Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final
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@mn5 Imran was quite a bit better at home than he was away.
Jeremy Coney's book provides some background to that!
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@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 Imran was quite a bit better at home than he was away.
Jeremy Coney's book provides some background to that!
He‘s from the subcontinent, this is not surprising.
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@mn5 At home he averaged 45 with the bat and 19 with the ball.
Away 33 with the bat 25 with the ball.
If only he could have taken his umpires with him...
@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 At home he averaged 45 with the bat and 19 with the ball.
Away 33 with the bat 25 with the ball.
If only he could have taken his umpires with him...
Still bloody good stats, not as skewed as others.
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Also, in the 80s, the allrounders usually weren't wicketkeeper-batsmen, and it's very rare to have a top class keeper-batsman and the more standard allrounders who bat and bowl at a high level at the same time.
It would be nice if CDG had a better bowling record but he is also backing up NZ's greatest trio ever. He mainly bowls first change apparently, and his average at 1st change is pretty solid comparatively - better than Wagner who is actually much better at 2nd change than 1st change.
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Also, in the 80s, the allrounders usually weren't wicketkeeper-batsmen, and it's very rare to have a top class keeper-batsman and the more standard allrounders who bat and bowl at a high level at the same time.
It would be nice if CDG had a better bowling record but he is also backing up NZ's greatest trio ever. He mainly bowls first change apparently, and his average at 1st change is pretty solid comparatively - better than Wagner who is actually much better at 2nd change than 1st change.
@godder said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Also, in the 80s, the allrounders usually weren't wicketkeeper-batsmen, and it's very rare to have a top class keeper-batsman and the more standard allrounders who bat and bowl at a high level at the same time.
It would be nice if CDG had a better bowling record but he is also backing up NZ's greatest trio ever. He mainly bowls first change apparently, and his average at 1st change is pretty solid comparatively - better than Wagner who is actually much better at 2nd change than 1st change.
How does he do in home tests vs overseas?
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@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Hard not to go past Beefy as one of the few true best ever Allrounders.
Even though he fell away his test record is incredible.102 Tests
14 Test 100's (to put that into context only 3 black cap batsmen have score more)
33.54 Average383 Test wickets
28.40 Average, which is almost identical to Southee's
27 5wi hauls
4 10wm haulsA 100 and 5 wickets in an innings 5 times.
Vs India in 1980 he scored 114 and took 6/58 & 7/48
For good measure he took 120 catches as well.
Also according to Martin Crowe's time playing alongside him at Somerset in the 80's, a night on the piss and coming home at 6am didnt effect his performances either.
I loved Beefy but he should have retired about 50 tests before he did. Imran was a better All Rounder because his standards never slipped.
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Siraj missing out in these conditions sucks, but Shami isn't that much of a downgrade either.
Conditions definitely favoring NZ and significantly at that. If this test was to be played anywhere else - Aus, SA, WI, I'd be feeling so much more confident about Indian chances. Asia obviously as well. But England and NZ are the 2 places where the conditions level things off for NZ.
If the ball is darting around and India end up 20/4, thats the ball game then.
That sort of collapse is NZ's best shot at winning this test. Outside of that, I'm not that worried.
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@mn5 Imran was quite a bit better at home than he was away.
Jeremy Coney's book provides some background to that!
@chris-b
I've personally met Mohinder Amarnath when I was a kid, and he had some stories to tell too!
One thing that was shocking to me, especially as a naive teenager, was when he shared the anecdote about how he was at the non-striker's end, and the 'home' umpire informed the Pakistani pace bowler that he was overstepping, and to just mind it. Didn't call the no-ball, just politely asked the bowler to mind the line. The bowler showered the umpire with a torrent of punjabi f-bombs, and told him to do his job while he does his!
And of course, the umpires allowed the Pakistani team to take the match ball into their dressing room during breaks, to do with as they please. The 80s were a very different time.
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@chris-b
I've personally met Mohinder Amarnath when I was a kid, and he had some stories to tell too!
One thing that was shocking to me, especially as a naive teenager, was when he shared the anecdote about how he was at the non-striker's end, and the 'home' umpire informed the Pakistani pace bowler that he was overstepping, and to just mind it. Didn't call the no-ball, just politely asked the bowler to mind the line. The bowler showered the umpire with a torrent of punjabi f-bombs, and told him to do his job while he does his!
