a thing in Asia but some Tesla are already prepared for it
https://www.tesla.com/videos/battery-swap-event -
@nostrildamus said in Electric Vehicles:
@canefan said in Electric Vehicles:
@catogrande said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@canefan said in Investing - Property/Shares:
Some of the Chinese EV companies are exploring battery swapping stations to get around issues with slow charging
That sounds like a sensible stop gap measure. The elephant in the room though is battery disposal. Questions are already being asked about how green EVs really are. Energy is green but the hardware, for want of a better word, is another thing. Long way to go yet.
I agree. Jeremy Clarkson used to go on about how much environmental cost was associated with making those batteries
the energy used for rigs to drill oil is mindblowing.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/ajes.12336And it is not like current cars don't use batteries and toxic chemicals
How Toxic Is Your Car? | Trellis
The "new car smell" that has seeped into the public consciousness is the byproduct of poisonous chemicals used to manufacture automobiles. A new website lists the best and worst cars and urges automakers to make driving safer from the inside.
I expect future batteries to move away from lithium and already battery swapping is a thing in Asia but some Tesla are already prepared for it
https://www.tesla.com/videos/battery-swap-eventI remember watching that live. 8 years ago.
I really thought by now battery swap stations would be everywhere.
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@majorrage said in Electric Vehicles:
@nostrildamus said in Electric Vehicles:
@canefan said in Electric Vehicles:
@catogrande said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@canefan said in Investing - Property/Shares:
Some of the Chinese EV companies are exploring battery swapping stations to get around issues with slow charging
That sounds like a sensible stop gap measure. The elephant in the room though is battery disposal. Questions are already being asked about how green EVs really are. Energy is green but the hardware, for want of a better word, is another thing. Long way to go yet.
I agree. Jeremy Clarkson used to go on about how much environmental cost was associated with making those batteries
the energy used for rigs to drill oil is mindblowing.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/ajes.12336And it is not like current cars don't use batteries and toxic chemicals
How Toxic Is Your Car? | Trellis
The "new car smell" that has seeped into the public consciousness is the byproduct of poisonous chemicals used to manufacture automobiles. A new website lists the best and worst cars and urges automakers to make driving safer from the inside.
I expect future batteries to move away from lithium and already battery swapping is a thing in Asia but some Tesla are already prepared for it
https://www.tesla.com/videos/battery-swap-eventI remember watching that live. 8 years ago.
I really thought by now battery swap stations would be everywhere.
That would require substantial engineering standardisation. Even in common platforms there'd be considerable difficulty I'd imagine with all the connections and whether the battery pack was a stressed member.
Given chemistry, it seems to me that there won't be a great leap forward in range vs battery charge rate and life so the reality would be buy a car that fulfils 95% of your yearly needs and rent a larger capacity (range) vehicle or take more time to get to your destination or fly...
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@majorrage yes there are some major infrastructure issues still.
A problem is though if everyone swaps to electric by 2030-35 what happens to the old ICE cars... -
@catogrande said in Electric Vehicles:
@canefan said in Investing - Property/Shares:
Some of the Chinese EV companies are exploring battery swapping stations to get around issues with slow charging
That sounds like a sensible stop gap measure. The elephant in the room though is battery disposal. Questions are already being asked about how green EVs really are. Energy is green but the hardware, for want of a better word, is another thing. Long way to go yet.
https://www.tesla.com/en_AU/support/sustainability-recycling
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@antipodean said in Electric Vehicles:
@majorrage said in Electric Vehicles:
@nostrildamus said in Electric Vehicles:
@canefan said in Electric Vehicles:
@catogrande said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@canefan said in Investing - Property/Shares:
Some of the Chinese EV companies are exploring battery swapping stations to get around issues with slow charging
That sounds like a sensible stop gap measure. The elephant in the room though is battery disposal. Questions are already being asked about how green EVs really are. Energy is green but the hardware, for want of a better word, is another thing. Long way to go yet.
I agree. Jeremy Clarkson used to go on about how much environmental cost was associated with making those batteries
the energy used for rigs to drill oil is mindblowing.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/ajes.12336And it is not like current cars don't use batteries and toxic chemicals
How Toxic Is Your Car? | Trellis
The "new car smell" that has seeped into the public consciousness is the byproduct of poisonous chemicals used to manufacture automobiles. A new website lists the best and worst cars and urges automakers to make driving safer from the inside.