And of course, the umpires allowed the Pakistani team to take the match ball into their dressing room during breaks, to do with as they please. The 80s were a very different time.
@newsjunkie Amarnath!!! Not many batsmen braver than him!!!
Coney devoted a whole chapter of his book to the goings on in this ODI in Pakistan - it's a very amusing story. Apparently Bryan Waddle concluded his commentary on the day by saying NZ 213/8; Pakistan 214/13.
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India announcing their playing 11 this early and with both spinners feels like a mind game. Almost if they are trying to push us to drop what has made us successful. The 4 seamer attack.
India can go with that bowling attack but I don’t think we can. -
India announcing their playing 11 this early and with both spinners feels like a mind game. Almost if they are trying to push us to drop what has made us successful. The 4 seamer attack.
India can go with that bowling attack but I don’t think we can.@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
India announcing their playing 11 this early and with both spinners feels like a mind game. Almost if they are trying to push us to drop what has made us successful. The 4 seamer attack.
India can go with that bowling attack but I don’t think we can.It’s an extremely strong team that they’ve named which is totally unsurprising.
With the exception of Gill who is unproven ( but averages 60 in first class cricket ! ) they’re all varying degrees of bloody good to superb.
But then again, our team is too, we have to remember that.
Potentially worrying for us is how vastly superior their spinners are.
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India announcing their playing 11 this early and with both spinners feels like a mind game. Almost if they are trying to push us to drop what has made us successful. The 4 seamer attack.
India can go with that bowling attack but I don’t think we can.@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Almost if they are trying to push us to drop what has made us successful. The 4 seamer attack.
India can go with that bowling attack but I don’t think we can.Yep. How much is that pitch really going to turn?
We have to play to our strengths, swing and seam. They will play to theirs with spin. I would say that both batting lineups could struggle a bit with the quality of both sides bowling strengths.
How's the weather, he says hoping that forecasts are wrong and he can watch cricket tonight.
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@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Almost if they are trying to push us to drop what has made us successful. The 4 seamer attack.
India can go with that bowling attack but I don’t think we can.Yep. How much is that pitch really going to turn?
We have to play to our strengths, swing and seam. They will play to theirs with spin. I would say that both batting lineups could struggle a bit with the quality of both sides bowling strengths.
How's the weather, he says hoping that forecasts are wrong and he can watch cricket tonight.
@snowy said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Almost if they are trying to push us to drop what has made us successful. The 4 seamer attack.
India can go with that bowling attack but I don’t think we can.Yep. How much is that pitch really going to turn?
We have to play to our strengths, swing and seam. They will play to theirs with spin. I would say that both batting lineups could struggle a bit with the quality of both sides bowling strengths.
How's the weather, he says hoping that forecasts are wrong and he can watch cricket tonight.
Sounds like the 1st day will be a wash out, may not matter in the end as they will have a 6th day to make up for any time lost.
Think it would have been better if Ajaz finished with 0/233 from that 2nd test. Much easier to have ignore him. -
@snowy said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Almost if they are trying to push us to drop what has made us successful. The 4 seamer attack.
India can go with that bowling attack but I don’t think we can.Yep. How much is that pitch really going to turn?
We have to play to our strengths, swing and seam. They will play to theirs with spin. I would say that both batting lineups could struggle a bit with the quality of both sides bowling strengths.
How's the weather, he says hoping that forecasts are wrong and he can watch cricket tonight.
Sounds like the 1st day will be a wash out, may not matter in the end as they will have a 6th day to make up for any time lost.
Think it would have been better if Ajaz finished with 0/233 from that 2nd test. Much easier to have ignore him.@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@snowy said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Almost if they are trying to push us to drop what has made us successful. The 4 seamer attack.
India can go with that bowling attack but I don’t think we can.Yep. How much is that pitch really going to turn?
We have to play to our strengths, swing and seam. They will play to theirs with spin. I would say that both batting lineups could struggle a bit with the quality of both sides bowling strengths.
How's the weather, he says hoping that forecasts are wrong and he can watch cricket tonight.
Sounds like the 1st day will be a wash out, may not matter in the end as they will have a 6th day to make up for any time lost.
Think it would have been better if Ajaz finished with 0/233 from that 2nd test. Much easier to have ignore him.Yeah Ajaz has done enough ( as I’ve mentioned before the bar couldn’t have been set lower ) to make the selectors realise he COULD be a bit of a weapon in the right conditions.