I expect future batteries to move away from lithium and already battery swapping is a thing in Asia but some Tesla are already prepared for it
https://www.tesla.com/videos/battery-swap-eventI remember watching that live. 8 years ago.
I really thought by now battery swap stations would be everywhere.
That would require substantial engineering standardisation. Even in common platforms there'd be considerable difficulty I'd imagine with all the connections and whether the battery pack was a stressed member.
Given chemistry, it seems to me that there won't be a great leap forward in range vs battery charge rate and life so the reality would be buy a car that fulfils 95% of your yearly needs and rent a larger capacity (range) vehicle or take more time to get to your destination or fly...
My understanding is the Chinese have done this
NIO has rivals as China’s EV and battery makers eye 1,000km range target
The distance would extend the top-end of Tesla’s Model Y Long Range version by two-thirds, if the solid-state batteries live up to expectations. That would be a game changer in China, the world’s biggest electric car market.
The last sentence I totally agree with. Electric cars are also I believe not so efficient on highways (no regen braking energy).
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@nostrildamus said in Electric Vehicles:
Electric cars are also I believe not so efficient on highways (no regen braking energy).
They're less efficient than in urban spaces, definitely.
Still far more efficient than a petrol vehicle in terms of realising potential energy in the fuel.
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@nta yes I am also now thinking will the govt let me buy an electric car that carries 1000 kilos (does towing count?) and writing it off as a trade vehicle
Can an electric car tow? Tesla owner puts his Model 3 to the test
In response to claims from on high that electric cars cannot tow, owner Peter McBurney puts his Model 3 to the test – with stunning results.
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@nostrildamus said in Electric Vehicles:
Electric cars are also I believe not so efficient on highways (no regen braking energy).
There's a bit of regen but it is mostly due to gearing. They have optimal ratios, so too slow (urban as @nta says) and you are wasting power, and likewise too fast.
The loss on highways is also due to higher speeds and aerodynamic drag factors. Assuming that it is of similar altitude of course. You will use more energy on a sustained climb, some of which is recoverable on the way back down, but you are just recovering some of what you spent so that won't matter whether it a highway or not.
Some of it is down to Drag = cl 1/2 ro v sqd s.
The coefficient of drag, and s will be the same for any given vehicle. Ro (air density) will be roughly the same on any given, day but velocity is squared so has a massive affect on drag and efficiency.I think that Porsche have a geared EV now that improves efficiency over a range of speeds and driving conditions to overcome some of that.
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@nostrildamus said in Electric Vehicles:
@nta yes I am also now thinking will the govt let me buy an electric car that carries 1000 kilos (does towing count?) and writing it off as a trade vehicle
Can an electric car tow? Tesla owner puts his Model 3 to the test
In response to claims from on high that electric cars cannot tow, owner Peter McBurney puts his Model 3 to the test – with stunning results.
Good article. EVs have reputation for being shit at towing due to the range reduction but a lot of that is the old "range anxiety" of ICE owners. Tesla made a point of it with the Model X marketing that it could tow successfully. Given the weight of EVs and the weight distribution between the vehicle and the trailer, they should actually tow really well (range issues aside).
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@snowy said in Electric Vehicles:
@nostrildamus said in Electric Vehicles:
@nta yes I am also now thinking will the govt let me buy an electric car that carries 1000 kilos (does towing count?) and writing it off as a trade vehicle
Can an electric car tow? Tesla owner puts his Model 3 to the test
In response to claims from on high that electric cars cannot tow, owner Peter McBurney puts his Model 3 to the test – with stunning results.
Good article. EVs have reputation for being shit at towing due to the range reduction but a lot of that is the old "range anxiety" of ICE owners. Tesla made a point of it with the Model X marketing that it could tow successfully. Given the weight of EVs and the weight distribution between the vehicle and the trailer, they should actually tow really well (range issues aside).
yes that article hints quite strongly they could perform better-higher torque and lower centre of gravity and more weight suggests to me they don't get pulled so jerkily as a higher, lighter ICE car.
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@nta said in Electric Vehicles:
@snowy additionally, nobody talks fuel efficiency of ICEV towing. The range of a petrol or diesel vehicle is drastically affected by load in the same way as EV.
I'm torn regards diesel. Much more comfortable drive in the hilly (NZ) countryside, great engines but crap fuel...(for the environment and health).