It’s gonna be fascinating to see if he gets the nod.
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If there's rain and cloud around for most of the test, and it's going to be on/off again, I almost wonder whether to select Young instead of CDG/Patel, have extra cover with the bat for the swinging ball, and trust four seamers to make the most of the cloud and damp. A third opener almost...
- Latham
- Conway
- Young
- Williamson
- Taylor
- Nicholls
- Watling
- Jamieson
- Wagner
- Southee
- Boult
Though I think they'll read similar things into the pitch conditions/weather forecast and go with CDG at 7 instead. I'm a big fan of Patel, but I think the weather may count him out. I suppose we'll know in about 11 hours...
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If there's rain and cloud around for most of the test, and it's going to be on/off again, I almost wonder whether to select Young instead of CDG/Patel, have extra cover with the bat for the swinging ball, and trust four seamers to make the most of the cloud and damp. A third opener almost...
- Latham
- Conway
- Young
- Williamson
- Taylor
- Nicholls
- Watling
- Jamieson
- Wagner
- Southee
- Boult
Though I think they'll read similar things into the pitch conditions/weather forecast and go with CDG at 7 instead. I'm a big fan of Patel, but I think the weather may count him out. I suppose we'll know in about 11 hours...
@donsteppa that's my team right there. Could fiddle the top order around 3/4 a bit, but fundamentally a good choice to play Young.
My mate had the interesting suggestion for future to play the final, but only award a winner if there is a result... drive both sides to super attacking cricket. Not sure I like it, but it could make the game really different
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@donsteppa that's my team right there. Could fiddle the top order around 3/4 a bit, but fundamentally a good choice to play Young.
My mate had the interesting suggestion for future to play the final, but only award a winner if there is a result... drive both sides to super attacking cricket. Not sure I like it, but it could make the game really different
@nzzp said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@donsteppa that's my team right there. Could fiddle the top order around 3/4 a bit, but fundamentally a good choice to play Young.
My mate had the interesting suggestion for future to play the final, but only award a winner if there is a result... drive both sides to super attacking cricket. Not sure I like it, but it could make the game really different
If that team is selected ( which I wouldn’t be averse to ) I doubt Young would bat three. He’d be six at best.
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@donsteppa that's my team right there. Could fiddle the top order around 3/4 a bit, but fundamentally a good choice to play Young.
My mate had the interesting suggestion for future to play the final, but only award a winner if there is a result... drive both sides to super attacking cricket. Not sure I like it, but it could make the game really different
@nzzp said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@donsteppa that's my team right there. Could fiddle the top order around 3/4 a bit, but fundamentally a good choice to play Young.
My mate had the interesting suggestion for future to play the final, but only award a winner if there is a result... drive both sides to super attacking cricket. Not sure I like it, but it could make the game really different
One thing I hope everyone agrees on is that test cricket must have a WTC type points system on every test match in the future. We can't have the damp squib that was the lords test as a desirable outcome
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@nzzp said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@donsteppa that's my team right there. Could fiddle the top order around 3/4 a bit, but fundamentally a good choice to play Young.
My mate had the interesting suggestion for future to play the final, but only award a winner if there is a result... drive both sides to super attacking cricket. Not sure I like it, but it could make the game really different
If that team is selected ( which I wouldn’t be averse to ) I doubt Young would bat three. He’d be six at best.
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@nzzp said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@donsteppa that's my team right there. Could fiddle the top order around 3/4 a bit, but fundamentally a good choice to play Young.
My mate had the interesting suggestion for future to play the final, but only award a winner if there is a result... drive both sides to super attacking cricket. Not sure I like it, but it could make the game really different
If that team is selected ( which I wouldn’t be averse to ) I doubt Young would bat three. He’d be six at best.
If they went with that team I'd bat him in the top three given his early summer County experience this year with Durham with the Duke ball in sometimes good and sometimes mud weather. I could see him being chosen at six to avoid shuffling the middle order.... but this looks like being one of those games where lots of things are out of the ordinary so maybe a shuffle is okay.
With potentially half the test being lost to rain, I wonder if one or both teams will think about batting for the draw as a way of sharing the title. Looks like the sort of weather where it will be hard to win a Test, but easy to lose it if either team collapses within a session early on.
